Fast Food Workers Stage Strike, Demand Higher Minimal Wage.

[Des-Bal]

If you honestly think that living on government assistance is 'the best in life' you either have no fucking aspirations or you're delusional.

I wasn't talking about government assistance I was talking about this idea that if anybody has a shitty life then it's a problem demanding a solution. Some people get shafted.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

Not that that's relevant, of course. Access to an equal share of the total social wealth is an entitlement stemming from the mere fact of one's existence, not a privilege contingent upon the value of one's economic production.

I exist and I can say in good conscious that I'm not entitled to anything.

Sure you are.

No one should be obligated to give me anything and I should have to work for it.

No, you shouldn't.

[The Nuclear Fist]

You should be paid a fair wage, one that doesn't put you under the poverty line or force you to immediately get government assistance in order to survive.

You should be paid a wage that reflects the value of your labor and the government should not get involved.

The government not getting involved means people go hungry, they die of easily preventable diseases, the quality of life overall goes down and human suffering goes up. The now disadvantaged who have to pull their children out of school in order to work thus create a generational problem, as their children won't have the necessary education to likely move up in society, creating an endless cycle of povery and despair. There's a reason the world moved past the Gilded Age, friend. It's because it was shit.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

If you honestly think that living on government assistance is 'the best in life' you either have no fucking aspirations or you're delusional.

I wasn't talking about government assistance I was talking about this idea that if anybody has a shitty life then it's a problem demanding a solution.

It is a problem demanding a solution.

Some people get shafted.

There's enough to go around that that doesn't have to be the case.

[The Nuclear Fist]

I wasn't talking about government assistance I was talking about this idea that if anybody has a shitty life then it's a problem demanding a solution. Some people get shafted.

And, according to you, those shafted people should deal with their problems personally. I'm sorry, but that's not always possible. You can't exactly pull yourself up by your bootstraps when you don't have boots on.

[Gauthier]

If you honestly think that living on government assistance is 'the best in life' you either have no fucking aspirations or you're delusional.

I wasn't talking about government assistance I was talking about this idea that if anybody has a shitty life then it's a problem demanding a solution. Some people get shafted.

The "Not My Problem" attitude is just way too obvious.

[Gauthier]

I wasn't talking about government assistance I was talking about this idea that if anybody has a shitty life then it's a problem demanding a solution. Some people get shafted.

And, according to you, those shafted people should deal with their problems personally. I'm sorry, but that's not always possible. You can't exactly pull yourself up by your bootstraps when you don't have boots on.

Hence taking a page from Mitt Romney's Working Man Advice and asking your parents for money.

[Des-Bal]

The government not getting involved means people go hungry, they die of easily preventable diseases, the quality of life overall goes down and human suffering goes up. The now disadvantaged who have to pull their children out of school in order to work thus create a generational problem, as their children won't have the necessary education to likely move up in society, creating an endless cycle of povery and despair. There's a reason the world moved past the Gilded Age, friend. It's because it was shit.

When the alternative is big brother aiming for you when you piss I'm good with that.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

I wasn't talking about government assistance I was talking about this idea that if anybody has a shitty life then it's a problem demanding a solution. Some people get shafted.

The "Not My Problem" attitude is just way too obvious.

It's laziness, basically. People with this attitude are just lazy. After all, not thinking about things, and not doing anything to solve social problems, is a hell of a lot less work than thinking about things, and doing what is needed to solve social problems.

[Des-Bal]

And, according to you, those shafted people should deal with their problems personally. I'm sorry, but that's not always possible. You can't exactly pull yourself up by your bootstraps when you don't have boots on.

If you can't pull yourself up make do.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Hence taking a page from Mitt Romney's Working Man Advice and asking your parents for money.

Who doesn't have twenty thousand in their nation's currency laying around?

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

The government not getting involved means people go hungry, they die of easily preventable diseases, the quality of life overall goes down and human suffering goes up. The now disadvantaged who have to pull their children out of school in order to work thus create a generational problem, as their children won't have the necessary education to likely move up in society, creating an endless cycle of povery and despair. There's a reason the world moved past the Gilded Age, friend. It's because it was shit.

When the alternative is big brother aiming for you when you piss I'm good with that.

Good thing that's not the alternative, then.

[Des-Bal]

The "Not My Problem" attitude is just way too obvious.

It should be I wasn't making any effort to hide it. It isn't my problem. The problems of people who are not me are by definition not my problem. I'll gladly help other people with their problems when it's feasible but I won't advocate forcing everyone to be their brothers keeper.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

The "Not My Problem" attitude is just way too obvious.

It should be I wasn't making any effort to hide it. It isn't my problem. The problems of people who are not me are by definition not my problem.

Sure they are. Ultimately, they're social problems, since they're part of society, and since you're part of society too, they're your problem as well.

But I get it. Not thinking about things requires a hell of a lot less work than thinking about things. Not lifting a finger to solve social problems requires a hell of a lot less work than doing what is necessary to solve social problems. We understand.

[The Nuclear Fist]

When the alternative is big brother aiming for you when you piss I'm good with that.

Except no one is honestly proposing that. Are you honestly stating that being required to actually pay a wage that doesn't result in systemic widespread poverty or death will create a totalitarian state, because that's ridiculous and you know it.

If you can't pull yourself up make do.

That's not always possible. Face it, some people need assistance. The old fable of the Randian superman is just that, a fable. A lie.

[Des-Bal]

Except no one is honestly proposing that. Are you honestly stating that being required to actually pay a wage that doesn't result in systemic widespread poverty or death will create a totalitarian state, because that's ridiculous and you know it.

That's not always possible. Face it, some people need assistance. The old fable of the Randian superman is just that, a fable. A lie.

No it's not. You cannot invite the government into every facet of your life and then act surprised when you can't escape it.

In general yes it is. The great thing about living is that it's not that hard to do. Basic survival is easily achievable.

[Saiwania]

So you just have a hard-on for fucking over poor people, that's what I thought.

I'm not rich, but I don't see that as a reason to envy the rich for what they have. There must be a reason why they're rich to begin with, so I think they should keep their money and what's theirs, as with everyone else in a different income bracket. It just so happens that people who earn very little, don't have much and I don't think that in itself is a problem.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

There must be a reason why they're rich to begin with

You're right, there is a reason. Specifically, it's that they stole from those who have less. After all, since each person is entitled by the mere fact of his existence to an equal share of the social wealth, the mere fact of possession in excess of the social mean constitutes an act of theft from those who have less.

so I think they should keep their money and what's theirs

Why should they be able to keep their ill-gotten booty? Don't they have an obligation to make restitution for the act of theft they have committed?

[Saiwania]

You're right, there is a reason. Specifically, it's that they stole from those who have less. After all, since each person is entitled by the mere fact of his existence to an equal share of the social wealth, the mere fact of possession in excess of the social mean constitutes an act of theft from those who have less.

The rich didn't steal from me as a lower middle class person, just by having a much higher income. I don't believe that everyone is entitled to equal wealth merely for existing and the rich legally earned the money they have or inherited it. People will only pay you however much they are willing to pay for certain types of work, and if you can't command a higher wage within the free market; your skills just aren't valuable.

[Sheltopolis]

There must be a reason why they're rich to begin with

You're right, there is a reason. Specifically, it's that they stole from those who have less. After all, since each person is entitled by the mere fact of his existence to an equal share of the social wealth, the mere fact of possession in excess of the social mean constitutes an act of theft from those who have less.

You are so right. People like Bill Gates, inventor of Microsoft, and Mark Zuckerberg, inventor of Facebook, definitely stole our money to get their ideas. Idiot.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

You're right, there is a reason. Specifically, it's that they stole from those who have less. After all, since each person is entitled by the mere fact of his existence to an equal share of the social wealth, the mere fact of possession in excess of the social mean constitutes an act of theft from those who have less.

The rich didn't steal from me as a lower middle class person, just by having a much higher income.

Sure they did. You're entitled to the social mean, and so if you possess below that amount, the difference was stolen from you by those who have more from it.

I don't believe that everyone is entitled to equal wealth merely for existing

Then you're wrong, of course.

People will only pay you however much they are willing to pay for certain types of work, and if you can't command a higher wage within the free market; your skills just aren't valuable.

There are precisely zero morally defensible reasons for linking access to resources to economic production. The two are completely separate; they have absolutely nothing to do with one another in a free and just society.

[Sheltopolis]

You're right, there is a reason. Specifically, it's that they stole from those who have less. After all, since each person is entitled by the mere fact of his existence to an equal share of the social wealth, the mere fact of possession in excess of the social mean constitutes an act of theft from those who have less.

The rich didn't steal from me as a lower middle class person, just by having a much higher income. I don't believe that everyone is entitled to equal wealth merely for existing and the rich legally earned the money they have or inherited it. People will only pay you however much they are willing to pay for certain types of work, and if you can't command a higher wage within the free market; your skills just aren't valuable.

Ah wonderful, someone who doesn't think the upper class just steals everything and that everyone else is entitled to a share of it.

[Vazdania]

Fast Food workers.....are striking?

[Sheltopolis]

The rich didn't steal from me as a lower middle class person, just by having a much higher income.

Sure they did. You're entitled to the social mean, and so if you possess below that amount, the difference was stolen from you by those who have more from it.

Is this a joke? Is that actually what you think? You have the ability to become as rich as you please; doesn't mean it will happen, but no person of greater wealth than you is restricting you in any way from become successful.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

Sure they did. You're entitled to the social mean, and so if you possess below that amount, the difference was stolen from you by those who have more from it.

Is this a joke? Is that actually what you think? You have the ability to become as rich as you please

You're absolutely right: I do have the ability to lie to, cheat, and steal from the rest of humanity. As a moral person, though, I'm not going to do it.

doesn't mean it will happen, but no person of greater wealth than you is restricting you in any way from become successful.

You're assuming that one's access to material wealth is a privilege contingent upon one's actions.

In a free and just society, that's not the case. A free and just society recognizes that since all wealth is social in origin, all wealth rightfully belongs to society, and that each person by the mere fact of hir existence is entitled to an equal share of that social wealth.

The capitalist distribution of wealth is by no means the only possible means of distributing wealth--and it's certainly not a just or morally defensible one, nor is it one compatible with a free, non-oppressive, non-coercive society.

But, yes, your false consciousness is a common symptom of capitalist society. You believe you have a vested interest in hating freedom and individual liberty, because the collectivist-capitalist authoritarian ruling class has promised you a boon for your loyal and slavish service. They have no intention of actually granting you that boon, of course, but you presumably don't know that yet.