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Who wrote the Bible?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Who wrote the Bible?

It was written by numerous people, each writing their account to achieve their own political aim, and was eventually compiled into a single text by numerous reactors.
131
52%
It was written and compiled from numerous sources, but still reflects the key messages from God and wasn't written to achieve political aims at all.
65
26%
Mosaic authorship exists throughout the Pentateuch, the prophetic books were written by their respective prophets, and all the books were written as an accurate, monotheistic account.
19
8%
The Bible was authored by the "K" or "Knoxist" source.
4
2%
It was written by Jesus, the God-fearing middle-class white American from Texas.
17
7%
Je ne sais pas.
14
6%
 
Total votes : 250

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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:15 am

Jehuddah wrote:As a person who read all of the Torah, I also noticed such a thing:
Why does in one place he is called Hadonai (In Judaism we don't say Yaweh but Hadonai) and at the other Elohim? And Shaddai?

But I didn't notice the different dialects, they are written in pretty much the same style (At least in the original language Hebrew in which I read in).


The Tanakh is divided to three,
the religious part,
and the historic part,
the mixed parts.

The religious parts include the prophets, the heavenly explanation to historic events etc.
The historic parts include the kings, the wars, the revolution, the exile etc.
The mixed parts include the exodus, destruction of Sodom and Gemora etc.

The historic parts are real,
now, I personally do not believe the religious parts.

I must say you did a large research there.

Interesting.

Jehuddah wrote:By the way, there are few books in which we know who wrote:
For example, Solomon wrote:
Mishlei
Tehilim
and Song of Songs.

Are you sure about that? Persian loanwords present in Song of Songs indicates a post-Exilic authorship.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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Jehuddah
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Postby Jehuddah » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:21 am

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:
Jehuddah wrote:As a person who read all of the Torah, I also noticed such a thing:
Why does in one place he is called Hadonai (In Judaism we don't say Yaweh but Hadonai) and at the other Elohim? And Shaddai?

But I didn't notice the different dialects, they are written in pretty much the same style (At least in the original language Hebrew in which I read in).


The Tanakh is divided to three,
the religious part,
and the historic part,
the mixed parts.

The religious parts include the prophets, the heavenly explanation to historic events etc.
The historic parts include the kings, the wars, the revolution, the exile etc.
The mixed parts include the exodus, destruction of Sodom and Gemora etc.

The historic parts are real,
now, I personally do not believe the religious parts.

I must say you did a large research there.

Interesting.

Jehuddah wrote:By the way, there are few books in which we know who wrote:
For example, Solomon wrote:
Mishlei
Tehilim
and Song of Songs.

Are you sure about that? Persian loanwords present in Song of Songs indicates a post-Exilic authorship.

The author claims to be Solomon:
Song of Songs 1 wrote:The Song of Songs, which is Solomon's.
Last edited by Jehuddah on Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by John of Giscala on Wed May 2, 68 19:32 pm, edited 3546 times in total.


Political test:
91% Nationalistic
57% Fundementalist
88% Reactionary
92% Authoritarian
31% Capitalistic
99% Militaristic
63% Anthropocentric

The Nationalist Militarist Party Headquarters:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=241535&p=14484567#p14484567
Likes: Revisionist Zionism, Jewish Ethnic Nationalism, Greater Israel, Cultural conservatism, Population transfer of the Arabs, Cultural isolationism, Militarism, Strong government
Dislikes: Antisemitism, Anti Zionism, Anti-nationalism, civic nationalism, "Two states for two peoples", Bi-National solution, Liberalism, Socialism, Communism

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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:21 am

The Realm of God wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:It's not particularly ludicrous, because one of the religions (Judaism) forms the theological and textual basis for the other two. When we observe Yahweh's origins, it's undeniable that he comes from a wider pantheon of gods that were eventually phased out because of political motives, and doesn't particularly suggest the interference of Yahweh in this transition from polytheism to monotheism.


Key word in your arguement is 'particularly', if we accept that God allows most things to happen ('good' and 'bad') then I'm sure he could have allowed some politicians to declare him the one true God.
But this wasn't his interference, it was the work of the Deuteronomist attempting to achieve King Josiah's political aims.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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Nationalist State of Knox
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Founded: Feb 22, 2012
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:22 am

Jehuddah wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:Interesting.


Are you sure about that? Persian loanwords present in Song of Songs indicates a post-Exilic authorship.

The author claims to be Solomon:
Song of Songs 1 wrote:The Song of Songs, which is Solomon's.

Just because the author claims to be Solomon, doesn't mean they were.

Unless, of course, you accept I'm actually Gilgamesh.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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Jehuddah
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Founded: Apr 23, 2013
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Postby Jehuddah » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:23 am

Jehuddah wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:Interesting.


Are you sure about that? Persian loanwords present in Song of Songs indicates a post-Exilic authorship.

The author claims to be Solomon:
Song of Songs 1 wrote:The Song of Songs, which is Solomon's.

Oh sorry, not Tehilim, but Kohelet was written by Solomon.
Last edited by John of Giscala on Wed May 2, 68 19:32 pm, edited 3546 times in total.


Political test:
91% Nationalistic
57% Fundementalist
88% Reactionary
92% Authoritarian
31% Capitalistic
99% Militaristic
63% Anthropocentric

The Nationalist Militarist Party Headquarters:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=241535&p=14484567#p14484567
Likes: Revisionist Zionism, Jewish Ethnic Nationalism, Greater Israel, Cultural conservatism, Population transfer of the Arabs, Cultural isolationism, Militarism, Strong government
Dislikes: Antisemitism, Anti Zionism, Anti-nationalism, civic nationalism, "Two states for two peoples", Bi-National solution, Liberalism, Socialism, Communism

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Pravengria
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Postby Pravengria » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:25 am

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:
Eaglleia wrote:Where's the "who knows" option?

Added.

Pravengria wrote:If I remember right, the exact composition that made up the bible during most of the middle ages, was created by the Romans, who decided what went in and what didn't. The first bible however, was written by the Greeks, before being translated into Hebrew. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

That's wrong in so many ways.


Did say correct me if I'm wrong lol, but the first bible was written in Greek. Not saying the Greeks created the content of it btw.
Last edited by Pravengria on Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jehuddah
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Postby Jehuddah » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:26 am

Jehuddah wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:Interesting.


Are you sure about that? Persian loanwords present in Song of Songs indicates a post-Exilic authorship.

The author claims to be Solomon:
Song of Songs 1 wrote:The Song of Songs, which is Solomon's.

And:
Mishlei 1 wrote:The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel, [are];

Kohelet 1 wrote: The words of Koheleth son of David, king in Jerusalem.


The interesting thing in Kohelet is that he doesn't call himself Solomon but Koheleth.
But he does mention he is Son of David, and King in Jerusalem so he must be Solomon.
Last edited by John of Giscala on Wed May 2, 68 19:32 pm, edited 3546 times in total.


Political test:
91% Nationalistic
57% Fundementalist
88% Reactionary
92% Authoritarian
31% Capitalistic
99% Militaristic
63% Anthropocentric

The Nationalist Militarist Party Headquarters:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=241535&p=14484567#p14484567
Likes: Revisionist Zionism, Jewish Ethnic Nationalism, Greater Israel, Cultural conservatism, Population transfer of the Arabs, Cultural isolationism, Militarism, Strong government
Dislikes: Antisemitism, Anti Zionism, Anti-nationalism, civic nationalism, "Two states for two peoples", Bi-National solution, Liberalism, Socialism, Communism

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Nationalist State of Knox
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Founded: Feb 22, 2012
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:26 am

Jehuddah wrote:
Jehuddah wrote:The author claims to be Solomon:

Oh sorry, not Tehilim, but Kohelet was written by Solomon.

Once again, that has Persian loanwords that date it to at least 500 years after Solomon.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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Jehuddah
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Postby Jehuddah » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:27 am

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:
Jehuddah wrote:The author claims to be Solomon:

Just because the author claims to be Solomon, doesn't mean they were.

Unless, of course, you accept I'm actually Gilgamesh.

You can't be 100% sure about that, but it makes sense that he wrote it, except for that he actually claims to write that.
Last edited by John of Giscala on Wed May 2, 68 19:32 pm, edited 3546 times in total.


Political test:
91% Nationalistic
57% Fundementalist
88% Reactionary
92% Authoritarian
31% Capitalistic
99% Militaristic
63% Anthropocentric

The Nationalist Militarist Party Headquarters:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=241535&p=14484567#p14484567
Likes: Revisionist Zionism, Jewish Ethnic Nationalism, Greater Israel, Cultural conservatism, Population transfer of the Arabs, Cultural isolationism, Militarism, Strong government
Dislikes: Antisemitism, Anti Zionism, Anti-nationalism, civic nationalism, "Two states for two peoples", Bi-National solution, Liberalism, Socialism, Communism

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The Realm of God
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Postby The Realm of God » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:27 am

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:
The Realm of God wrote:
Key word in your arguement is 'particularly', if we accept that God allows most things to happen ('good' and 'bad') then I'm sure he could have allowed some politicians to declare him the one true God.
But this wasn't his interference, it was the work of the Deuteronomist attempting to achieve King Josiah's political aims.



And God, who is powerful to the extent that he can do anything within his nature, couldn't have discreetly influenced a situation in which he would be proclaimed the one true God, I.e moved the heart of the King and the author of Deuteronomy I.e moved the heart of the author to write down his Law as well as engineering the Kings request thus ensuring that Judaism is created. There is nothing in the Bible that says he has to interfere in the Brian Blessed style shouting matches complete with burning brushes.

When we are talking about nearly all powerful deities we can't impose a limit on what they can or can't do.
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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:29 am

Pravengria wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:Added.


That's wrong in so many ways.


Did say correct me if I'm wrong lol, but the first bible was written in Greek.

You should try reading the OP, it explains everything.

The Tanakh (what we call the Old Testament) was originally written in Biblical Hebrew, although some books are believed to have been originally written in Aramaic (like Daniel).
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:29 am

Jehuddah wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:Just because the author claims to be Solomon, doesn't mean they were.

Unless, of course, you accept I'm actually Gilgamesh.

You can't be 100% sure about that, but it makes sense that he wrote it, except for that he actually claims to write that.

It doesn't make sense that he wrote it, because the book contains words that didn't enter Hebrew until 5 centuries after he died.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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Jehuddah
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Postby Jehuddah » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:30 am

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:
Pravengria wrote:
Did say correct me if I'm wrong lol, but the first bible was written in Greek.

You should try reading the OP, it explains everything.

The Tanakh (what we call the Old Testament) was originally written in Biblical Hebrew, although some books are believed to have been originally written in Aramaic (like Daniel).

A part of Daniel and Ezra are in Aramaic. (Not ALL but parts)
Last edited by John of Giscala on Wed May 2, 68 19:32 pm, edited 3546 times in total.


Political test:
91% Nationalistic
57% Fundementalist
88% Reactionary
92% Authoritarian
31% Capitalistic
99% Militaristic
63% Anthropocentric

The Nationalist Militarist Party Headquarters:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=241535&p=14484567#p14484567
Likes: Revisionist Zionism, Jewish Ethnic Nationalism, Greater Israel, Cultural conservatism, Population transfer of the Arabs, Cultural isolationism, Militarism, Strong government
Dislikes: Antisemitism, Anti Zionism, Anti-nationalism, civic nationalism, "Two states for two peoples", Bi-National solution, Liberalism, Socialism, Communism

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Jehuddah
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Postby Jehuddah » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:31 am

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:
Jehuddah wrote:You can't be 100% sure about that, but it makes sense that he wrote it, except for that he actually claims to write that.

It doesn't make sense that he wrote it, because the book contains words that didn't enter Hebrew until 5 centuries after he died.

Really? Can you source it?
Last edited by John of Giscala on Wed May 2, 68 19:32 pm, edited 3546 times in total.


Political test:
91% Nationalistic
57% Fundementalist
88% Reactionary
92% Authoritarian
31% Capitalistic
99% Militaristic
63% Anthropocentric

The Nationalist Militarist Party Headquarters:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=241535&p=14484567#p14484567
Likes: Revisionist Zionism, Jewish Ethnic Nationalism, Greater Israel, Cultural conservatism, Population transfer of the Arabs, Cultural isolationism, Militarism, Strong government
Dislikes: Antisemitism, Anti Zionism, Anti-nationalism, civic nationalism, "Two states for two peoples", Bi-National solution, Liberalism, Socialism, Communism

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The Realm of God
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Postby The Realm of God » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:31 am

Pravengria wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:Added.


That's wrong in so many ways.


Did say correct me if I'm wrong lol, but the first bible was written in Greek. Not saying the Greeks created the content of it btw.


The New Testament was written in Koine at a time when Jews were heavily hellenised and the lingua franca and the language of their common scriptures the Septuagint was Koine Greek. The word Pharisee refers to a teacher who did not adopt hellenistic and taught in the old languages.
Last edited by The Realm of God on Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:31 am

Jehuddah wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:You should try reading the OP, it explains everything.

The Tanakh (what we call the Old Testament) was originally written in Biblical Hebrew, although some books are believed to have been originally written in Aramaic (like Daniel).

A part of Daniel and Ezra are in Aramaic. (Not ALL but parts)

There is some scholarly debate as to whether Daniel was originally entirely written in Aramaic.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:33 am

The Realm of God wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:But this wasn't his interference, it was the work of the Deuteronomist attempting to achieve King Josiah's political aims.



And God, who is powerful to the extent that he can do anything within his nature, couldn't have discreetly influenced a situation in which he would be proclaimed the one true God, I.e moved the heart of the King and the author of Deuteronomy I.e moved the heart of the author to write down his Law as well as engineering the Kings request thus ensuring that Judaism is created. There is nothing in the Bible that says he has to interfere in the Brian Blessed style shouting matches complete with burning brushes.

When we are talking about nearly all powerful deities we can't impose a limit on what they can or can't do.

I guess our disagreements at this point are subjective.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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Surfistan
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Postby Surfistan » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:36 am

God obviously


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The Realm of God
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Postby The Realm of God » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:39 am

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:
The Realm of God wrote:

And God, who is powerful to the extent that he can do anything within his nature, couldn't have discreetly influenced a situation in which he would be proclaimed the one true God, I.e moved the heart of the King and the author of Deuteronomy I.e moved the heart of the author to write down his Law as well as engineering the Kings request thus ensuring that Judaism is created. There is nothing in the Bible that says he has to interfere in the Brian Blessed style shouting matches complete with burning brushes.

When we are talking about nearly all powerful deities we can't impose a limit on what they can or can't do.

I guess our disagreements at this point are subjective.


I knew you'd get my reasoning eventually, I'm approaching it from the standpoint of a theologian under the assumption that the deity exists and acts as theology says they should. If we are going to argue the existence of such a deity....well that's for another thread.
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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:40 am

Jehuddah wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:It doesn't make sense that he wrote it, because the book contains words that didn't enter Hebrew until 5 centuries after he died.

Really? Can you source it?

Okay, here we go.

Take, for example, Song of Songs Chapter 4 Verse 13:
Song of Songs 4:13 wrote:Your plants are an orchard of pomegranates
with choice fruits,
with henna and nard,

And in Hebrew:
Song of Song 4:13 wrote:יג שְׁלָחַיִךְ פַּרְדֵּס רִמּוֹנִים, עִם פְּרִי מְגָדִים: כְּפָרִים, עִם-נְרָדִים.


Here פַּרְדֵּס or "pardes" is a loanword for "orchard" from Persian. The Achaemenid Empire didn't control Babylon or Yehud until 5 hundred years after Solomon.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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The Truth and Light
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Postby The Truth and Light » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:46 am

This is literally the most fascinating OP I have read in years.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:48 am

Well it wasn't me.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm.
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What do we have that they should want?
We have a wall to work upon!
We have work and they have none
And our work is never done
My children, my children
And the war is never won

The enemy is poverty
And the wall keeps out the enemy
And we build the wall to keep us free
That's why we build the wall
We build the wall to keep us free
We build the wall to keep us free

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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:50 am

The Truth and Light wrote:This is literally the most fascinating OP I have read in years.

*takes a bow*

Ifreann wrote:Well it wasn't me.

I thought you agreed not to lie?
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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Menassa
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Postby Menassa » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:50 am

You are all aware of the Bible's Laws of not planting during every seventh year.

Well if an entire agrarian nation doesn't plant in one year... will most of them not die? How can they resolve this?

Crop rotation maybe... store up some food maybe... no the Bible says not to do that.

Say what you want about Biblical Authors but they said this Leviticus 25:20

You may ask, “What will we eat in the seventh year if we do not plant or harvest our crops?” I will send you such a blessing in the sixth year that the land will yield enough for three years. While you plant during the eighth year, you will eat from the old crop and will continue to eat from it until the harvest of the ninth year comes in.

Now what bronze age agrarian people would accept this upon themselves?

Food for thought.
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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:54 am

Menassa wrote:You are all aware of the Bible's Laws of not planting during every seventh year.

Well if an entire agrarian nation doesn't plant in one year... will most of them not die? How can they resolve this?

Crop rotation maybe... store up some food maybe... no the Bible says not to do that.

Say what you want about Biblical Authors but they said this Leviticus 25:20

You may ask, “What will we eat in the seventh year if we do not plant or harvest our crops?” I will send you such a blessing in the sixth year that the land will yield enough for three years. While you plant during the eighth year, you will eat from the old crop and will continue to eat from it until the harvest of the ninth year comes in.

Now what bronze age agrarian people would accept this upon themselves?

Food for thought.

What's your point?
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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