Explain Your Religious Views or Lack Thereof

[The Grey Wolf]

Yes.

Grave and Blasveck. They claim because God is ''magical'' means any logical argument against him is invalid. Even though I point out, they have no evidence for God and are using fallacious reasoning(special pleading). Until they have a good justification, why I should give God special exemption, I ain't going to.

God is magical? Do tell.

[Neo Rome Republic]

Grave and Blasveck. They claim because God is ''magical'' means any logical argument against him is invalid. Even though I point out, they have no evidence for God and are using fallacious reasoning(special pleading). Until they have a good justification, why I should give God special exemption, I ain't going to.

All Grave and I were saying was that you kept trying to apply the laws of the universe to God, when there is no way that you can do that, because a God exists outside of our universe.

Not once did neither of us claim that God was exempt from logic.

Stop misrepresenting us.

It's simply ignorant.

Then how can logic apply to him? Again stop with the special pleading. You have no justification for it. I wasn't saying God is bound to the laws of the universe. Simply that if he did exist, he could not create the universe.

[Mavorpen]

Grave and Blasveck. They claim because God is ''magical'' means any logical argument against him is invalid. Even though I point out, they have no evidence for God and are using fallacious reasoning(special pleading). Until they have a good justification, why I should give God special exemption, I ain't going to.

All Grave and I were saying was that you kept trying to apply the laws of the universe to God, when there is no way that you can do that, because a God exists outside of our universe.

Not once did neither of us claim that God was exempt from logic.

Stop misrepresenting us.

It's simply ignorant.

The sad part is that I simply skimmed through ONE page and I understood what was happening.

[Mavorpen]

All Grave and I were saying was that you kept trying to apply the laws of the universe to God, when there is no way that you can do that, because a God exists outside of our universe.

Not once did neither of us claim that God was exempt from logic.

Stop misrepresenting us.

It's simply ignorant.

Then how can logic apply to him? Again stop with the special pleading. You have no justification for it.

Applying the laws of the universe=/=applying logic to reach a conclusion.

Seriously, why do you think the two are the same? They aren't.

[Blasveck]

All Grave and I were saying was that you kept trying to apply the laws of the universe to God, when there is no way that you can do that, because a God exists outside of our universe.

Not once did neither of us claim that God was exempt from logic.

Stop misrepresenting us.

It's simply ignorant.

Then how can logic apply to him? Again stop with the special pleading. You have no justification for it.

What does logic have to do with God existing outside the universe?

You're not making sense.

[Neo Rome Republic]

Then how can logic apply to him? Again stop with the special pleading. You have no justification for it.

What does logic have to do with God existing outside the universe?

You're not making sense.

Could logically could not create a universe, because he would not have any time to ''create'' it. You need time to have things like ''cause and effect'' and change. God could not create anything if there is no time to create it. It logically makes no sense, how a timeless being could ''cause'' anything.

[Blasveck]

What does logic have to do with God existing outside the universe?

You're not making sense.

Could logically could not create a universe because he would not have any time to ''create'' it. You need time to have things like ''cause and effect'' and change. God could not create anything if there is no time to create it. It logically makes no sense, how a timeless being could ''cause'' anything.

We keep going in circles....

Time and space apply in our universe.

God exists outside the universe.

Ergo, time and space do not apply to God.

This is really the last time that I want to repeat this.

[Mavorpen]

What does logic have to do with God existing outside the universe?

You're not making sense.

Could logically could not create a universe because he would not have any time to ''create'' it. You need time to have things like ''cause and effect'' and change. God could not create anything if there is no time to create it. It logically makes no sense, how a timeless being could ''cause'' anything.

What the fuck? Of fucking course you can. Time is a product of the universe and has utterly no influence on whether it can be created or not.

[Neo Rome Republic]

Could logically could not create a universe because he would not have any time to ''create'' it. You need time to have things like ''cause and effect'' and change. God could not create anything if there is no time to create it. It logically makes no sense, how a timeless being could ''cause'' anything.

We keep going in circles....

Time and space apply in our universe.

God exists outside the universe.

Ergo, time and space do not apply to God.

This is really the last time that I want to repeat this.

Then how could he cause anything? If he has no ''time'' to cause it to exist? You need ''time'' to do that.

[Grave_n_idle]

You said: 'You need things like cause and effect to have causes and effects" - which is what I just commented on.

So your all-caps 'wrong' was, well - wrong.

They do which is why our universe...

The limitations of IN our universe have nothing to do with what may have gone before.

[Neo Rome Republic]

Could logically could not create a universe because he would not have any time to ''create'' it. You need time to have things like ''cause and effect'' and change. God could not create anything if there is no time to create it. It logically makes no sense, how a timeless being could ''cause'' anything.

What the fuck? Of fucking course you can. Time is a product of the universe and has utterly no influence on whether it can be created or not.

But to have things like ''cause and effect'' you need time?

[Grave_n_idle]

God doesn't follow the rules of our universe.

Why aren you understanding this?

God doesn't have a cause and effect because the inherent nature of God doesn't follow the rules.

Saying God does follow the rules is being willfully ignorant.

If he does not have time then he couldn't have created our universe, since he isn't able to ''cause'' anything Even if he does exist..

You keee saying this, and people keep explaining why it's wrong.

[Mavorpen]

We keep going in circles....

Time and space apply in our universe.

God exists outside the universe.

Ergo, time and space do not apply to God.

This is really the last time that I want to repeat this.

Then how could he cause anything? If he has no ''time'' to cause it to exist? You need ''time'' to do that.

No you don't. Are you seriously pulling physical laws out of your ass now?

[Neo Rome Republic]

If he does not have time then he couldn't have created our universe, since he isn't able to ''cause'' anything Even if he does exist..

You keee saying this, and people keep explaining why it's wrong.

How? ''Cause and effect'' are things that exist within time? In order to have a cause you need time ''outside'' the universe.

[Grave_n_idle]

The spoon exists within our universe, therefore, it can't be magical.

God exists outside our universe, therefore, it can be magical.

Get the difference?

My spoon exists both inside and outside the universe. Now give my spoon the same exemption you gave ''God''.

The component of your spoon that exists outside the universe could have 'magical' powers, if it exists.

[Neo Rome Republic]

Then how could he cause anything? If he has no ''time'' to cause it to exist? You need ''time'' to do that.

No you don't. Are you seriously pulling physical laws out of your ass now?

How don't you?

[Mavorpen]

What the fuck? Of fucking course you can. Time is a product of the universe and has utterly no influence on whether it can be created or not.

But to have things like ''cause and effect'' you need time?

No you don't. By all means, prove that you need time to create something that produces time.

[Blasveck]

We keep going in circles....

Time and space apply in our universe.

God exists outside the universe.

Ergo, time and space do not apply to God.

This is really the last time that I want to repeat this.

Then how could he cause anything? If he has no ''time'' to cause it to exist? You need ''time'' to do that.

Because he's God. God doesn't follow the rules of our universe. God doesn't need time to create anything. A God simply is, does, and exists.

[Mavorpen]

No you don't. Are you seriously pulling physical laws out of your ass now?

How don't you?

Because physical laws don't apply outside of the universe. It's YOUR burden of proof to demonstrate that they do.

[Grave_n_idle]

So you can prove that "God" doesn't follow the rules of the universe?

You should also know, I have a ''magical'' spoon that exists both inside and outside the universe, and is therefore immune to all it's laws. Would you consider my reasoning valid?

Only part of it could be immune to the laws.

(and that's if such immunity isn't granted by sentience).

[Grave_n_idle]

I think the point is to prove that the specific argument doesn't work, not to prove that God exists.

The "point" seems to be to make statements presenting assumptions as fact.

The point is that Neo thinks he can 'prove' that god doesn't exist, if he can prove that the universe is infinite.

[Neo Rome Republic]

How don't you?

Because physical laws don't apply outside of the universe. It's YOUR burden of proof to demonstrate that they do.

But ''cause'' and ''effect'' is something that is part of our universe? How can one make anything without time, if there is no time to make it?

[Neo Rome Republic]

The "point" seems to be to make statements presenting assumptions as fact.

The point is that Neo thinks he can 'prove' that god doesn't exist, if he can prove that the universe is infinite.

Well actually we've gotten past that argument. We're on a different topic, now.

[Grave_n_idle]

It is valid. The probability of it is so low as to effectively be zero. But still technically valid.

How? How is that not special pleading? If I could claim magical exemption from logic, with any made-up object, and it's valid without proof.

Actually, you've just illustrated why your comparison is flawed - the spoon is man-made.

[Neo Rome Republic]

How? How is that not special pleading? If I could claim magical exemption from logic, with any made-up object, and it's valid without proof.

Actually, you've just illustrated why your comparison is flawed - the spoon is man-made.

God is a man-made concept.