Fast Food Workers Stage Strike, Demand Higher Minimal Wage.

[Aequalitia]

Plenty of people get less then them already now, you known?

Yes, that is unfortunately true. What's your point?

My point is that a 15 dollars per hour wage is just extreme. I would suggest a hour wage of 9 dollars, and if you count that to 8 hours of work and 22 workdays, then you come to 1584 dollars. That is already a very good monthly wage for that job.

[Imperializt Russia]

Yes, that is unfortunately true. What's your point?

My point is that a 15 dollars per hour wage is just extreme. I would suggest a hour wage of 9 dollars, and if you count that to 8 hours of work and 22 workdays, then you come to 1584 dollars. That is already a very good monthly wage for that job.

Which is what, post-negotiation, this'll probably end up being.

If you start up at nine dollars, they'll whittle you down to nothing and wait out until your strikers can't afford to strike. Then you'll have gained nothing, and lost some money.

[Ifreann]

Yes, that is unfortunately true. What's your point?

My point is that a 15 dollars per hour wage is just extreme.

And they're only asking for it because they want room to negotiate down.

[Freiheit Reich]

Can you live on $7.35 an hour?

I know the Answer.

Nope

Wrong, see my earlier post within this thread where I show you can live on less than $800 a month.

[Christian Democrats]

I don't think fast food work is more important than two-fifths of the jobs in America;

Do you think Beyonce and Jay Z are more important than Obama? How much money one earns does not reflect how important one is.

It reflects demand, and the demand for fast food workers is not very high since they are engaged in unskilled labor.

[Aequalitia]

My point is that a 15 dollars per hour wage is just extreme.

And they're only asking for it because they want room to negotiate down.

Well, but still what for realistic hour wage rate there got in there minds? 15 dollars is just extreme, so we need to find the best balance.

There will 15, the companies disagree and like to stay it so low as it can legal, strikes starting and then finally there comes a better wage per hour.

So, what would you find a fair and realistic hour wage for them?

[Freiheit Reich]

Besides, if the free market thinks flipping burgers is worth more than being a solider than companies will voluntarily raise wages to $15 an hour or even higher. How many nurses are making $7-8 an hour? How many pilots are making $7-8 an hour? The free market set the wages for both of those jobs, why not let the free market set the wage for fast food workers?

I love how you think that unions are separate from the free market in some way. These workers think their labour is worth more than they are currently being paid. They are negotiating, through their representatives, to get better conditions. To strengthen their position they're withdrawing their labour. Pure capitalism, baby. People selling or refusing to sell something they have that someone else wants.

Good, let them negotiate and quit their job if the bosses disagree with their demands. I said before they can quit if they dislike their wages. Bosses should be able to freely fire them if they don't show up to work on time for their shift due to a strike though.

[Alien Space Bats]

I just returned back to the Democrats. Not quite as liberal as I once was. But a Democrat nonetheless.

Hey, we love guys like you!

[Mike the Progressive]

I just returned back to the Democrats. Not quite as liberal as I once was. But a Democrat nonetheless.

Hey, we love guys like you!

I'm hardly a blue dog.

[Ifreann]

Do you think Beyonce and Jay Z are more important than Obama? How much money one earns does not reflect how important one is.

It reflects demand, and the demand for fast food workers is not very high since they are engaged in unskilled labor.

So you're backing off your assertion that wages reflect importance. Good. Do you have some other reasons behind your ideas about how much fast food workers should be paid?

---

And they're only asking for it because they want room to negotiate down.

Well, but still what for realistic hour wage rate there got in there minds? 15 dollars is just extreme, so we need to find the best balance.

No, we don't. They'll work that out with their employers. Or not and they'll be forced to go back to work or quit.

---

I love how you think that unions are separate from the free market in some way. These workers think their labour is worth more than they are currently being paid. They are negotiating, through their representatives, to get better conditions. To strengthen their position they're withdrawing their labour. Pure capitalism, baby. People selling or refusing to sell something they have that someone else wants.

Good, let them negotiate

They are. They are participating in the free market to set their wages. So am I to take it that you now support this action? Or do you have a problem with the free market?

[Alien Space Bats]

I don't think fast food work is more important than two-fifths of the jobs in America; and I do not see why a 20-something-year-old Mcworker, unmarried, would need to be making more than almost 70 percent of his or her peers.

Since when do we base pay on someone's situation?

I mean, what do 20-something stockbrokers or freshly minted law associates make?

Beyond that, though, remember that the median age for fast food workers is 28.

Mathematically, that means that 50% of all fast food workers are 28 years old or more.

[Yes Im Biop]

I know the Answer.

Nope

Wrong, see my earlier post within this thread where I show you can live on less than $800 a month.

Where Can you? And I saw It. I live in Iowa and don't have a few grand to move anywhere.

[Geilinor]

My point is that a 15 dollars per hour wage is just extreme. I would suggest a hour wage of 9 dollars, and if you count that to 8 hours of work and 22 workdays, then you come to 1584 dollars. That is already a very good monthly wage for that job.

Which is what, post-negotiation, this'll probably end up being.

If you start up at nine dollars, they'll whittle you down to nothing and wait out until your strikers can't afford to strike. Then you'll have gained nothing, and lost some money.

I agree. Some people need to learn how negotiations usually work.

[Geilinor]

I love how you think that unions are separate from the free market in some way. These workers think their labour is worth more than they are currently being paid. They are negotiating, through their representatives, to get better conditions. To strengthen their position they're withdrawing their labour. Pure capitalism, baby. People selling or refusing to sell something they have that someone else wants.

Good, let them negotiate and quit their job if the bosses disagree with their demands. I said before they can quit if they dislike their wages. Bosses should be able to freely fire them if they don't show up to work on time for their shift due to a strike though.

They are negotiating. Union rights and the free market are not mutually exclusive, as you seem to believe.

[Ifreann]

Which is what, post-negotiation, this'll probably end up being.

If you start up at nine dollars, they'll whittle you down to nothing and wait out until your strikers can't afford to strike. Then you'll have gained nothing, and lost some money.

I agree. Some people need to learn how negotiations usually work.

Its either an indictment of the education system, or of how wilfully ignorant people will be to oppose unions.

[Geilinor]

If you read the thread at all, you'd understand that this is a starting demand to be whittled down in negotiations.

I think it's going to be whittled down to minimum wage once the negotiations are done.

They'll probably get a slight increase in wages or benefits.

[Siaos]

Ugh are you serious? They are all going to loose their job now, there are always 15-18 year olds willing to get a part-time job. Besides, you really shouldn't get paid much for standing at a counter saying "Welcome to DiabetesBurger, may I take your order?"

[Geilinor]

If you read the thread at all, you'd understand that this is a starting demand to be whittled down in negotiations.

That much is obvious, but the demand is too radical. At most, they should have requested a $10 minimum wage. By demanding a $15 starting wage, they make their entire cause seem laughable. How can anyone take them seriously after they have demanded $15?

If they requested $10, minimum wage would be just a step down. Their only other options then would be $8 and $9. I think $12 would have been a better starting point, but it's their negotiation. They can ask for whatever they want.

[Freiheit Reich]

Wrong, see my earlier post within this thread where I show you can live on less than $800 a month.

Where Can you? And I saw It. I live in Iowa and don't have a few grand to move anywhere.

Evansville, Indiana

My apartment was $400, all utilities included. This was 2009. A bicycle is enough to get around the city, bus service is $1 (unsure if discount passes available). I found shared housing available for $250 in Indianapolis (better economy there).

Iowa cheap rents, several around $300 a month:

http://desmoines.craigslist.org/roo/

$200 a month (unsure about utilities) in Creston
http://desmoines.craigslist.org/roo/3965478077.html

$290 in Des Moines, all utilities included:

http://desmoines.craigslist.org/roo/3965269639.html

$300 in Hartford, place looks nice. All utilities included:

http://desmoines.craigslist.org/roo/3975776534.html

Of course, you can have 4 people share a 2 bedroom place and knock down rents even more. This isn't great but OK for a short time and I knew people that lived like that (I lived with 60 men in 1 room for 3 months in the army, it is doable.

[Freiheit Reich]

Which is what, post-negotiation, this'll probably end up being.

If you start up at nine dollars, they'll whittle you down to nothing and wait out until your strikers can't afford to strike. Then you'll have gained nothing, and lost some money.

I agree. Some people need to learn how negotiations usually work.

If I was the boss and I knew I could easily find others to work for minimum wage than I would tell the workers to 'love it or leave it.' I would also say they should appreciate their jobs because many people are out of work. Their negotiating power would be worthless regardless of whether they asked for a $0.10 hourly raise or a $15 hourly raise.

I support their right to strike, I just find it amusing they are asking for so much when their job is entry level and can be performed by most people. The strikers obviously haven't studied economics very closely. Probably out partying and doing drugs in high school and maybe even getting pregnant instead of studying. This is pure speculation though.

Perhaps they would have a different attitude if they read 'Atlas Shrugged' and other books on this list:

http://capitalism.aynrand.org/top-10-bo ... beginners/

[Marcurix]

$15 an hour is a bit much for a fast food job.

[Imperializt Russia]

I agree. Some people need to learn how negotiations usually work.

Its either an indictment of the education system, or of how wilfully ignorant people will be to oppose unions.

It's America, it's both.

[Alien Space Bats]

... [T]hat way, they can be informed about their demands and avoid making ones that put the company under undue pressure or even total failure, e.g. like what happened with Chrysler and GM.

I'm sorry, but who told you that this is what happened with Chrysler and GM?

The pay difference between the Big Three and foreign car firms is entirely attributable to the fact that the Big Three have been in business longer, and thus have more retirees to support. Even then, the problem with the auto indstry in 2009 wasn;t payroll cost; it was the emergence of a credit crunch following the Crash of '08.

You see, people buy two things predominately on credit: Homes and cars. When the banks ran into trouyble in 2008, they stopped lending; when the banks stopped lending, consumers stopped buying, since well over 90% of all auto sales involve a credit contract. The dealerships literally had acres of cars on the lot and a long line of customers who were willing to buy them, but couldn't get credit approval for any of them.

ADDENDUM: Just because somebody's going to twist my words, let me make this clear: The Big Three had greater retirement costs than the foreign transplants not because they were browbeaten into granting their workers more lavish pension terms; no, the retirement benefits at the Big Three were (and are) pretty much the same as they are at the foreign transplants.

No, the Big Three had higher retirement costs for one reason and one reason only: Because they have more retirees. If the foreign transplants had the same retiree population as the Big Three, their retirement costs would be just as high.

Which raises an interesting point: If these pensions are unsustainable, is that because greedy union workers forced the Big Three into granting such concessions? If so, why have the non-union foreign transplants offered the same basic package?

Or is it that auto manufacturers have, wisely or unwisely (and knowingly or unknowingly), made promises they can't keep, because that's what they feel they need to offer (again, honestly or dishonestly) in order to fill their payroll?

Before we assert the former, we'd better make certain that the latter is not, in fact, the truth.

[Ifreann]

Ugh are you serious? They are all going to loose their job now,

I should hope not, that ought to be illegal.

there are always 15-18 year olds willing to get a part-time job.

Which isn't always good enough for a restaurants needs.

Besides, you really shouldn't get paid much for standing at a counter saying "Welcome to DiabetesBurger, may I take your order?"

Its not up to you.

---

$15 an hour is a bit much for a fast food job.

You have been failed by those who should have educated you.

[Christian Democrats]

It reflects demand, and the demand for fast food workers is not very high since they are engaged in unskilled labor.

So you're backing off your assertion that wages reflect importance. Good. Do you have some other reasons behind your ideas about how much fast food workers should be paid?

Pay reflects a lot of things; and, in the private sector, the importance people place on certain occupations helps determine the pay. The demand for fast food workers is low because the job of being a fast food worker is relatively unimportant compared to other occupations.

On a related note, I would like to see the national minimum wage for all workers raised to $7.50.

$7.50 x 40 hours = $300 per week
$300 x 52 weeks = $15,600 per year

2013 Poverty Line -- $15,510 for a two-person household

I think every full-time worker should make enough money to meet the basic needs of himself and at least one other person.

A starting wage of $7.50 seems reasonable for fast food workers in most parts of the country.

I mean, what do 20-something stockbrokers or freshly minted law associates make?

Beyond that, though, remember that the median age for fast food workers is 28.

Mathematically, that means that 50% of all fast food workers are 28 years old or more.

That is what SEIU is claiming.

Organizers of the movement say the average age of a fast-food worker is 28. And two-thirds of all fast-food workers are women, with a median age of 32.

But the National Restaurant Association counters with different statistics. That group says only 5% of restaurant employees make the federal minimum wage, and that 95% earn more than $7.25 an hour.

"The majority of minimum-wage workers in the U.S. are employed in industries other than restaurants," the association said in a statement. "Less than one-third of the minimum wage workers are part of the restaurant industry."

The association also added that the average household income of restaurant employees that earn the federal minimum wage is $62,507.

"More than three-quarters of those earning the starting wage in the restaurant industry are part-time employees, 7 in 10 are under the age of 25, and nearly half are teenagers," the association said.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/fast-food-workers-walk-off-job-as-part-of-wage-movement-b9966000z1-217921821.html

Elsewhere, I saw the statistic is 47 percent teenagers.

The 28-year-olds working for fast food restaurants are not making the minimum wage.

The people making $7.25 per hour are mostly in their teens or early 20s. It is called the starting wage for a reason.

A starting wage of $15 per hour makes no sense whatsoever. We are talking about a 21-year-old Mcworker.

As I said earlier, $10 is the highest demand that I would have considered reasonable. This $15 demand is a joke. If I were the employer, I would not even negotiate with people making such absurd demands.