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Explain Your Religious Views or Lack Thereof

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Torcularis Septentrionalis
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Postby Torcularis Septentrionalis » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:06 pm

The Sovietyeto wrote:I don't think anyone has opened this can of worms yet.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus

The "Problem of Evil" argument makes two assumptions:
1. That God is here to serve us;
2. That there cannot be a lesson learned in Evil that God wishes for us to learn.

“God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world.”
The Andromeda Islands wrote:This! Is! A! Bad! Idea!
Furious Grandmothers wrote:Why are you talking about murder when we are talking about abortion? Murdering a fetus is impossible. It's like smelling an echo. You're not making sense.



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Seperates
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Postby Seperates » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:06 pm

Blasveck wrote:
The Sovietyeto wrote:I don't think anyone has opened this can of worms yet.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus


"IT'S ALL A TEST."

That's the answer that I've heard.

I reply with, what is he testing for then? A test requires that there are results needed for something. One does not run tests to run tests.
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

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The Silence of Night
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Postby The Silence of Night » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:06 pm

Blasveck wrote:
The Sovietyeto wrote:I don't think anyone has opened this can of worms yet.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus


"IT'S ALL A TEST."

That's the answer that I've heard.

And what reason is there that god would test us? Wouldn't he want the most people possible to get into heaven, since he loves us and all that jazz?
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Your test scores indicate that you are an open-minded ultra-progressive; this is the political profile one might associate with a journalist. It appears that you are skeptical towards religion, and have a balanced attitude towards humanity in general.

Your attitudes towards economics appear neither committedly capitalist nor socialist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as a liberal.

To round out the picture you appear to be, political preference aside, a sensible realistic egalitarian with several strong convictions.
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Naretion
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Postby Naretion » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:06 pm

I "lack a religion" because religion has no effect on my life.
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Ermiopa
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Postby Ermiopa » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:06 pm

Seperates wrote:
Ermiopa wrote:Its common curtesy to try to not disrespect religion through mockery, even if you are argueing against it. It is also common curtesy not to disrespect atheism through mockery, even if you are argueing against it.

If you choose to mock us for believing, despite not hurting anyone for it, then so be it. But just don't expect people to enjoy your company if you say things like that, even to make a point.

Mock atheism then, I don't fucking care.

Oh, look at the silly man who doesn't believe in a supernatural deity. Guess what? That's it. That's all you have. Because that's all that atheism is. There is no code, there is no guideline, there is nothing else. I don't believe in atheism. It's merely a result.

Don't bullshit me with this respect thing. I'm not mocking you for believing. I'm mocking you for asking for respect simply because you believe. Respect doesn't work that way.

I'm not asking for respect, I'm simply asking that you don't disrespect me, or my religion. Because, by disrespecting my religion, you disrespect me. Its like if you disrespect my mom, you disrespect me.

Oh, and its not that hard to mock atheism.

How atheists think the world was created:
A bunch of nothing and even more nothing collided into a big explosion with created something which started expanding in even more of that something which created the earth.

Its easy to make anything sound ridiculously stupid.
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Blasveck
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Postby Blasveck » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:07 pm

Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:
The Sovietyeto wrote:I don't think anyone has opened this can of worms yet.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus

The "Problem of Evil" argument makes two assumptions:
1. That God is here to serve us;
2. That there cannot be a lesson learned in Evil that God wishes for us to learn.

“God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world.”


2. How can you truly know Good if you never know what Evil is like?
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Furious Grandmothers
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Postby Furious Grandmothers » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:07 pm

The Sovietyeto wrote:I don't think anyone has opened this can of worms yet.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus

You don't think anyone has? A forum search reveals 385 opened cans of worms or thereabouts (some clones, some false positives, IDGAF).
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Menassa
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Postby Menassa » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:07 pm

The Sovietyeto wrote:I don't think anyone has opened this can of worms yet.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus

And so... what's so bad if he's malevolent...
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Ermiopa
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Postby Ermiopa » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:07 pm

Seperates wrote:
Blasveck wrote:
"IT'S ALL A TEST."

That's the answer that I've heard.

I reply with, what is he testing for then? A test requires that there are results needed for something. One does not run tests to run tests.

He is testing us to see if we are good. He only wants those who are good in his perfect world because those who are bad and evil would ruin it for everyone.
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Torcularis Septentrionalis
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Postby Torcularis Septentrionalis » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:07 pm

Ermiopa wrote:
Seperates wrote:Mock atheism then, I don't fucking care.

Oh, look at the silly man who doesn't believe in a supernatural deity. Guess what? That's it. That's all you have. Because that's all that atheism is. There is no code, there is no guideline, there is nothing else. I don't believe in atheism. It's merely a result.

Don't bullshit me with this respect thing. I'm not mocking you for believing. I'm mocking you for asking for respect simply because you believe. Respect doesn't work that way.

I'm not asking for respect, I'm simply asking that you don't disrespect me, or my religion. Because, by disrespecting my religion, you disrespect me. Its like if you disrespect my mom, you disrespect me.

Oh, and its not that hard to mock atheism.

How atheists think the world was created:
A bunch of nothing and even more nothing collided into a big explosion with created something which started expanding in even more of that something which created the earth.

Its easy to make anything sound ridiculously stupid.

plz don't mutilate the BBT like that.
Just don't.
In fact until you take a few higher up physics courses on the matter don't even try.
The Andromeda Islands wrote:This! Is! A! Bad! Idea!
Furious Grandmothers wrote:Why are you talking about murder when we are talking about abortion? Murdering a fetus is impossible. It's like smelling an echo. You're not making sense.



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Blasveck
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Postby Blasveck » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:08 pm

Seperates wrote:
Blasveck wrote:
"IT'S ALL A TEST."

That's the answer that I've heard.

I reply with, what is he testing for then? A test requires that there are results needed for something. One does not run tests to run tests.


A test, to make us better people, and to see if we are worthy of being in Heaven.
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Tlaceceyaya
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Postby Tlaceceyaya » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:08 pm

Ermiopa wrote:
Seperates wrote:I reply with, what is he testing for then? A test requires that there are results needed for something. One does not run tests to run tests.

He is testing us to see if we are good. He only wants those who are good in his perfect world because those who are bad and evil would ruin it for everyone.

Then why not make us all good?
Why demand rejection of evidence?
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The Silence of Night
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Postby The Silence of Night » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:08 pm

Ermiopa wrote:
Seperates wrote:Mock atheism then, I don't fucking care.

Oh, look at the silly man who doesn't believe in a supernatural deity. Guess what? That's it. That's all you have. Because that's all that atheism is. There is no code, there is no guideline, there is nothing else. I don't believe in atheism. It's merely a result.

Don't bullshit me with this respect thing. I'm not mocking you for believing. I'm mocking you for asking for respect simply because you believe. Respect doesn't work that way.

I'm not asking for respect, I'm simply asking that you don't disrespect me, or my religion. Because, by disrespecting my religion, you disrespect me. Its like if you disrespect my mom, you disrespect me.

Oh, and its not that hard to mock atheism.

How atheists think the world was created:
A bunch of nothing and even more nothing collided into a big explosion with created something which started expanding in even more of that something which created the earth.

Its easy to make anything sound ridiculously stupid.

But that's just blatantly false, at least try overgeneralizing us like he did you. Make a joke about Stalinist Russia.
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Your test scores indicate that you are an open-minded ultra-progressive; this is the political profile one might associate with a journalist. It appears that you are skeptical towards religion, and have a balanced attitude towards humanity in general.

Your attitudes towards economics appear neither committedly capitalist nor socialist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as a liberal.

To round out the picture you appear to be, political preference aside, a sensible realistic egalitarian with several strong convictions.
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Ermiopa
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Postby Ermiopa » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:09 pm

Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:
Ermiopa wrote:I'm not asking for respect, I'm simply asking that you don't disrespect me, or my religion. Because, by disrespecting my religion, you disrespect me. Its like if you disrespect my mom, you disrespect me.

Oh, and its not that hard to mock atheism.

How atheists think the world was created:
A bunch of nothing and even more nothing collided into a big explosion with created something which started expanding in even more of that something which created the earth.

Its easy to make anything sound ridiculously stupid.

plz don't mutilate the BBT like that.
Just don't.
In fact until you take a few higher up physics courses on the matter don't even try.

:palm:
Did you even bother to read what I was saying before I said that?
I was showing how easy it is to make anything sound dumb.
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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:09 pm

Blasveck wrote:
Seperates wrote:I reply with, what is he testing for then? A test requires that there are results needed for something. One does not run tests to run tests.


A test, to make us better people, and to see if we are worthy of being in Heaven.


If we're not worthy, then our design is flawed.
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Blasveck
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Postby Blasveck » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:09 pm

Ermiopa wrote:
Seperates wrote:Mock atheism then, I don't fucking care.

Oh, look at the silly man who doesn't believe in a supernatural deity. Guess what? That's it. That's all you have. Because that's all that atheism is. There is no code, there is no guideline, there is nothing else. I don't believe in atheism. It's merely a result.

Don't bullshit me with this respect thing. I'm not mocking you for believing. I'm mocking you for asking for respect simply because you believe. Respect doesn't work that way.

I'm not asking for respect, I'm simply asking that you don't disrespect me, or my religion. Because, by disrespecting my religion, you disrespect me. Its like if you disrespect my mom, you disrespect me.

Oh, and its not that hard to mock atheism.

How atheists think the world was created:
A bunch of nothing and even more nothing collided into a big explosion with created something which started expanding in even more of that something which created the earth.

Its easy to make anything sound ridiculously stupid.


You lack an understanding of physics, biology, etc if you believe that that's what atheists believe.
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Seperates
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Postby Seperates » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:09 pm

Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:
The Sovietyeto wrote:I don't think anyone has opened this can of worms yet.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus

The "Problem of Evil" argument makes two assumptions:
1. That God is here to serve us;
2. That there cannot be a lesson learned in Evil that God wishes for us to learn.

“God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world.”

Indeed.
However, the first assumption must be made, because if God does not serve us, then why worship God? Simply because he is? Do I also worship the clouds for simply giving me shade? Or the sun for shining?

But does God need us to learn something from Evil, why could he not teach us it himself. Why does he need to make a lesson?
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

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Torcularis Septentrionalis
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Postby Torcularis Septentrionalis » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:09 pm

Ermiopa wrote:
Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:plz don't mutilate the BBT like that.
Just don't.
In fact until you take a few higher up physics courses on the matter don't even try.

:palm:
Did you even bother to read what I was saying before I said that?
I was showing how easy it is to make anything sound dumb.

You can only make something sound dumb if you know what the fuck you're talking about.
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Furious Grandmothers wrote:Why are you talking about murder when we are talking about abortion? Murdering a fetus is impossible. It's like smelling an echo. You're not making sense.



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The Scientific States
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Postby The Scientific States » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:09 pm

Ermiopa wrote:
Seperates wrote:Mock atheism then, I don't fucking care.

Oh, look at the silly man who doesn't believe in a supernatural deity. Guess what? That's it. That's all you have. Because that's all that atheism is. There is no code, there is no guideline, there is nothing else. I don't believe in atheism. It's merely a result.

Don't bullshit me with this respect thing. I'm not mocking you for believing. I'm mocking you for asking for respect simply because you believe. Respect doesn't work that way.

I'm not asking for respect, I'm simply asking that you don't disrespect me, or my religion. Because, by disrespecting my religion, you disrespect me. Its like if you disrespect my mom, you disrespect me.

Oh, and its not that hard to mock atheism.

How atheists think the world was created:
A bunch of nothing and even more nothing collided into a big explosion with created something which started expanding in even more of that something which created the earth.

Its easy to make anything sound ridiculously stupid.


The way you described the Big Bang did sound ridiculously stupid. I think that was intentional based of your last sentence.

Also how do Christians think God was created?
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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:10 pm

Blasveck wrote:
The Sovietyeto wrote:I don't think anyone has opened this can of worms yet.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus


"IT'S ALL A TEST."

That's the answer that I've heard.


Which has always been a big problem for me.

Okay - so god allows a bunch of kids to be raped and murdered, to test people.

Except the kids. They didn't get tested. Just raped. And murdered.
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Blasveck
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Postby Blasveck » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:10 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Blasveck wrote:
A test, to make us better people, and to see if we are worthy of being in Heaven.


If we're not worthy, then our design is flawed.


We are flawed because its our fault.
Because of Adam and Eve.

(I am not a Christian, but this is how some answer)
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Uiiop
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Uiiop » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:10 pm

Tlaceceyaya wrote:
Ermiopa wrote:He is testing us to see if we are good. He only wants those who are good in his perfect world because those who are bad and evil would ruin it for everyone.

Then why not make us all good?
Why demand rejection of evidence?

Because it would probably make for a boring species...like how would it be to have everyone be nice and friendly in a RP? :meh: [/non-theist theorizing]
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Seperates
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Postby Seperates » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:10 pm

Ermiopa wrote:
Seperates wrote:Mock atheism then, I don't fucking care.

Oh, look at the silly man who doesn't believe in a supernatural deity. Guess what? That's it. That's all you have. Because that's all that atheism is. There is no code, there is no guideline, there is nothing else. I don't believe in atheism. It's merely a result.

Don't bullshit me with this respect thing. I'm not mocking you for believing. I'm mocking you for asking for respect simply because you believe. Respect doesn't work that way.

I'm not asking for respect, I'm simply asking that you don't disrespect me, or my religion. Because, by disrespecting my religion, you disrespect me. Its like if you disrespect my mom, you disrespect me.

Oh, and its not that hard to mock atheism.

How atheists think the world was created:
A bunch of nothing and even more nothing collided into a big explosion with created something which started expanding in even more of that something which created the earth.

Its easy to make anything sound ridiculously stupid.

Then don't be so attached to your ideas if they are so easily mocked.

Cute. That's not mocking atheism. That's mocking physics.
Last edited by Seperates on Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

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Ermiopa
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Postby Ermiopa » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:10 pm

Blasveck wrote:
Ermiopa wrote:I'm not asking for respect, I'm simply asking that you don't disrespect me, or my religion. Because, by disrespecting my religion, you disrespect me. Its like if you disrespect my mom, you disrespect me.

Oh, and its not that hard to mock atheism.

How atheists think the world was created:
A bunch of nothing and even more nothing collided into a big explosion with created something which started expanding in even more of that something which created the earth.

Its easy to make anything sound ridiculously stupid.


You lack an understanding of physics, biology, etc if you believe that that's what atheists believe.

Does no one bother to read that last line?? I was making it oversimplified on purpose to show him how people mock it idiotically, just like people oversimplify religion to mock it.
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The Scientific States
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Postby The Scientific States » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:11 pm

Blasveck wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
If we're not worthy, then our design is flawed.


We are flawed because its our fault.
Because of Adam and Eve.

(I am not a Christian, but this is how some answer)


It's true. Why would God allow us to be flawed with Adam and Eve if he wanted humans without sin? He could've prevented it, after all he is "all knowing"
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