Escaping the 'Gay Culture'

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

Huh. I'm fed up with you two.

Have your goddamn ignorance and insult us of silly feminazis as much as you want. We will not concede. Period.

[Verbal Pararhea]

I bet you also think "homophobia" refers to being scared of gays, don't you?

No more than does hydrophobia in molecules refer to actual fear of water. Phobos is used in more than one way. Misogyny, on the other hand, pretty much means woman-hating. That's the direct meaning of the Greek roots.

I still fail to see how not liking every single possible personality type which may be associated with a feminine stereotype somewhere is misogyny.

[Bottle]

I bet you also think "homophobia" refers to being scared of gays, don't you?

Gays are like bogeymen, hiding in the closet, waiting until little Blaat is almost asleep and scares them

Now I'm picturing the Sassy Gay Friend guy leaping out of a closet with a butcher knife in one hand and a fistful of glitter confetti in the other, screaming "BOO, YOU STUPID BITCH!"

[Jello Biafra]

Disliking someone for being like a woman (however the person doing the disliking defines it) is also misogyny.

Gender roles are not inherently good. Disliking a trait because you think it's a bad thing is not sexist regardless of where your personal definition of gender roles lies.

It is when you dislike those traits because of their association with women.

[Bottle]

I bet you also think "homophobia" refers to being scared of gays, don't you?

No more than does hydrophobia in molecules refer to actual fear of water. Phobos is used in more than one way. Misogyny, on the other hand, pretty much means woman-hating. That's the direct meaning of the Greek roots.

I still fail to see how not liking every single possible personality type which may be associated with a feminine stereotype somewhere is misogyny.

Ah, so we do understand that "hatred of women" is only the very most over-simplified definition of the term "misogyny," then. Excellent.

[Des-Bal]

Huh. I'm fed up with you two.

Have your goddamn ignorance and insult us of silly feminazis as much as you want. We will not concede. Period.

"I won't change my opinion regardless of how patently wrong it is."

You said Bye several posts ago. After that good conduct dictates you stop posting.

[Verbal Pararhea]

Huh. I'm fed up with you two.

Have your goddamn ignorance and insult us of silly feminazis as much as you want. We will not concede. Period.

I never used the term "feminazi" nor did I imply any insult toward feminism. I simply pointed out that your particular definition of misogyny was so broad that it's essentially meaningless.

[Frisivisia]

Huh. I'm fed up with you two.

Have your goddamn ignorance and insult us of silly feminazis as much as you want. We will not concede. Period.

It's kind of what the Pedantry Patrol People do.

[Des-Bal]

It is when you dislike those traits because of their association with women.

Nobodies arguing otherwise. You're saying that because the traits are associated with women hating them immediately constitutes misogyny.

[Ifreann]

I've said it before, I'm a person with disability, We too are being marginalized and suffer from solitude. But we don't make a festival out of it now do we?

http://www.specialolympics.org/

Team 2003 up in this motherfucker!

[Jello Biafra]

Disliking someone for being like a woman (however the person doing the disliking defines it) is also misogyny.

Not if you deny the behaviour is related to womanhood.

(Whether or not there is such a person who denies that the behavior is related to womanhood), it doesn't appear as though the OP is one of them.

[Ostroeuropa]

Are there any gay behaviours we should know about, beside the obvious.
See, it comes across like you saying eating chicken is a Black person behaviour.
It sounds incredibly racist.
I readily concede that if you dislike someone for childbirth, you are probably a sexist.
But what feminine traits are related to being female?
How are they related, other than by people continually insisting they are?

Hunting on a certain stereotype means generally that you think they hold true and are a reason of mockery to that group.

Not the specific act of the stereotype itself but the kind of person that will have such absurd take of lifestyle, worldviews, taste or whatever.

You are making an enormous and disgusting strawman, and my patience with you already ended. Stop asking things if you are not sufficiently educated or is a huge hipster skeptic conservative to know better why [not].

I also dislike gangsta's.
Doesn't mean I dislike black people, because i'm mature enough to know that black people aren't all, or even mostly, gangsta's.
It isn't a strawman to point out that your objections don't answer my questions.
If anything, it's pointing out you are strawmanning.

[Verbal Pararhea]

Ah, so we do understand that "hatred of women" is only the very most over-simplified definition of the term "misogyny," then. Excellent.

So will anyone actually explain the connection here? What makes disliking a particular personality trait which is sometimes associated with female stereotypes misogyny? Which traits of personality is one "permitted" to dislike without being automatically misogynistic? It's such a vague conception of misogyny that it could be used against pretty much anyone.

[Jello Biafra]

It is when you dislike those traits because of their association with women.

Nobodies arguing otherwise. You're saying that because the traits are associated with women hating them immediately constitutes misogyny.

When the person hates them because of that association, it is.

[Orangi]

It can't be forced. In time it'll occur, the stereotype being dumbed down.

But we still have commercials and TV shows full of "Sassy strong black women who don't need no man™" everywhere.

Media portrayal of gays as, "FAAAABULOOOOOUUUUUS!" will exist for a long time. Not much anyone can do to force the social realization of, "Oh, so gays ARE human and not archetypes after all!", honestly.

[Ostroeuropa]

Ah, so we do understand that "hatred of women" is only the very most over-simplified definition of the term "misogyny," then. Excellent.

So will anyone actually explain the connection here? What makes disliking a particular personality trait which is sometimes associated with female stereotypes misogyny? Which traits of personality is one "permitted" to dislike without being automatically misogynistic? It's such a vague conception of misogyny that it could be used against pretty much anyone.

I keep asking for the connection.
Nobody's answered satisfactorily except Jello, who now agrees with us.

[Ostroeuropa]

Nobodies arguing otherwise. You're saying that because the traits are associated with women hating them immediately constitutes misogyny.

When the person hates them because of that association, it is.

Sure.
But noone has argued that that isn't sexist.
We've argued that merely hating them isn't.

[Verbal Pararhea]

When the person hates them because of that association, it is.

A because B.

B because A.

Do you really not understand the difference between these two propositions? Is this really that hard?

[Des-Bal]

Nobodies arguing otherwise. You're saying that because the traits are associated with women hating them immediately constitutes misogyny.

When the person hates them because of that association, it is.

"Nobodies arguing otherwise. You're saying that because the traits are associated with women hating them immediately constitutes misogyny."

[Faolinn]

Well this argument went just about as I expected it. The sad truth is that some people live up to stereotypes and those people get all the attention and some times that's reinforced by societal stigma. Society regarded gays as "unmanly" so they hit them with the stereotype which a number thereof probably internalized or adopted in an attempt to in a grand twist of irony claim for their own and forge an identity separate from the community that exiled them. I'd reckon that a fair number also decided to fight the stereotype by being anything but. Apparently the op seems to be coming from this second camp of thought.

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

Ostroeuropa, I don't care about your questions. You are only one whining. As I said, I won't bother with people who can't see an inch beyond them. If you can't see how hating feminity in males is thinking people supposed to be men are in a higher standard than people supposed to be women is a very clear form of sexism, no one in this world is going to make you see the fucking obvious.

The internet is neither your schoolteacher nor your babysitter.

[Jello Biafra]

When the person hates them because of that association, it is.

Sure.
But noone has argued that that isn't sexist.
We've argued that merely hating them isn't.

Very well. If it isn't sexism that motivates your hatred of flamboyance and over-excitedness, then what is it?

[Des-Bal]

Ostroeuropa, I don't care about your questions. You are only one whining. As I said, I won't bother with people who can't see an inch beyond them. If you can't see how hating feminity in males is thinking people supposed to be men are in a higher standard than people supposed to be women is a very clear form of sexism, no one in this world is going to make you see the fucking obvious.

The internet is neither your schoolteacher nor your babysitter.

If you won't bother stop bothering.

You said you were leaving.

[Ostroeuropa]

Well this argument went just about as I expected it. The sad truth is that some people live up to stereotypes and those people get all the attention and some times that's reinforced by societal stigma. Society regarded gays as "unmanly" so they hit them with the stereotype which a number thereof probably internalized or adopted in an attempt to in a grand twist of irony claim for their own and forge an identity separate from the community that exiled them. I'd reckon that a fair number also decided to fight the stereotype by being anything but. Apparently the op seems to be coming from this second camp of thought.

It's a majority, almost certainly.
10% of the population are gay remember.
1/10 people you see on the street.
Now how many times have you met an honest to god Prider?

[The Parkus Empire]

Anyone who hates gays because they don't like camp gays, is homophobic regardless. Catering to them is bullshit, it's letting them have power over you just like they want, and accepting the position of lessor is not going to make them all-of-a-sudden not homophobic. A lot of equality is about not having to fucking conform to what bigoted shitheads want.