Escaping the 'Gay Culture'

[The Parkus Empire]

I honestly think Ostro just wants all of us to blend in. to keep our gayness to the bedroom. to not challenge popular society at all in any way shape or form in our actions.

How terrible it is to blend in. To be thought of as a person instead of a gay person.

I think that you're making a distinction is interesting.

[Poopookakapeepeeshire]

that and one of their leaders is a lesbian

Your name is real mature. Real mature...

and?

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

Those people are worse than libertarian. They are freaken conservative.

No wonder I lost mah temper.

[Des-Bal]

Yes, it absolutely is.

Because that erases my sexuality.

When heterosexuality is no longer considered the default, then you'll have a point. Not util then.

No it doesn't. I don't take anybody who wants to be thought of as different or special seriously.

[Des-Bal]

I think that you're making a distinction is interesting.

I don't. That's exactly what steel magnolia wants, for people to be thought of as GAY people rather than just PEOPLE.

[Ostroeuropa]

Not in my town.

And you don't like displaying public affection with a girlfriend, either? This is peculiar.

In the city, yes. Probably.

That's understandable--perfectly understandable. But don't fault those who have to the courage to be utterly and "inexcusably" gay for the world to see. Don't tell them to "tone it down" because you're scared of bigots.

I don't like public affection with a girlfriend either really.
It's complicated. I have issues that i'm aware of. I wouldn't really consider myself a decent person to ask this line of questioning to, to be honest.
They can do it all they like. that's fine. But why do they insist on saying it's gay culture to do so?

[Des-Bal]

Those people are worse than libertarian. They are freaken conservative.

No wonder I lost mah temper.

You lost your temper because you're arguing about a subject you don't understand. You're also using political ideologies as slurs, because again you don't understand.

[Ostroeuropa]

I think that you're making a distinction is interesting.

I don't. That's exactly what steel magnolia wants, for people to be thought of as GAY people rather than just PEOPLE.

I am not a bisexual person.
I am a person who happens to be bisexual.

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

You are weird.

I would go naked in the street if it wasn't seen as a crime and reason to violence.

[The Parkus Empire]

Yes, it absolutely is.

Because that erases my sexuality.

When heterosexuality is no longer considered the default, then you'll have a point. Not util then.

No it doesn't. I don't take anybody who wants to be thought of as different or special seriously.

Stop faulting people who don't act just how you want them to, for trying "to be thought of as different or special".

[Ostroeuropa]

You are weird.

I would go naked in the street if it wasn't seen as a crime and reason to violence.

I wouldn't care if you did.
I'd only care if you turned around and said it was something you and I have in common.

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

Those people are worse than libertarian. They are freaken conservative.

No wonder I lost mah temper.

You lost your temper because you're arguing about a subject you don't understand. You're also using political ideologies as slurs, because again you don't understand.

Shaddap.

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

You are weird.

I would go naked in the street if it wasn't seen as a crime and reason to violence.

I wouldn't care if you did.
I'd only care if you turned around and said it was something you and I have in common.

Our maleness or our biness? I concede mine is very different.

My views on personal freedom, also.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

And you don't like displaying public affection with a girlfriend, either? This is peculiar.


That's understandable--perfectly understandable. But don't fault those who have to the courage to be utterly and "inexcusably" gay for the world to see. Don't tell them to "tone it down" because you're scared of bigots.

I don't like public affection with a girlfriend either really.
It's complicated. I have issues that i'm aware of. I wouldn't really consider myself a decent person to ask this line of questioning to, to be honest.
They can do it all they like. that's fine. But why do they insist on saying it's gay culture to do so?

Because by now, it is. That's been the case for centuries. The problem is when folks see it as the entirety of gay culture, but I don't think that any flamboyant gay people are trying to say that, anyway. The way to address this may not be to say "That's not gay culture!", but, rather, to say "Yes, that's gay culture, but it's simply not part of it that I identify with."

[The Parkus Empire]

I think that you're making a distinction is interesting.

I don't. That's exactly what steel magnolia wants, for people to be thought of as GAY people rather than just PEOPLE.

She wants being gay and expressing it, not to be thought of as abnormal. Expressing gayness as an aspect of oneself is not any worse than expressing any other aspect, even if folks like you want to make it shameful.

[Ostroeuropa]

I wouldn't care if you did.
I'd only care if you turned around and said it was something you and I have in common.

Our maleness or our biness?

If you're running around in the street and saying it's part of bisexuality to do so, i'd be pissed.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

I am a homosexual and don't really do any of the stereotypical stuff. Not in public, at least.

[The Holy NeoSpanish Empire]

its the posession of the demon¡¡ and MUST be banned¡¡¡¡

[Ostroeuropa]

I don't like public affection with a girlfriend either really.
It's complicated. I have issues that i'm aware of. I wouldn't really consider myself a decent person to ask this line of questioning to, to be honest.
They can do it all they like. that's fine. But why do they insist on saying it's gay culture to do so?

Because by now, it is. That's been the case for centuries. The problem is when folks see it as the entirety of gay culture, but I don't think that any flamboyant gay people are trying to say that, anyway. The way to address this may not be to say "That's not gay culture!", but, rather, to say "Yes, that's gay culture, but it's simply not part of it that I identify with."

Can you explain to me why it's gay culture, and not just a subculture that contains gay people.
I don't see the point in labeling social groups and cultures around demographics. It's divisive, almost always misleading, and in most cases unjustifiable.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

You are weird.

I would go naked in the street if it wasn't seen as a crime and reason to violence.

I wouldn't care if you did.
I'd only care if you turned around and said it was something you and I have in common.

*HEAVY SIGH*
If someone claims that, omg ur queer/gay/lesbian/bi so omg u must b lyke da ppl in pride parAIDS,
then you clearly need to just tell them they are an ignorant fuck and not talk to them.
Because NO ONE IN THE LGBT MOVEMENT IS CLAIMING EVERY LGBT PERSON IS LIKE THE FLAMBOYANT ONES. So stop getting fucking mad at the LGBT movement for establishing a safety zone and culture of acceptance!

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

Our maleness or our biness?

If you're running around in the street and saying it's part of bisexuality to do so, i'd be pissed.

It would be fabulous Brazilianness.

Bisexuality is part of fabulous Brazilianness but in other ways.

[Forsakia]

As a straight man, perhaps I don't get it, but I'm not exactly sure why it's up to gay people to tone things down in case the hetero folk feel uncomfortable. I don't especially mind (and I've learned to deeply appreciate certain aspects of queer culture from my own perspective), and frankly, attempts to make everyone assimilate seem from this outsider's perspective just as fruitless as attempts to make everyone dress in drag would be. This culture and method of personal expression has developed in the face of oppression over the course of centuries. It's symbolized and signaled safety and acceptance to the oppressed and the marginalized. It's even been the source of entire code languages.

And now some gay people want to escape it because it makes them feel less "normal"? Fine. That's your business. It's going to be far easier for you to assimilate into heteronormative culture in the West than at any time in modern history, so have at it. But don't put down those who still find joy in the society that was built by those who came before, and only grew stronger in the face of police raids, gay-bashing, mockery, discrimination in employment and housing, and neared extinction in the face of neglect by the government once HIV hit. It's a wonderful, radiant, and--if you'll forgive the term--fabulous culture, and I celebrate those who celebrate it.

On the one hand this, while also opposing stereotypes of gay people, and reinforcing those stereotypes by referring to "acting straight" which is offensive in itself.

But this thread is mostly people talking past each other.

[Ostroeuropa]

I wouldn't care if you did.
I'd only care if you turned around and said it was something you and I have in common.

*HEAVY SIGH*
If someone claims that, omg ur queer/gay/lesbian/bi so omg u must b lyke da ppl in pride parAIDS,
then you clearly need to just tell them they are an ignorant fuck and not talk to them.
Because NO ONE IN THE LGBT MOVEMENT IS CLAIMING EVERY LGBT PERSON IS LIKE THE FLAMBOYANT ONES. So stop getting fucking mad at the LGBT movement for establishing a safety zone and culture of acceptance!

Ignorance is fairly pervasive in society. If I disowned people every time they held an ignorant opinion, i'd be without friends. So would you.
Taking the time to educate people is better.
But the fact remains, I wouldn't have to educate them if they'd just stop calling it gay culture and call it what it is.

[Azrael]

Usually I'd be like, "yeah, the oversaturation of flamboyancy of gay men in the media is rather annoying" but it seems you're just flaunting some idealistic sense of male machismo rather than trying to convey actual humanity.

In other words, "awwww yeah muscles, working out, protein shakes, macho!!" isn't any better than "FABULOUS"
They're both contrived senses of gender identity rather than actual personality.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

*HEAVY SIGH*
If someone claims that, omg ur queer/gay/lesbian/bi so omg u must b lyke da ppl in pride parAIDS,
then you clearly need to just tell them they are an ignorant fuck and not talk to them.
Because NO ONE IN THE LGBT MOVEMENT IS CLAIMING EVERY LGBT PERSON IS LIKE THE FLAMBOYANT ONES. So stop getting fucking mad at the LGBT movement for establishing a safety zone and culture of acceptance!

Ignorance is fairly pervasive in society. If I disowned people every time they held an ignorant opinion, i'd be without friends. So would you.
Taking the time to educate people is better.
But the fact remains, I wouldn't have to educate them if they'd just stop calling it gay culture and call it what it is.

"Call it what it is"
Yes, we shall call it, "All those terrible, awful homos who aren't normal like me and think they have a right to an identity of their own that doesn't involve MY heteronormative standards!"