The monarchy, republicanism, Unionism, and separation

[Unionist State of Scotland]

So as a few Scots may know, Dennis Canavan, chairman of Yes Scotland has spoken in favour of a Republic in the hypothetical event Scotland votes to dissolve the Union with the rest of Great Britain. To me, those in favour of independence appear to be the most anti-monarchist out of the for and against separation debate (I theorize that this is due to the nats viewing it as a symbol of the Union) and Scot Unionists (Like myself) appear to be the most pro-constitutional Monarchy (Likely for the same reason). The SNP's official position is pro-monarchy (Sort of).

So my question is this. Are all Scottish Unionists Royalists? and are all separatists Republican? is there a connection to Unionism and Monarchy/Separation and Republic?

Are there Republican Unionists/ separatist monarchists?

I myself am a pro-monarchy Unionist, but admittedly the Royals are very low on my list on why I am a Scots Unionist.


So Uni's and nats, What is your position on the Monarchy?

[The IASM]

It varies depending on the person.

[Meryuma]

I think republicanism would probably make the most sense for an independent Scotland. I could also kinda understand instating a Scottish monarch, though I wouldn't want it to happen myself. Keeping the Queen would sorta be defeating the purpose.

[Fray Bentos Pies]

I'm a yes voter and a Republican, but I know of a good few who are pro-Union and Republican, mainly from the Scottish Labour Party.

[Mkuki]

Are all Scottish Unionists Royalists? and are all separatists Republican? is there a connection to Unionism and Monarchy/Separation and Republic?

I doubt it. All or nothing statements are almost always false.

Are there Republican Unionists/ separatist monarchists?

Most likely, yes.

So Uni's and nats, What is your position on the Monarchy?

On the British Monarchy: Abandon it and take up Republicanism.

On a Prospective Scottish Monarchy: Abandon it and adopt Republicanism.

Personally, I don't support Scottish separatism, but it ultimately should be left up to the Scots on how they want to run themselves.


Disclaimer: I'm not a Scot.

[Machtergreifung]

So Uni's and nats, What is your position on the Monarchy?

It's powerless anyway, so why keep it?

For all the "but the tourism!" crowd - imagine if Buckingham Palace was open to the public 24/7!

[The Shambles]

These "real term" consequences seem to be hushed up whenever they're asked, maybe to ensure there's one focused topic on the way to 2014 without any of the nasty "what ifs" getting in the way. (Cf. the AV referendum).

There's only three valid options for an independent Scotland. Either they become a Crown Dependency or something similar to it, like the Isle of Man or some such, which enables the rest of the UK to keep Trident in its place (not that I want that bit to happen but that's a diversion to another thread); or they go down the Dominion route in the Australia/Canada model, a republic in all but name, but at least it keeps the tourists happy to see the Queen on the banknotes and doesn't make the Scottish Pound go down the drain quite so quickly; or they do an Éire and leave it all for their own devices.

All of these are fraught with problems. If there is a Yes vote (newsflash: there won't be), the next step will be even more important. You can't remove the salt you've added to the porridge, if you get my meaning...

[Onekawa-Nukanor]

So Uni's and nats, What is your position on the Monarchy?

It's powerless anyway, so why keep it?

For all the "but the tourism!" crowd - imagine if Buckingham Palace was open to the public 24/7!

Because Presidents are about as interesting and original in this modem world as old socks?

Plus, the Monarchy could 'cause quite a fuss if she actually wielded the power in a way that goes against the government.

Unsurprisingly, I'm for a Scottish monarchy should Scotland desire independence.

[Threlizdun]

I personally don't really understand the reasoning behind Scottish independence that well, though I strongly oppose monarchism, so I suppose I would most likely be a republican unionist if I was Scottish. Honestly though I just believe it should be left up for the Scottish people to decide.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

I think republicanism would probably make the most sense for an independent Scotland. I could also kinda understand instating a Scottish monarch, though I wouldn't want it to happen myself. Keeping the Queen would sorta be defeating the purpose.

If the purpose is sticking it to the English rather than just seeking more control over Scotland's national trajectory, then yes, it would defeat the purpose. If not (and I'm fairly certain it's not), I don't see how transitioning to a Commonwealth Realm is necessarily inconsistent with an independent Scotland.

I, personally, am pro-Union and pro-Monarchy. No particularly non-emotional reason.

Edit: I'm half-Scottish, but... yeah, I guess I'm pretty English. Didn't realise this was meant for Scots.

[Meryuma]

Disclaimer: I'm not a Scot.

Neither am I.

I personally don't really understand the reasoning behind Scottish independence that well, though I strongly oppose monarchism, so I suppose I would most likely be a republican unionist if I was Scottish. Honestly though I just believe it should be left up for the Scottish people to decide.

I support Scottish independence because I tend to support decentralization on general principle as long as it's not an excuse for a reactionary agenda.

The argument is mainly that Scotland has its own history, culture, etc. and a thriving economy and that power is overly centered in London in the present UK. The one thing I don't like about Scottish separatism is that some Scottish separatists come off as strong advocates for the North Sea oil industry. Independence should not come at the expense of sustainability.

[Warda]

I personally don't really understand the reasoning behind Scottish independence that well, though I strongly oppose monarchism, so I suppose I would most likely be a republican unionist if I was Scottish. Honestly though I just believe it should be left up for the Scottish people to decide.

Fur the lulz is their reason.

[Unionist State of Scotland]

I think republicanism would probably make the most sense for an independent Scotland. I could also kinda understand instating a Scottish monarch, though I wouldn't want it to happen myself. Keeping the Queen would sorta be defeating the purpose.

If the purpose is sticking it to the English rather than just seeking more control over Scotland's national trajectory, then yes, it would defeat the purpose. If not (and I'm fairly certain it's not), I don't see how transitioning to a Commonwealth Realm is necessarily inconsistent with an independent Scotland.

I, personally, am pro-Union and pro-Monarchy. No particularly non-emotional reason.

Edit: I'm half-Scottish, but... yeah, I guess I'm pretty English. Didn't realise this was meant for Scots.

Hay your British, your a part of both debates

[Unionist State of Scotland]

I've added a poll.


Go ahead and vote

[Hushabagain]

I personally don't really understand the reasoning behind Scottish independence that well, though I strongly oppose monarchism, so I suppose I would most likely be a republican unionist if I was Scottish. Honestly though I just believe it should be left up for the Scottish people to decide.

Fur the lulz is their reason.

Or... wanting to have the legal rights to their own sovereign nation as they once did for millennium before British occupation? Y'know... self-determination...

[The Shambles]

I think republicanism would probably make the most sense for an independent Scotland. I could also kinda understand instating a Scottish monarch, though I wouldn't want it to happen myself. Keeping the Queen would sorta be defeating the purpose.

If the purpose is sticking it to the English rather than just seeking more control over Scotland's national trajectory, then yes, it would defeat the purpose. If not (and I'm fairly certain it's not), I don't see how transitioning to a Commonwealth Realm is necessarily inconsistent with an independent Scotland.

I, personally, am pro-Union and pro-Monarchy. No particularly non-emotional reason.

Edit: I'm half-Scottish, but... yeah, I guess I'm pretty English. Didn't realise this was meant for Scots.

You couldn't put it past Salmond to be doing just that, getting the election result was quite the score against Labour (to whom he said that the SNP were now "more Labour than Labour"); and now the referendum is setting up to score against the rest of the "British establishment". I just don't think -- as you appear not to either -- whether there's a path even drafted in pencil in the event of a "Yes" vote.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm republican and unionist.

[Warda]

Fur the lulz is their reason.

Or... wanting to have the legal rights to their own sovereign nation as they once did for millennium before British occupation? Y'know... self-determination...

u dun no wa british means
They were barley a nation and much more of waring tribes for most of their history.

[Unionist State of Scotland]

Disclaimer: I'm not a Scot.

Neither am I.

I personally don't really understand the reasoning behind Scottish independence that well, though I strongly oppose monarchism, so I suppose I would most likely be a republican unionist if I was Scottish. Honestly though I just believe it should be left up for the Scottish people to decide.

I support Scottish independence because I tend to support decentralization on general principle as long as it's not an excuse for a reactionary agenda.

The argument is mainly that Scotland has its own history, culture, etc. and a thriving economy and that power is overly centered in London in the present UK.

I agree we have our own culture but we share the vast majority of our history and values with the rest of the Isles, which is why I don't see any real reason for independence. Though decentralisation through devolution and federalism has always been my firmly held belief.

[Warda]

I'm republican and unionist.

I don't see what having a Queen is doing to ruin the democracy.

[The Shambles]

So Uni's and nats, What is your position on the Monarchy?

It's powerless anyway, so why keep it?

For all the "but the tourism!" crowd - imagine if Buckingham Palace was open to the public 24/7!

I think the "powerless anyway so why keep it" argument can be squared up to by - if not necessarily defeated by - the point that the only alternative would be a partisan president. We're not a country fond of being run by an elite, which might seem contradictory given that we're pretty happy being subjects under an hereditary monarchy, but post-Diana it seems that a very British compromise has been agreed upon.

If the alternative was a somewhat NationStates style middle way, where Parliament voted for a Prime Minister and the Windsor-Mountbatten family became Irish style powerless Presidential heads-of-state, then there could be something in that for a post-2014 Scotland.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm republican and unionist.

I don't see what having a Queen is doing to ruin the democracy.

It's a symbolic issue.
I'd much rather we keep the current system but replace the Queen with a Governor General.
And also make the system more federal in nature.

[Unionist State of Scotland]

I'm republican and unionist.

The United Republic of Great Britain and NI? While I'm a monarchist I'd take the Union over the Monarchy any day.

[The Shambles]

Neither am I.



I support Scottish independence because I tend to support decentralization on general principle as long as it's not an excuse for a reactionary agenda.

The argument is mainly that Scotland has its own history, culture, etc. and a thriving economy and that power is overly centered in London in the present UK.

I agree we have our own culture but we share the vast majority of our history and values with the rest of the Isles, which is why I don't see any real reason for independence. Though decentralisation through devolution and federalism has always been my firmly held belief.

Would you vote for (or agree with) DevoMax then?

[Hushabagain]

Or... wanting to have the legal rights to their own sovereign nation as they once did for millennium before British occupation? Y'know... self-determination...

u dun no wa british means
They were barley a nation and much more of waring tribes for most of their history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_n ... iddle_Ages
I do know what British means. It's the term the English invented to make their new "union" sound like an equal merging of England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. You don't know anything about history, much less its ramifications for modern politics, and this is demonstrated in your argument.