NSG Culture and the rules

[Regnum Dominae]

i wasnt trying to thread jack. my post which started it all was about the state of right leaning debaters and a possible explaination of why they flame or are seen as otherwise unreasonable

But posts like this:

i may even be somewhat to the right of Hayek on economics. and i am more libertarian than Ayn Rand.

were pretty off topic (I admit that I fed the threadjack which I shouldn't have done)

Like I said, if you want to discuss why you think taxes are theft, create a new thread.

[Farnhamia]

And you're asking this question in a Thread entitled "NSG Culture and the rules" ... why?

i wasnt trying to thread jack. my post which started it all was about the state of right leaning debaters and a possible explaination of why they flame or are seen as otherwise unreasonable

I'm sure you weren't trying to threadjack. It's very easy to fall into one, though, when the subject that pops up is one you feel strongly about.

[New Randia]

mea culpa.

[Dyakovo]

no i am firmly in the "taxes are theft" camp. F.A. von Hayek, Ayn Rand, Freidman, Bastiat, Neal Boortz et al.

Why do you think taxes are theft?

Ignorance?

[Individuality-ness]

Why do you think taxes are theft?

Ignorance?

Dya, I don't think we should keep up with the threadjack.

NSG Culture and the rules -- I get the sense that many of the more prominent members of NSG are adverse to certain rules and/or moderators, with various complaints about how <rule interpretation> or <moderator ruling> encourages trolls. Yes or no?

[Tiltjuice]

Ignorance?

Dya, I don't think we should keep up with the threadjack.

NSG Culture and the rules -- I get the sense that many of the more prominent members of NSG are adverse to certain rules and/or moderators, with various complaints about how <rule interpretation> or <moderator ruling> encourages trolls. Yes or no?

I don't really get that impression, though I think the one thing that stands out is that those who have been in NSG for a while get some leeway from the Mods. How much that's affected by the players' experiencing NSG and not, instead, something else that I would have the brains to enunciate if it were earlier in the day and I weren't so burned out from homework, I can't say.

[Individuality-ness]

Dya, I don't think we should keep up with the threadjack.

NSG Culture and the rules -- I get the sense that many of the more prominent members of NSG are adverse to certain rules and/or moderators, with various complaints about how <rule interpretation> or <moderator ruling> encourages trolls. Yes or no?

I don't really get that impression, though I think the one thing that stands out is that those who have been in NSG for a while get some leeway from the Mods. How much that's affected by the players' experiencing NSG and not, instead, something else that I would have the brains to enunciate if it were earlier in the day and I weren't so burned out from homework, I can't say.

But is the leeway due to reporting bias (i.e. people don't report said user so often), familiarity with a person's posting style (which would help to judge whether a person was trolling or joking), or actual moderation bias?

Honestly, I think it's the foremost two. Furthermore, even posters who have been here for a while have been hit with rather long bans and other things, due to history or other things. And of course, the "I know you should know better than this" thing that is mentioned to many long-time posters.

[Edlichbury]

Ignorance?

Dya, I don't think we should keep up with the threadjack.

NSG Culture and the rules -- I get the sense that many of the more prominent members of NSG are adverse to certain rules and/or moderators, with various complaints about how <rule interpretation> or <moderator ruling> encourages trolls. Yes or no?

I'd generally believe so, but I also think that is entirely rational. As you spend more time anywhere, you are bound to get more connected. Eventually, the community means a lot more to you than it did when you began. Naturally, that also makes you much more defensive of it than say, a month-old nation. And should you stay around long enough to see an actual troll accomplish serious disruption, it is only logical that you would want to ensure that any future trolls are removed as quickly as possible. There is also the fact that to many new players, old nations with large post counts and moderators are both a bit scary. You don't want to make any wrong impressions, or at least most people won't. As such, over time players get more accustomed, less fearful, and more invested overall so complaining about "encouraging trolls," or any forum issue, is much less daunting and somewhat more imperative.

Certainly, some veteran players can cross the line and be too protective. But overall, I don't see so much as an "NSG Culture" issue as a basic forum issue.

[Individuality-ness]

Dya, I don't think we should keep up with the threadjack.

NSG Culture and the rules -- I get the sense that many of the more prominent members of NSG are adverse to certain rules and/or moderators, with various complaints about how <rule interpretation> or <moderator ruling> encourages trolls. Yes or no?

I'd generally believe so, but I also think that is entirely rational. As you spend more time anywhere, you are bound to get more connected. Eventually, the community means a lot more to you than it did when you began. Naturally, that also makes you much more defensive of it than say, a month-old nation. And should you stay around long enough to see an actual troll accomplish serious disruption, it is only logical that you would want to ensure that any future trolls are removed as quickly as possible. There is also the fact that to many new players, old nations with large post counts and moderators are both a bit scary. You don't want to make any wrong impressions, or at least most people won't. As such, over time players get more accustomed, less fearful, and more invested overall so complaining about "encouraging trolls," or any forum issue, is much less daunting and somewhat more imperative.

Certainly, some veteran players can cross the line and be too protective. But overall, I don't see so much as an "NSG Culture" issue as a basic forum issue.

I doubt that it's endemic to just NSG, but to any online (if not real life) community. However, as it is a thread titled "NSG Culture [...]", that's pretty much how we have to look at this issue.

I do think you're right though regarding how we tend to be more protective of things that we spend a large amount of time and/or energy on. If I'm allowed to digress slightly, it's pretty much the reason why many people are so stubborn and refuse to give up pesudoscientific treatments after they spend thousands of dollars on said treatment.

Again, that was a digression, so don't make this a CAM thread.

Anyhow, here on NSG, the oft-cited rule that "hurt" NSG was the trollnaming rule. I think most forum regulars know my position on the rule, as well as other prominent members' opinion on the same rule. I bring that up because this is specific to NSG, and hence our discussion about how most (if not all) regulars are determined to be rid of disruptions can be centered around this NSG-specific thing.

[Tiltjuice]

But is the leeway due to reporting bias (i.e. people don't report said user so often), familiarity with a person's posting style (which would help to judge whether a person was trolling or joking), or actual moderation bias?

Honestly, I think it's the foremost two. Furthermore, even posters who have been here for a while have been hit with rather long bans and other things, due to history or other things. And of course, the "I know you should know better than this" thing that is mentioned to many long-time posters.

I suppose so.

I doubt that it's endemic to just NSG, but to any online (if not real life) community. However, as it is a thread titled "NSG Culture [...]", that's pretty much how we have to look at this issue.

I do think you're right though regarding how we tend to be more protective of things that we spend a large amount of time and/or energy on. If I'm allowed to digress slightly, it's pretty much the reason why many people are so stubborn and refuse to give up pesudoscientific treatments after they spend thousands of dollars on said treatment.

Again, that was a digression, so don't make this a CAM thread.

Anyhow, here on NSG, the oft-cited rule that "hurt" NSG was the trollnaming rule. I think most forum regulars know my position on the rule, as well as other prominent members' opinion on the same rule. I bring that up because this is specific to NSG, and hence our discussion about how most (if not all) regulars are determined to be rid of disruptions can be centered around this NSG-specific thing.

I think it's a compromise for the sake of stability. It's not leaving anybody particularly happy, but I'm not sure if anyone's looked at the "Before" and "After" to see which state saw calmer NSG debates.

It's widely unpopular, true, but that shouldn't be a yardstick for a rule. I mean, I'd like to see warning/banning for multiple reports on the same issue, but I sincerely and deeply doubt that's going to be implemented. Even though I've seen complaints about that topic (albeit perhaps prompted by NSummer). And for all those who think corrupt Mods...there's your counterexample.

[Individuality-ness]

But is the leeway due to reporting bias (i.e. people don't report said user so often), familiarity with a person's posting style (which would help to judge whether a person was trolling or joking), or actual moderation bias?

Honestly, I think it's the foremost two. Furthermore, even posters who have been here for a while have been hit with rather long bans and other things, due to history or other things. And of course, the "I know you should know better than this" thing that is mentioned to many long-time posters.

I suppose so.

I doubt that it's endemic to just NSG, but to any online (if not real life) community. However, as it is a thread titled "NSG Culture [...]", that's pretty much how we have to look at this issue.

I do think you're right though regarding how we tend to be more protective of things that we spend a large amount of time and/or energy on. If I'm allowed to digress slightly, it's pretty much the reason why many people are so stubborn and refuse to give up pesudoscientific treatments after they spend thousands of dollars on said treatment.

Again, that was a digression, so don't make this a CAM thread.

Anyhow, here on NSG, the oft-cited rule that "hurt" NSG was the trollnaming rule. I think most forum regulars know my position on the rule, as well as other prominent members' opinion on the same rule. I bring that up because this is specific to NSG, and hence our discussion about how most (if not all) regulars are determined to be rid of disruptions can be centered around this NSG-specific thing.

I think it's a compromise for the sake of stability. It's not leaving anybody particularly happy, but I'm not sure if anyone's looked at the "Before" and "After" to see which state saw calmer NSG debates.

It's widely unpopular, true, but that shouldn't be a yardstick for a rule. I mean, I'd like to see warning/banning for multiple reports on the same issue, but I sincerely and deeply doubt that's going to be implemented. Even though I've seen complaints about that topic (albeit perhaps prompted by NSummer). And for all those who think corrupt Mods...there's your counterexample.

I'm (obviously) aware that it's widely unpopular. But I was curious to see whether the popular opinion amongst the more regular and prominent posters (who have spent quite a bit of time on these forums) is related to how much time we spent here.

[Tiltjuice]

I'm (obviously) aware that it's widely unpopular. But I was curious to see whether the popular opinion amongst the more regular and prominent posters (who have spent quite a bit of time on these forums) is related to how much time we spent here.

Probably. I can't speak for myself, but roughly half the time I spent in NSG was in TET. Once I quit TET, I largely quit NSG and returned to P2TM, where I'd started off.

It probably also helps that I have stress brains (stress balls shaped like brains). *nods*

[Agritum]

I agree wholeheartedly!

But, tell me, Caninope, why do you believe this is the case?

I've been wondering that myself.

My theory was once that NS's predominantly left-leaning population was an expression of America's own inevitable leftism...

Then I realized a large number of people on NS aren't even from America.

I'm not really sure. I know that college graduates tend to have a higher proportion of leftists among them than those with some college or only high school, and perhaps that could play into NS and the lack of an intellectual core. Perhaps it's the loss of conservative public intellectuals without genuine replacements (with two very notable examples being Milton Friedman in 2006 and William Buckley Jr. in 2008), which would fit with what seems to be a rising anti-intellectual backlash within the current GOP. Perhaps its the fact that NSG tends to attract people of more extreme political beliefs, or maybe it's all three rolled into one. I don't know, but it genuinely bothers me when I literally have people that I should be agree with (and vice versa) calling me a liberal.

Plenty of your admirers on this forum are liberals.

Myself included.

I guess we just love you Ike-style Conservatives. Or well, rational people.

[Edlichbury]

I'm not really sure. I know that college graduates tend to have a higher proportion of leftists among them than those with some college or only high school, and perhaps that could play into NS and the lack of an intellectual core. Perhaps it's the loss of conservative public intellectuals without genuine replacements (with two very notable examples being Milton Friedman in 2006 and William Buckley Jr. in 2008), which would fit with what seems to be a rising anti-intellectual backlash within the current GOP. Perhaps its the fact that NSG tends to attract people of more extreme political beliefs, or maybe it's all three rolled into one. I don't know, but it genuinely bothers me when I literally have people that I should be agree with (and vice versa) calling me a liberal.

Plenty of your admirers on this forum are liberals.

Myself included.

I guess we just love you Ike-style Conservatives. Or well, rational people.

I believe that more liberals on this forum approve of me, or at least my views, than self-described conservatives do.

[Agritum]

Plenty of your admirers on this forum are liberals.

Myself included.

I guess we just love you Ike-style Conservatives. Or well, rational people.

I believe that more liberals on this forum approve of me, or at least my views, than self-described conservatives do.

Of course, my Tory friend.

[Edlichbury]

I believe that more liberals on this forum approve of me, or at least my views, than self-described conservatives do.

Of course, my Tory friend.

Even though I'm pretty sure that was partially sarcastic, I'm counting it as an accusation of Britishness. Twelve more and I believe I get an honorary knighting.

[Individuality-ness]

I'm (obviously) aware that it's widely unpopular. But I was curious to see whether the popular opinion amongst the more regular and prominent posters (who have spent quite a bit of time on these forums) is related to how much time we spent here.

Probably. I can't speak for myself, but roughly half the time I spent in NSG was in TET. Once I quit TET, I largely quit NSG and returned to P2TM, where I'd started off.

It probably also helps that I have stress brains (stress balls shaped like brains). *nods*

Over half of my post count are due to TET, apparently, so you're not alone. The thing was that after I quit TET, I went to NSG (where I got my headstart, since I'm a Generalite), and then got into P2TM, then eventually mostly quit NSG and went to P2TM.

Stress brains? My school sells some!

[Mushet]

Probably. I can't speak for myself, but roughly half the time I spent in NSG was in TET. Once I quit TET, I largely quit NSG and returned to P2TM, where I'd started off.

It probably also helps that I have stress brains (stress balls shaped like brains). *nods*

Over half of my post count are due to TET, apparently, so you're not alone. The thing was that after I quit TET, I went to NSG (where I got my headstart, since I'm a Generalite), and then got into P2TM, then eventually mostly quit NSG and went to P2TM.

Stress brains? My school sells some!

Quitter!

[Tiltjuice]

Probably. I can't speak for myself, but roughly half the time I spent in NSG was in TET. Once I quit TET, I largely quit NSG and returned to P2TM, where I'd started off.

It probably also helps that I have stress brains (stress balls shaped like brains). *nods*

Over half of my post count are due to TET, apparently, so you're not alone. The thing was that after I quit TET, I went to NSG (where I got my headstart, since I'm a Generalite), and then got into P2TM, then eventually mostly quit NSG and went to P2TM.

Stress brains? My school sells some!

Fair enough.

Awesome!

[Individuality-ness]

Over half of my post count are due to TET, apparently, so you're not alone. The thing was that after I quit TET, I went to NSG (where I got my headstart, since I'm a Generalite), and then got into P2TM, then eventually mostly quit NSG and went to P2TM.

Stress brains? My school sells some!

Quitter!

As if you can't say the same.

Of course, my Tory friend.

Even though I'm pretty sure that was partially sarcastic, I'm counting it as an accusation of Britishness. Twelve more and I believe I get an honorary knighting.

So how are your meat and potatoes?

[Mushet]

Quitter!

As if you can't say the same.

Even though I'm pretty sure that was partially sarcastic, I'm counting it as an accusation of Britishness. Twelve more and I believe I get an honorary knighting.

So how are your meat and potatoes?

What have I quit? I keep on keeping on even when I should've quit a long time ago

[Seitonjin]

Questions: How to spot logical fallacies?

/sets out some tea

[Edlichbury]

Quitter!

As if you can't say the same.

Even though I'm pretty sure that was partially sarcastic, I'm counting it as an accusation of Britishness. Twelve more and I believe I get an honorary knighting.

So how are your meat and potatoes?

Now, I would be upset, but my fridge right now is literally filled with meat and potatoes. Far more leftover potatoes than any one man should have. I have a problem, and to solve it I am going to eat more of my potatoes.

Don't judge me.

[Individuality-ness]

Questions: How to spot logical fallacies?

/sets out some tea

Debate a lot. *nod*

I'm serious. If you debate a lot, you'll learn how to spot logical fallacies.

[Individuality-ness]

As if you can't say the same.

What have I quit? I keep on keeping on even when I should've quit a long time ago

Didn't you leave F7 at some point?

So how are your meat and potatoes?

Now, I would be upset, but my fridge right now is literally filled with meat and potatoes. Far more leftover potatoes than any one man should have. I have a problem, and to solve it I am going to eat more of my potatoes.

Don't judge me.

Eh, yesterday I had potatoes and meat for dinner. Well, with some bok choy and rice, but STILL!