Homosexuality a trend?

[The Scientific States]

True homosexuality? No.

All the teenage girls who go about saying their bi to get laid? Yeah, I think so.

I'll agree with you for the moment, but I wouldn't bet on people not being able to choose their sexuality within this century. Society and scientists are making the world more interesting every day.

How does scientists making the word interesting have to do with anything?

[Riiser-Larsen]

You can tell me that until you're blue in the face, but I refuse to believe it. I steadfastly remain with my opinion that homosexuality is a perversion of the natural order, and that accepting it is harming society in the long run (which also happens to answer your second point).

And everyone with but a thread of decency will continue to laugh at opinions as outlandishly lamentable as yours.

Yeah, given that he's said that he's essentially been removed from the debate. As soon as you state that any and all rational arguments will not convince you to change your opinion, you've lost the right to state your opinion in a debate forum.

[Avenio]

You can tell me that until you're blue in the face, but I refuse to believe it. I steadfastly remain with my opinion that homosexuality is a perversion of the natural order, and that accepting it is harming society in the long run (which also happens to answer your second point).

In evolutionary biology there's a concept called kin selection, whereby traits that decrease fitness (defined simply as the ability to reproduce) in individuals may be selected for on a population level if said traits offset their cost by increasing the fitness of other individuals in the population without the trait.

A non-reproducing subset of the population (ie homosexuals, bisexuals, etc) is useful in social organisms like humans (and many other social organisms, like bonobos, dolphins and penguins) because they can contribute to parental care and acquisition of resources in the community throughout life, without placing the cost of reproduction on the community.

Put simply, evolution doesn't particularly care if you don't reproduce, as long as people related to you do. And that's why homosexuality exists, and is certainly not a 'perversion of the natural order'.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

It's not a preversion. It's genetic. How. Many. Times. Do. You. Need. To. Be. Told? It's normal to be gay, and even healthy to accept it. To have people repress themselves is unhealthy and can cause issues.

While we punish serial killers, they cause harm to society like you side. But gays do not.

You can tell me that until you're blue in the face, but I refuse to believe it. I steadfastly remain with my opinion that homosexuality is a perversion of the natural order, and that accepting it is harming society in the long run (which also happens to answer your second point).

How does me getting married to a woman affect you in any way?

[The Scientific States]

I'm going to have to disagree, most people support gay rights now because they're becoming more tolerant.

Perhaps, but by the general definition of "trend", gay rights are "trendy".

I guess you're right, if you use the general definition of trend.

[Hathradic States]

True homosexuality? No.

All the teenage girls who go about saying their bi to get laid? Yeah, I think so.

I'll agree with you for the moment, but I wouldn't bet on people not being able to choose their sexuality within this century. Society and scientists are making the world more interesting every day.

I could see it happening, I admit.

But...why? That would be changing who you are to the very core.

[Valcouria]

Of course I did. One day, I saw a female that I happened to like, and, being surrounded by society that (at the time) promulgated heterosexuality, I chose that venue rather than the alternative.

Bullshit, I never chose my sexual orientation, and neither did anyone else. Why do you think everyone is claiming they didn't choose their orientation? Which seems more likely to you? Millions of people pretending they never chose their sexual orientation as a part of some global conspiracy we somehow telepathically comunicated with one another to make others believe sexuality isn't a choice, or that you are wrong and that millions of people as well as mental health experts are correct?

Personally, I view it to be an extension of the civil rights movement to see how far people can go to get what they want from the government. As I said before, I suspect in a few decades or so we'll be having a similar debate regarding the merits of polygamy, zoophilia, incest, and pederasty.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

I'll agree with you for the moment, but I wouldn't bet on people not being able to choose their sexuality within this century. Society and scientists are making the world more interesting every day.

How does scientists making the word interesting have to do with anything?

The increase of the ability to choose. As DNA encoded instincts become less important, naturally those instincts will break down and that will be the end of that.

[Mavorpen]

Bullshit, I never chose my sexual orientation, and neither did anyone else. Why do you think everyone is claiming they didn't choose their orientation? Which seems more likely to you? Millions of people pretending they never chose their sexual orientation as a part of some global conspiracy we somehow telepathically comunicated with one another to make others believe sexuality isn't a choice, or that you are wrong and that millions of people as well as mental health experts are correct?

Personally, I view it to be an extension of the civil rights movement to see how far people can go to get what they want from the government. As I said before, I suspect in a few decades or so we'll be having a similar debate regarding the merits of polygamy, zoophilia, incest, and pederasty.

And I hope that we do.

But please, tell us what does that have to do with homosexuality.

[Pandeeria]

Well, I don't think Valcouria is going to reply to this thread anytime soon.

[New Libertarian States]

You can tell me that until you're blue in the face, but I refuse to believe it. I steadfastly remain with my opinion that homosexuality is a perversion of the natural order, and that accepting it is harming society in the long run (which also happens to answer your second point).

How does me getting married to a woman affect you in any way?

Too much fabulousness scares him.

[New haven america]

Rawrckia, I'm waiting for you to reply to what I said about the name-calling thing. It's near the bottom of page 37.

[Cadaver breadsticks]

Bullshit, I never chose my sexual orientation, and neither did anyone else. Why do you think everyone is claiming they didn't choose their orientation? Which seems more likely to you? Millions of people pretending they never chose their sexual orientation as a part of some global conspiracy we somehow telepathically comunicated with one another to make others believe sexuality isn't a choice, or that you are wrong and that millions of people as well as mental health experts are correct?

Personally, I view it to be an extension of the civil rights movement to see how far people can go to get what they want from the government. As I said before, I suspect in a few decades or so we'll be having a similar debate regarding the merits of polygamy, zoophilia, incest, and pederasty.

The homosexuality slippery slope argument has no standing in the slightest and is obnoxiously fallacious.

[The Scientific States]

Bullshit, I never chose my sexual orientation, and neither did anyone else. Why do you think everyone is claiming they didn't choose their orientation? Which seems more likely to you? Millions of people pretending they never chose their sexual orientation as a part of some global conspiracy we somehow telepathically comunicated with one another to make others believe sexuality isn't a choice, or that you are wrong and that millions of people as well as mental health experts are correct?

Personally, I view it to be an extension of the civil rights movement to see how far people can go to get what they want from the government. As I said before, I suspect in a few decades or so we'll be having a similar debate regarding the merits of polygamy, zoophilia, incest, and pederasty.

That's complete bs. You're using the slippery slope arguement that always exists every time some oppressed group of people want rights.

Did woman voting lead to hamsters voting? No.

[New Libertarian States]

Bullshit, I never chose my sexual orientation, and neither did anyone else. Why do you think everyone is claiming they didn't choose their orientation? Which seems more likely to you? Millions of people pretending they never chose their sexual orientation as a part of some global conspiracy we somehow telepathically comunicated with one another to make others believe sexuality isn't a choice, or that you are wrong and that millions of people as well as mental health experts are correct?

Personally, I view it to be an extension of the civil rights movement to see how far people can go to get what they want from the government. As I said before, I suspect in a few decades or so we'll be having a similar debate regarding the merits of polygamy, zoophilia, incest, and pederasty.

*points you to the Netherlands*
Bullshit.
And, that's a very slippery slope.

[Geilinor]

It's not a preversion. It's genetic. How. Many. Times. Do. You. Need. To. Be. Told? It's normal to be gay, and even healthy to accept it. To have people repress themselves is unhealthy and can cause issues.

While we punish serial killers, they cause harm to society like you side. But gays do not.

You can tell me that until you're blue in the face, but I refuse to believe it. I steadfastly remain with my opinion that homosexuality is a perversion of the natural order, and that accepting it is harming society in the long run (which also happens to answer your second point).

Take this, Valc.
It is not a choice to be homosexual and I have the evidence. http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/winter/10-myths

a great many studies suggest that it is the result of biological and environmental forces, not a personal "choice."

One of the more recent is a 2008 Swedish study of twins (the world's largest twin study) that appeared in The Archives of Sexual Behavior and concluded that "[h]omosexual behaviour is largely shaped by genetics and random environmental factors." Dr. Qazi Rahman, study co-author and a leading scientist on human sexual orientation, said: "This study puts cold water on any concerns that we are looking for a single 'gay gene' or a single environmental variable which could be used to 'select out' homosexuality — the factors which influence sexual orientation are complex. And we are not simply talking about homosexuality here — heterosexual behaviour is also influenced by a mixture of genetic and environmental factors."

The American Psychological Association (APA) acknowledges that despite much research into the possible genetic, hormonal, social and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no evidence has emerged that would allow scientists to pinpoint the precise causes of sexual orientation. Still, the APA concludes that "most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation."

As to your second point that homosexuality harms society. From that same source:

No legitimate research has demonstrated that same-sex couples are any more or any less harmful to children than heterosexual couples

According to the American Psychological Association, "homosexual men are not more likely to sexually abuse children than heterosexual men are."

All major professional mental health organizations are on record as stating that homosexuality is not a mental disorder.

You've been destroyed on every point, Valc. Your lies are blatant fabrications.

[Riiser-Larsen]

Bullshit, I never chose my sexual orientation, and neither did anyone else. Why do you think everyone is claiming they didn't choose their orientation? Which seems more likely to you? Millions of people pretending they never chose their sexual orientation as a part of some global conspiracy we somehow telepathically comunicated with one another to make others believe sexuality isn't a choice, or that you are wrong and that millions of people as well as mental health experts are correct?

Personally, I view it to be an extension of the civil rights movement to see how far people can go to get what they want from the government. As I said before, I suspect in a few decades or so we'll be having a similar debate regarding the merits of polygamy, zoophilia, incest, and pederasty.

Zoophilia is on a completely different scale from a man wanting to marry a man. Since when did sexual relations with an animal or a child (unable to consent) stem from two adults deeply in love with each other who happen to be the same sex?

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

I'll agree with you for the moment, but I wouldn't bet on people not being able to choose their sexuality within this century. Society and scientists are making the world more interesting every day.

I could see it happening, I admit.

But...why? That would be changing who you are to the very core.

Would it? Does all life revolve around sexual relationships? Should it?

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

How does me getting married to a woman affect you in any way?

Too much fabulousness scares him.

I'M SO SCARY! LOOK! LIPSTICK LESBIANISM! TERRIFYING.

[Tlaceceyaya]

Bullshit, I never chose my sexual orientation, and neither did anyone else. Why do you think everyone is claiming they didn't choose their orientation? Which seems more likely to you? Millions of people pretending they never chose their sexual orientation as a part of some global conspiracy we somehow telepathically comunicated with one another to make others believe sexuality isn't a choice, or that you are wrong and that millions of people as well as mental health experts are correct?

Personally, I view it to be an extension of the civil rights movement to see how far people can go to get what they want from the government. As I said before, I suspect in a few decades or so we'll be having a similar debate regarding the merits of polygamy, zoophilia, incest, and pederasty.

Consenting individuals marrying is different from non-consenting individuals marrying.

[New haven america]

True homosexuality? No.

All the teenage girls who go about saying their bi to get laid? Yeah, I think so.

Thank you!

[Riiser-Larsen]

Too much fabulousness scares him.

I'M SO SCARY! LOOK! LIPSTICK LESBIANISM! TERRIFYING.

People have some weird fears.

[Threlizdun]

Bullshit, I never chose my sexual orientation, and neither did anyone else. Why do you think everyone is claiming they didn't choose their orientation? Which seems more likely to you? Millions of people pretending they never chose their sexual orientation as a part of some global conspiracy we somehow telepathically comunicated with one another to make others believe sexuality isn't a choice, or that you are wrong and that millions of people as well as mental health experts are correct?

Personally, I view it to be an extension of the civil rights movement to see how far people can go to get what they want from the government. As I said before, I suspect in a few decades or so we'll be having a similar debate regarding the merits of polygamy, zoophilia, incest, and pederasty.

So you are going for the global conspiracy involving millions then rather than you being wrong?

[Anachronous Rex]

You can tell me that until you're blue in the face, but I refuse to believe it. I steadfastly remain with my opinion that homosexuality is a perversion of the natural order, and that accepting it is harming society in the long run (which also happens to answer your second point).

How does me getting married to a woman affect you in any way?

It affects me in more ways then you know...

[Rawrckia]

Still waiting about the name calling thing, my reply to that is near the bottom of the 37th page.

My apologies, I went to brush and didn't see it.

Children aren't old enough to give consent, if you marry someone under 18, or two people under 18 get married in the US, It's illegal.
I don't give a fuck what happened in history, we're not in the 15th century anymore.
The IQ thing, they are adults over 18, they can consent.
No, I'm not in middle school, I'm an HS Sophomore and making a better argument than you.
Anything else you want?

"Children aren't old enough to give consent, if you marry someone under 18, or two people under 18 get married in the US, It's illegal."
"I don't give a fuck what happened in history, we're not in the 15th century anymore."
This is a ridiculous position to take. In the 15th century, someone like me might have said "mm I don't think it's moral to marry a prepubescent girl, she doesn't know what mature love is"
And this would be your response:
"But we're not in Stone Age times where monogamous couples existed just for children. This is the 15th century and it's perfectly fine to marry a 12 year old with no intention of having children for a couple years. We're new, we're modern, we're hip!"
Not to mention, you again treat the line between "minor" and "adult" like it's sacred and never should be touched. But in reality the number is just nonsense. You can be tried as an adult in criminal court at age 11 or even younger. You can drive a car (where I'm at at least) at 16. You can consent to sex at 16 here, and isn't that what this "marrying younger women" argument is all about? And you cannot consume alcohol until age 21? These numbers are fairly meaningless and you're taking them like they were carved on a mountain by God. Not to mention different, MODERN countries have all different ages for these. "It's illegal in the US to get married at 17" is a shitty, shitty argument. It was illegal before in this country for a black man to marry a white woman, it was punishable by death.
"The IQ thing, they are adults over 18, they can consent."
Again, garbage-tier logic. Just being 18 doesn't mean jack-shit. And to such a specific thing as marriage, when there's no real age limit for sex between minors? I've met adults in their late twenties who are no better than schoolchildren - they're irresponsible, they're lazy, they're rude, and they depend on other people's money to feed them. And I've met "children" in their early teens showing wisdom, logical thinking, intellect, and knowledge far beyond their years.
"No, I'm not in middle school, I'm an HS Sophomore and making a better argument than you."
Haha sure you are, keep telling yourself that. And 15 years old is middle school in Taiwan, and in my cousin's old school in Solon. Protip: People dislike "stereotypical Americans" for their pig-headedness and knowledge restricted to their backyard.