Explain Your Religious Views or Lack Thereof

[The Grey Wolf]

"I want him to answer the question." Brings to mind this: .

It does? Wow, how cynical are you?
If I wanted to bring that to mind, I'd have used it.

I am a very cynical person. Blame natural selection,

[Dyakovo]

Wrong. Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity or deities.

These two definitions are synonymous.

No, they really aren't.

[Divair]

Wrong. Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity or deities.

These two definitions are synonymous.

Not at all.

[With Teeth]

I'm an atheist who believes that gods don't exist. I don't care about semantics, but I've always wondered why defining atheism as a lack of belief in god is useful. It's a description of a psychological state, and actually says nothing about the existence of god. But if that's what you think, call yourself an atheist.

[Tlaceceyaya]

I'm an atheist who believes that gods don't exist. I don't care about semantics, but I've always wondered why defining atheism as a lack of belief in god is useful. It's a description of a psychological state, and actually says nothing about the existence of god. But if that's what you think, call yourself an atheist.

To believe in something has more than one meaning.
One meaning is to think that something will be able to do something, as in "I believe in Bob."
But the meaning with regards to atheism is more like "I think that there exist magical leprechauns which eat computer cookies in order to hard drive their gigabytes."

[With Teeth]

I'm an atheist who believes that gods don't exist. I don't care about semantics, but I've always wondered why defining atheism as a lack of belief in god is useful. It's a description of a psychological state, and actually says nothing about the existence of god. But if that's what you think, call yourself an atheist.

To believe in something has more than one meaning.
One meaning is to think that something will be able to do something, as in "I believe in Bob."
But the meaning with regards to atheism is more like "I think that there exist magical leprechauns which eat computer cookies in order to hard drive their gigabytes."

I don't see how this was relevant, but ok.

[Tlaceceyaya]

To believe in something has more than one meaning.
One meaning is to think that something will be able to do something, as in "I believe in Bob."
But the meaning with regards to atheism is more like "I think that there exist magical leprechauns which eat computer cookies in order to hard drive their gigabytes."

I don't see how this was relevant, but ok.

You said, and I quote:

and actually says nothing about the existence of god

[With Teeth]

I don't see how this was relevant, but ok.

You said, and I quote:

and actually says nothing about the existence of god

I happen to know what my posts say.

[Tlaceceyaya]

You said, and I quote:

I happen to know what my posts say.

Then you should see how it was relevant. You claimed that atheism being defined as not believing in god said nothing about the existence of god. I explained that it does.

[Grave_n_idle]

I'm an atheist who believes that gods don't exist. I don't care about semantics, but I've always wondered why defining atheism as a lack of belief in god is useful. It's a description of a psychological state, and actually says nothing about the existence of god. But if that's what you think, call yourself an atheist.

I'm an atheist that doesn't believe that gods don't exist.

I just don't believe that they do.

You have an actual belief - that there's an absence of gods. This is a 'gnostic' position.

I lack that belief, just as I lack beliefs about the existence of a god or gods.

You don't see how that's useful - but it's helpful to me. I find any claims to certainty about 'gods' to be flawed (whether believing they DO exist, or that they DON'T), because I don't think it's possible to objectively know. Mine is an 'agnostic' position.

This appears to be quite a big difference between your paradigm and mine.

[With Teeth]

I happen to know what my posts say.

Then you should see how it was relevant. You claimed that atheism being defined as not believing in god said nothing about the existence of god. I explained that it does.

Considering that 1) I was not talking about belief in god as in the first definition and 2) I am actually referring to propositional content, your post was irrelevant.

[With Teeth]

I'm an atheist who believes that gods don't exist. I don't care about semantics, but I've always wondered why defining atheism as a lack of belief in god is useful. It's a description of a psychological state, and actually says nothing about the existence of god. But if that's what you think, call yourself an atheist.

I'm an atheist that doesn't believe that gods don't exist.

I just don't believe that they do.

You have an actual belief - that there's an absence of gods. This is a 'gnostic' position.

I lack that belief, just as I lack beliefs about the existence of a god or gods.

You don't see how that's useful - but it's helpful to me. I find any claims to certainty about 'gods' to be flawed (whether believing they DO exist, or that they DON'T), because I don't think it's possible to objectively know. Mine is an 'agnostic' position.

This appears to be quite a big difference between your paradigm and mine.

I don't see how believing that god doesn't exist entails certainty that he doesn't exist. I form my beliefs around what is probable and improbable. God falls under the latter. Therefore, I don't believe in god. This doesn't require me to have certainty about his non-existence.

I think the atheism you have is just a statement about your feelings: ''I lack belief in the existence of gods'. It has no implications on whether gods actually exists or not. In philosophical terms, it doesn't have any propositional content. It does not entail that god does not exist or that god exists. It's just a descriptive statement about the way you feel. If you think that's useful, then go for it. I couldn't care less and I'm not trying to degrade it or anything. I'm just stating why I don't believe in that type of atheism.

[Neo Rome Republic]

I'm an atheist that doesn't believe that gods don't exist.

I just don't believe that they do.

You have an actual belief - that there's an absence of gods. This is a 'gnostic' position.

I lack that belief, just as I lack beliefs about the existence of a god or gods.

You don't see how that's useful - but it's helpful to me. I find any claims to certainty about 'gods' to be flawed (whether believing they DO exist, or that they DON'T), because I don't think it's possible to objectively know. Mine is an 'agnostic' position.

This appears to be quite a big difference between your paradigm and mine.

I don't see how believing that god doesn't exist entails certainty that he doesn't exist. I form my beliefs around what is probable and improbable. God falls under the latter. Therefore, I don't believe in god. This doesn't require me to have certainty about his non-existence.

I think the atheism you have is just a statement about your feelings: ''I lack belief in the existence of gods'. It has no implications on whether gods actually exists or not. In philosophical terms, it doesn't have any propositional content. It does not entail that god does not exist or that god exists. It's just a descriptive statement about the way you feel. If you think that's useful, then go for it. I couldn't care less and I'm not trying to degrade it or anything. I'm just stating why I don't believe in that type of atheism.

Thank you!!! That annoying misconception about an Atheist having to be a 100% certain to say, ''I don't believe in God's existence'' or ''I believe God does not exist'' really gets on my nerves.

[North Yakistan]

To use the big words I'm a:
Neo-Platonic folkish Germanic pagan with a strong devotion to Ullr and a lot of Panthiestic tendencies.


To put that in laymans terms I believe we are all part of one giant Panthiestic god, that religious mythology is symbolic, and that the various people's of the world form symbiotic relationships with various dietys. As such I worship the Germanic pantheon of my ancestors, particularly Ullr the god of skiing and hunting. However I do not believe they are the only gods, they are simply my gods.

[Grave_n_idle]

I don't see how believing that god doesn't exist entails certainty that he doesn't exist.

Because if you didn't 'know' that God didn't exist, then you wouldn't have a belief that he didn't - you'd have a lac of belief that he did.

We'll come back to that in a minute or two.

I form my beliefs around what is probable and improbable. God falls under the latter. Therefore, I don't believe in god. This doesn't require me to have certainty about his non-existence.

Actually, you see how you just changed your own phrasing?

"Therefore, I don't believe in god..."

See, you're now saying the same thing as me.

I think the atheism you have is just a statement about your feelings: ''I lack belief in the existence of gods'. It has no implications on whether gods actually exists or not.

Well, obviously - you think God really does exist just because the majority of people are theists?

The delineations of theist/atheist all absolutely only refer to your belief - NONE of them have ANY implications on whether god actually objectively exists.

In philosophical terms, it doesn't have any propositional content. It does not entail that god does not exist or that god exists. It's just a descriptive statement about the way you feel. If you think that's useful, then go for it. I couldn't care less and I'm not trying to degrade it or anything. I'm just stating why I don't believe in that type of atheism.

The irony is, you've said in this reply that that IS the kind of Atheism you have. You evaluated the probabilities and found god less likely, and you say you're not certain. You actually have a lack of belief - not a belief of lack.

You're claiming you don't believe in the kind of atheism you, yourself, display.

[Grave_n_idle]

I don't see how believing that god doesn't exist entails certainty that he doesn't exist. I form my beliefs around what is probable and improbable. God falls under the latter. Therefore, I don't believe in god. This doesn't require me to have certainty about his non-existence.

I think the atheism you have is just a statement about your feelings: ''I lack belief in the existence of gods'. It has no implications on whether gods actually exists or not. In philosophical terms, it doesn't have any propositional content. It does not entail that god does not exist or that god exists. It's just a descriptive statement about the way you feel. If you think that's useful, then go for it. I couldn't care less and I'm not trying to degrade it or anything. I'm just stating why I don't believe in that type of atheism.

Thank you!!! That annoying misconception about an Atheist having to be a 100% certain to say, ''I don't believe in God's existence'' or ''I believe God does not exist'' really gets on my nerves.

You don't have to be 100% certain to say "I don't believe in God's existence", but you DO have to 'know' that God doesn't exist to make the statement "I believe God does not exist".

[Bottle]

I'm an atheist who believes that gods don't exist. I don't care about semantics, but I've always wondered why defining atheism as a lack of belief in god is useful. It's a description of a psychological state, and actually says nothing about the existence of god. But if that's what you think, call yourself an atheist.

I'm an atheist that doesn't believe that gods don't exist.

I just don't believe that they do.

You have an actual belief - that there's an absence of gods. This is a 'gnostic' position.

I lack that belief, just as I lack beliefs about the existence of a god or gods.

You don't see how that's useful - but it's helpful to me. I find any claims to certainty about 'gods' to be flawed (whether believing they DO exist, or that they DON'T), because I don't think it's possible to objectively know. Mine is an 'agnostic' position.

This appears to be quite a big difference between your paradigm and mine.

I find that, in general, I have more in common with agnostic theists than I have with atheists who fail to grasp the nature (or importance) of agnosticism.

[Neo Rome Republic]

Thank you!!! That annoying misconception about an Atheist having to be a 100% certain to say, ''I don't believe in God's existence'' or ''I believe God does not exist'' really gets on my nerves.

You don't have to be 100% certain to say "I don't believe in God's existence", but you DO have to 'know' that God doesn't exist to make the statement "I believe God does not exist".

Yes just like saying ''I believe Romney will win the election'' is the same as saying ''I KNOW Romney will win the election''

[Grave_n_idle]

You don't have to be 100% certain to say "I don't believe in God's existence", but you DO have to 'know' that God doesn't exist to make the statement "I believe God does not exist".

Yes just like saying ''I believe Romney will win the election'' is the same as saying ''I KNOW Romney will win the election''

'Belief' and 'knowledge' have more daylight between them in issues where objective measurement is possible.

[Neo Rome Republic]

Yes just like saying ''I believe Romney will win the election'' is the same as saying ''I KNOW Romney will win the election''

'Belief' and 'knowledge' have more daylight between them in issues where objective measurement is possible.

I believe(think) God does not exist because I consider his existence logically improbable, which I've stated before. I wouldn't say I KNOW because we haven't yet found the origin of the universe, that leaves no room for God's existence. If I found out the universe existence was eternal then I'd say, I KNOW he doesn't exist. But so far I only believe(think) or feel very strongly that he doesn't, based on the evidence I've seen. Because the evidence isn't conclusive or at least, not yet.

[Grave_n_idle]

'Belief' and 'knowledge' have more daylight between them in issues where objective measurement is possible.

I believe(think) God does not exist because I consider his existence logically improbable, which I've stated before. I wouldn't say I KNOW because we haven't yet found the origin of the universe, that leaves no room for God's existence. If I found out the universe existence was eternal then I'd say, I KNOW he doesn't exist. But so far I only believe(think) or feel very strongly that he doesn't, based on the evidence I've seen. Because the evidence isn't conclusive or at least, not yet.

If the universe could be eternal, so could be god. I don't find your logic convincing, and I am an atheist.

If you lack belief in a god, but you acknowledge there COULD be one because it's just not possible to know (yet?)... then you're an agnostic atheist like me.

[Neo Rome Republic]

I believe(think) God does not exist because I consider his existence logically improbable, which I've stated before. I wouldn't say I KNOW because we haven't yet found the origin of the universe, that leaves no room for God's existence. If I found out the universe existence was eternal then I'd say, I KNOW he doesn't exist. But so far I only believe(think) or feel very strongly that he doesn't, based on the evidence I've seen. Because the evidence isn't conclusive or at least, not yet.

If the universe could be eternal, so could be god. I don't find your logic convincing, and I am an atheist.

If you lack belief in a god, but you acknowledge there COULD be one because it's just not possible to know (yet?)... then you're an agnostic atheist like me.

I meant if the universe had no beginning and proven to exist forever(which it hasn't). I really don't care what ''kind'' of Atheist you think I am. If you want to call me an ''agnostic atheist'', I really don't care. I still believe God does not exist, and deny his existence.

[Grave_n_idle]

I meant if the universe had no beginning and proven to exist forever(which it hasn't).

Then God could also have no beginning and exist forever.

I'm not seeing any logic, there.

I really don't care what ''kind'' of Atheist you think I am.

Neither do I. I honestly don't care, at all, what kind of atheist you are.

If you want to call me an ''agnostic atheist'', I really don't care. I still believe God does not exist, and deny his existence.

Except that's not what you've been arguing. You said: "I believe(think) God does not exist because I consider his existence logically improbable... I wouldn't say I KNOW because we haven't yet found the origin of the universe... But so far I only believe(think) or feel very strongly that he doesn't, based on the evidence I've seen. Because the evidence isn't conclusive or at least, not yet."

You've said that you base your disbelief on a lack of evidence, on the 'probability', and admit that that evidence isn't yet conclusive.

You, yourself, are describing yourself as an agnostic atheist, and then railing against me for pointing out to you the implications of your own arguments. I don't know who you think you're trying to convince.

[Neo Rome Republic]

I meant if the universe had no beginning and proven to exist forever(which it hasn't).

Then God could also have no beginning and exist forever.

I'm not seeing any logic, there.

I really don't care what ''kind'' of Atheist you think I am.

Neither do I. I honestly don't care, at all, what kind of atheist you are.

If you want to call me an ''agnostic atheist'', I really don't care. I still believe God does not exist, and deny his existence.

Except that's not what you've been arguing. You said: "I believe(think) God does not exist because I consider his existence logically improbable... I wouldn't say I KNOW because we haven't yet found the origin of the universe... But so far I only believe(think) or feel very strongly that he doesn't, based on the evidence I've seen. Because the evidence isn't conclusive or at least, not yet."

You've said that you base your disbelief on a lack of evidence, on the 'probability', and admit that that evidence isn't yet conclusive.

You, yourself, are describing yourself as an agnostic atheist, and then railing against me for pointing out to you the implications of your own arguments. I don't know who you think you're trying to convince.

No if the universe is eternal it would have no creator or designer, therefore God by default would not exist. I don't base it on an absence of evidence, merely that the evidence isn't conclusive.

[Grave_n_idle]

No if the universe is eternal it would have no creator or designer, therefore God by default would not exist.

Maybe your interpretation of 'god' is wrong, and he doesn't need to have created or designed the universe?

Or maybe he created and designed a universe that is eternal, because he's god and he can do things like that.