NSG Culture and the rules

[Nadkor]

How is it not admission when you say "Man, I should go to places where child prostitution is legal. They roll out the red carpet for people like me."

Possibly a controversial opinion, but has the guy broken any laws having sex with young girls in countries where that's legal?

Vile? Yes. But illegal?

Yes.

Many countries make it an offence for one of their citizens to engage in child sex tourism.

[Ostroeuropa]

Then maybe we need a new group of staff to deal with this type of shit.

Why? Players who are desperate to prove they're right roam these wild lands. Why appoint new staff if you got those around?

Some of you thoroughly proved it by gathering up all that info. Present your findings to the Mods and they'll act on it. Seems to work fine if you ask me, since ZS got his just desserts. It's actually a better system than having staff dig it up and make the ruling. Two separate groups rather than one.

If they're presented with all the proof, they'll see sense. It's just because reports are spread over a period of time that the Mods can't be expected to remember every single infraction. It's not like we have a database on this forum.

So maybe we should have an unofficial neighbourhood watch organization and forum.
Compile files on people and stuff.

[Trotskylvania]

The mods protected a child rapist. Any mod who was an active part in that decision is a criminal. Period. This is both my stance on the issue, and is it a stance I am sure legal authorities would agree with.

Any mod involved in the decision to allow a child rapist to post on a 13+ forum should no longer be a mod. Period.

And all the bootlicks pretending like the MODS JUST DIDN'T KNOW are lying to themselves and everyone else.

Um. Pull back the reins.

Criticism, even unfair criticism, of Moderations decisions, policies, etc.

Calling a group of Mods criminals if beyond the pale. Based on limited information, I am outraged by what appeared to have happened. But even the worst interpretation of the worst allegations I have seen does not amount to criminal activity.

It is not surprising that any group of humans will make mistakes. Even huge, horrifying, seemingly incomprehensible errors. It is not realistic or reasonable to expect that not to happen. Overreacting and demanding harsh punishment upon members of Moderation will not help and will only discourage anyone with any sense from wanting to be a Mod.

The circling of wagons, refusal to admit mistakes, refusal to correct errors, and absurd excuses are a whole different and very real problem. Threatening to tar and feather Mods will make that problem worse and give them every reason to write off criticism as hysterical rants.

This is not up for debate. Under US federal law, there are abundant criminal implications for Zeonic States' use of this forum to discuss not just his illegal activity, but also advocate for and aid others to commit similar acts. Having been informed of this, refusing to act and to continue to allow him the use of this forum and not take reasonable efforts to prevent and report constitutes aiding and abetting.

This is not something to joke about. In all likelihood, nothing would have come of it. But let's be frank: there was a potentially criminal level of negligence going on, and it is not beyond the pale to suggest it.

[Souseiseki]

As an international site, I've often wondered. NS is governed by the laws of the country where the servers are hosted?

The usual litmus test of moderation is "If it's illegal in the US you can't talk about it". Even if it's legal in parts of the US (such as marijuana) they still refuse to allow discussion. So there's no excuse beyond incompetence.

or tax evasion, which is ok, because they're not the IRS!

[Napkiraly]

1. Pretty sure I broke the rules once when I kinda went calm furry ape shit on someone accusing me of racism simply because I pointed out that race isn't real in a biological context (anyone who wants to dispute that, create a new thread). Didn't get a warning or anything though, so maybe it was still kosher.

2. As for the whole mods thingy. I...do get frustrated at times with rulings or lack thereof, but nothing is perfect. However, the Zeonic States fiasco is simply and utterly inexcusable. The mods who were made aware of that crap and didn't act accordingly need to be removed from the mod staff. It is possibly the blackest spot on the mods record (or at least since I've been here). It is revolting that Zeonic was allowed to be here after it was brought to their attention.

[Choronzon]

As an international site, I've often wondered. NS is governed by the laws of the country where the servers are hosted?

The usual litmus test of moderation is "If it's illegal in the US you can't talk about it". Even if it's legal in parts of the US (such as marijuana) they still refuse to allow discussion. So there's no excuse beyond incompetence.

Talking about a joint? LOL BAN

Talking about going to another country and raping kids? Totally legitimate opinion we must all debate.

[Choronzon]

The usual litmus test of moderation is "If it's illegal in the US you can't talk about it". Even if it's legal in parts of the US (such as marijuana) they still refuse to allow discussion. So there's no excuse beyond incompetence.

or tax evasion, which is ok, because they're not the IRS!

But they are, apparently, the DEA.

[Divair]

Then maybe we need a new group of staff to deal with this type of shit.

Why? Players who are desperate to prove they're right roam these wild lands. Why appoint new staff if you got those around?

Some of you thoroughly proved it by gathering up all that info. Present your findings to the Mods and they'll act on it. Seems to work fine if you ask me, since ZS got his just desserts. It's actually a better system than having staff dig it up and make the ruling. Two separate groups rather than one.

If they're presented with all the proof, they'll see sense. It's just because reports are spread over a period of time that the Mods can't be expected to remember every single infraction. It's not like we have a database on this forum.

Because it shouldn't take six months to deal with this shit. And what if you approached a mod after six months and, again, they told you (politely) to fuck off? And if this was missed for so long, imagine all the other stuff that has been missed.

[Khadgar]

Then maybe we need a new group of staff to deal with this type of shit.

Why? Players who are desperate to prove they're right roam these wild lands. Why appoint new staff if you got those around?

Some of you thoroughly proved it by gathering up all that info. Present your findings to the Mods and they'll act on it. Seems to work fine if you ask me, since ZS got his just desserts. It's actually a better system than having staff dig it up and make the ruling. Two separate groups rather than one.

If they're presented with all the proof, they'll see sense. It's just because reports are spread over a period of time that the Mods can't be expected to remember every single infraction. It's not like we have a database on this forum.

Here's the problem. It was reported when it happened and it was ignored. People had to go back and do the legwork for the mods who were too inept to check the first time someone said something. The defense is "you only reported it once".

That's their defense.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

As an international site, I've often wondered. NS is governed by the laws of the country where the servers are hosted?

The usual litmus test of moderation is "If it's illegal in the US you can't talk about it". Even if it's legal in parts of the US (such as marijuana) they still refuse to allow discussion. So there's no excuse beyond incompetence.

Yes, this was a display of incompetence. I was just curious as to whether the site needs to abide by the laws of the server hosting country or how that would proceed.

[Fartsniffage]

Possibly a controversial opinion, but has the guy broken any laws having sex with young girls in countries where that's legal?

Vile? Yes. But illegal?

Yes. Sex tourism is illegal.

Fair enough. I stand corrected and apologise.

Just replying to the first post that told me I'm a cretin, not the rest.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Then maybe we need a new group of staff to deal with this type of shit.

Why? Players who are desperate to prove they're right roam these wild lands. Why appoint new staff if you got those around?

Some of you thoroughly proved it by gathering up all that info. Present your findings to the Mods and they'll act on it. Seems to work fine if you ask me, since ZS got his just desserts. It's actually a better system than having staff dig it up and make the ruling. Two separate groups rather than one.

If they're presented with all the proof, they'll see sense. It's just because reports are spread over a period of time that the Mods can't be expected to remember every single infraction. It's not like we have a database on this forum.

Ah, you do know that the account system has a warning history on your account, right? As in they can see every warning or ban you've ever received.

[Ifreann]

How is it not admission when you say "Man, I should go to places where child prostitution is legal. They roll out the red carpet for people like me."

Possibly a controversial opinion, but has the guy broken any laws having sex with young girls in countries where that's legal?

Vile? Yes. But illegal?

In at least some jurisdictions. Won't claim to know the specifics of that particular case.

Note to self, do not walk away from computer and then post anyway in this thread.

[Esternial]

Why? Players who are desperate to prove they're right roam these wild lands. Why appoint new staff if you got those around?

Some of you thoroughly proved it by gathering up all that info. Present your findings to the Mods and they'll act on it. Seems to work fine if you ask me, since ZS got his just desserts. It's actually a better system than having staff dig it up and make the ruling. Two separate groups rather than one.

If they're presented with all the proof, they'll see sense. It's just because reports are spread over a period of time that the Mods can't be expected to remember every single infraction. It's not like we have a database on this forum.

So maybe we should have an unofficial neighbourhood watch organization and forum.
Compile files on people and stuff.

Many NS'ers already have a network of connection. No need to go even that far.

[Khadgar]

The usual litmus test of moderation is "If it's illegal in the US you can't talk about it". Even if it's legal in parts of the US (such as marijuana) they still refuse to allow discussion. So there's no excuse beyond incompetence.

Yes, this was a display of incompetence. I was just curious as to whether the site needs to abide by the laws of the server hosting country or how that would proceed.

In a case like this, where there's a potential for aiding/abetting charges. I would guess they have to suffer the laws of wherever the servers are yes.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

So maybe we should have an unofficial neighbourhood watch organization and forum.
Compile files on people and stuff.

Many NS'ers already have a network of connection. No need to go even that far.

Plus Ostro's idea is a bit much.

Report rule breaking like in the case of ZS, consistently. Would that make a difference? I surely hope so.

Address incompetence. We are all responsible for our judgement.

[Choronzon]

Yes, this was a display of incompetence. I was just curious as to whether the site needs to abide by the laws of the server hosting country or how that would proceed.

In a case like this, where there's a potential for aiding/abetting charges. I would guess they have to suffer the laws of wherever the servers are yes.

Look, I don't actually think any mod should be charged with a crime or anything like that. And I don't think every mod is culpable. As you said, the mods shouldn't have to babysit their fellow mods, especially when the fucking SENIOR GAME MOD says he handled an issue.

But the mods that allowed this to go on should have their mod powers revoked and be run out on a rail.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

In a case like this, where there's a potential for aiding/abetting charges. I would guess they have to suffer the laws of wherever the servers are yes.

Look, I don't actually think any mod should be charged with a crime or anything like that. And I don't think every mod is culpable. As you said, the mods shouldn't have to babysit their fellow mods, especially when the fucking SENIOR GAME MOD says he handled an issue.

But the mods that allowed this to go on should have their mod powers revoked and be run out on a rail.

That was concerning the DOS poster, actually. Not the mods.

[Esternial]

Why? Players who are desperate to prove they're right roam these wild lands. Why appoint new staff if you got those around?

Some of you thoroughly proved it by gathering up all that info. Present your findings to the Mods and they'll act on it. Seems to work fine if you ask me, since ZS got his just desserts. It's actually a better system than having staff dig it up and make the ruling. Two separate groups rather than one.

If they're presented with all the proof, they'll see sense. It's just because reports are spread over a period of time that the Mods can't be expected to remember every single infraction. It's not like we have a database on this forum.

Ah, you do know that the account system has a warning history on your account, right? As in they can see every warning or ban you've ever received.

I repeat: It's not like we have a database on this forum.

Sometimes people get warned without using the warn tags, which isn't registered in your 'history'. A single post that's suggestive but not really crossing the line may be ignored, and the Mods don't store this into some CMR in their heads that reminds them the next time they see one of those posts, and the next, and the next. On many occasions, only when all are put together and viewed at the same time do they notice "holy shit, this dude is dangerous"

[Khadgar]

In a case like this, where there's a potential for aiding/abetting charges. I would guess they have to suffer the laws of wherever the servers are yes.

Look, I don't actually think any mod should be charged with a crime or anything like that. And I don't think every mod is culpable. As you said, the mods shouldn't have to babysit their fellow mods, especially when the fucking SENIOR GAME MOD says he handled an issue.

But the mods that allowed this to go on should have their mod powers revoked and be run out on a rail.

Like I said, DOS the both of 'em. I don't want the hammer coming down on anyone but the perv. I am however extremely pissed about the whole thing.

[Ostroeuropa]

Is the Zeon debacle being investigated, addressed etc?
Has anyone actually gone to the mods and said "We want some kind of action taken."

[Khadgar]

Is the Zeon debacle being investigated, addressed etc?
Has anyone actually gone to the mods and said "We want some kind of action taken."

Yes there's an ongoing investigation. No they won't comment on it.

[DesAnges]

There are 452422 registered nations on the forum "Members" page.

Now, granted, I'd say that probably 75%-80% of these are either DEAT or timed out. So that gives us about what, about 90k active posters?

Probably less than that. Let's go for 50k.

There are 25 moderators and admins that operate on the forums. Twenty-five. That's just patently not enough.

[Esternial]

Many NS'ers already have a network of connection. No need to go even that far.

Plus Ostro's idea is a bit much.

Report rule breaking like in the case of ZS, consistently. Would that make a difference? I surely hope so.

Address incompetence. We are all responsible for our judgement.

I agree, the admin staff should be held accountable for their actions if they make mistakes or fall short.

We can't accept someone going "whoops my bad" a dozen of times and just go along with it.

[Ostroeuropa]

Is the Zeon debacle being investigated, addressed etc?
Has anyone actually gone to the mods and said "We want some kind of action taken."

Yes there's an ongoing investigation. No they won't comment on it.

In that case, shouldn't we wait for the result of the investigation before commenting ourselves?