Sexism in video games.

[The Emerald Legion]

I mean, really, doesn't this just sum up the caliber of this poster?

I thought it would be obvious that would be more or less a sarcastic jab.

Her complaint is centered upon the fact that, apparently, having females who serve no purpose other than sex appeal, or at least, sex appeal, along with other purposes, is somehow "misogyny".

I suppose by the same logic, having characters in games who serve no purpose other than to be backdrops to the scenery, or provide you with items, should be considered some form of slavery and dehumanization. Ban NPC's!

It's idiotic.

Having female players who wish to play females, be forced to serve as sex appeal as opposed to being able to choose it is misogyny. Just like forcing a woman to go about her daily business in a bikini and heels would be.

You're forcing them to present themselves in a certain manner solely to please the male players. How is that not mysoginistic?

[Choronzon]

I thought it would be obvious that would be more or less a sarcastic jab.

Really? It looked like a pretty classical ad hom to me.

This is NSG. If you go "JK LOL" it absolves you of all responsibility.

[Nailed to the Perch]

That's nice, but I can't quite hear you over the sound of me STABBING THIS MONSTER IN THE BACK LIKE A BOSS.

That's nice, but I can't hear you over the sound of me actually fighting undead. Call me back when your rogues can go toe-to-toe with undead.

(And seriously, what campaigns aren't go feature a significant number of enemies immune to sneak attacks? Every campaign needs a healer.)

Yes, and every healer needs someone who can actually deal out damage to keep him from dying repeatedly.

(But seriously, healer classes are fun too. While rogue and roguelike characters tend to be my favorites, healers rank not too far behind. I'm not sure there exists a class I don't like playing from time to time.)

[Edlichbury]

Yup. Although I couldn't quite decide if that or "a game glorifying the Holocaust wouldn't hurt anybody!" was the more amazingly moronic line.

Go ahead and explain how that game, in of itself, harms people.

I'll wait.

Decapitation, in and of itself, does not kill anyone. Events that are directly linked to the decapitation and caused by the decapitation do. Yet you'd be pretty ignorant to claim that decapitation doesn't lead to death.

[Ostroeuropa]

I thought it would be obvious that would be more or less a sarcastic jab.

Her complaint is centered upon the fact that, apparently, having females who serve no purpose other than sex appeal, or at least, sex appeal, along with other purposes, is somehow "misogyny".

I suppose by the same logic, having characters in games who serve no purpose other than to be backdrops to the scenery, or provide you with items, should be considered some form of slavery and dehumanization. Ban NPC's!

It's idiotic.

Having female players who wish to play females, be forced to serve as sex appeal as opposed to being able to choose it is misogyny. Just like forcing a woman to go about her daily business in a bikini and heels would be.

You're forcing them to present themselves in a certain manner solely to please the male players. How is that not mysoginistic?

Is it misandrist that the male characters are forced to dress in a manner that makes them hulky and buff, something stereotypically attractive to females?
I'm genuinely asking.
For me it's both or neither. I'm not convinced yet.
It's an escapist reality, and who wouldn't want to be sexy. Most guys will like the way the girls look like that. Most girls will like the way the guys look, so it's just cost-effective.
Character customization, when it expands, will leave this thing in the dust anyway.

[Choronzon]

That's nice, but I can't hear you over the sound of me actually fighting undead. Call me back when your rogues can go toe-to-toe with undead.

(And seriously, what campaigns aren't go feature a significant number of enemies immune to sneak attacks? Every campaign needs a healer.)

Yes, and every healer needs someone who can actually deal out damage to keep him from dying repeatedly.

(But seriously, healer classes are fun too. While rogue and roguelike characters tend to be my favorites, healers rank not too far behind. I'm not sure there exists a class I don't like playing from time to time.)

Healers and crowd control are my favorites, usually.

Tanks are kinda boring. You just pretty much just stand there and yell COME AT ME BRO for every single dungeon.

[Edlichbury]

That's nice, but I can't hear you over the sound of me actually fighting undead. Call me back when your rogues can go toe-to-toe with undead.

(And seriously, what campaigns aren't go feature a significant number of enemies immune to sneak attacks? Every campaign needs a healer.)

Yes, and every healer needs someone who can actually deal out damage to keep him from dying repeatedly.

(But seriously, healer classes are fun too. While rogue and roguelike characters tend to be my favorites, healers rank not too far behind. I'm not sure there exists a class I don't like playing from time to time.)

I'm actually going to say, the healing class is one place I think games really improved. Most games now actually try to create a dedicated healing class without also implying that they're useless and you should feel bad for playing them.

[Ifreann]

Having female players who wish to play females, be forced to serve as sex appeal as opposed to being able to choose it is misogyny. Just like forcing a woman to go about her daily business in a bikini and heels would be.

You're forcing them to present themselves in a certain manner solely to please the male players. How is that not mysoginistic?

Is it misandrist that the male characters are forced to dress in a manner that makes them hulky and buff, something stereotypically attractive to females?
I'm genuinely asking.
For me it's both or neither. I'm not convinced yet.
It's an escapist reality, and who wouldn't want to be sexy. Most guys will like the way the girls look like that. Most girls will like the way the guys look, so it's just cost-effective.
Character customization, when it expands, will leave this thing in the dust anyway.

So... what about the fact that most males in Skyrim are ultra buff and full of muscles. Aint that sexism?

Male power fantasies are not the same as making women into sex objects.

Here's a comic to explain the difference.

[Ostroeuropa]

Yes, and every healer needs someone who can actually deal out damage to keep him from dying repeatedly.

(But seriously, healer classes are fun too. While rogue and roguelike characters tend to be my favorites, healers rank not too far behind. I'm not sure there exists a class I don't like playing from time to time.)

I'm actually going to say, the healing class is one place I think games really improved. Most games now actually try to create a dedicated healing class without also implying that they're useless and you should feel bad for playing them.

Yeh, the Healing has really gotten a lot better. It's still suffering slightly in single player, though Skyrim nearly nailed it.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Yes, and every healer needs someone who can actually deal out damage to keep him from dying repeatedly.

(But seriously, healer classes are fun too. While rogue and roguelike characters tend to be my favorites, healers rank not too far behind. I'm not sure there exists a class I don't like playing from time to time.)

I'm actually going to say, the healing class is one place I think games really improved. Most games now actually try to create a dedicated healing class without also implying that they're useless and you should feel bad for playing them.

I will kill shit for good healers all day every day from now to eternity if they give me those sexy green numbers.

[Aurora Novus]

Here's the difference: the effort to intentionally create a character that serves no purpose other than sex appeal is effort that could have made a character that serves the same role without the needless sex appeal.

Okay...but you could say that about most characters.

So, obviously your disagreement stems not fro the needless addition of sex appeal, but from the sex appeal itself.

When did sex appeal suddenly become immoral?

But unless you really don't play video games frequently, you'd understand that NPC's are pretty essential to give games realism. Most games would not function as well without them. But the vast majority games can function without relegating females to trophies, Macguffins, or eye candy.

Which again, is meaningless, because whether or not it needs to be there, has nothing to do with whether or not it's harmful.

And hell, games don't need NPCs, outside of a computer to make it a competition. Look at Pong.

So what this really boils down to, is why you think sex appeal is wrong.

[Aurora Novus]

I suppose by the same logic, having characters in games who serve no purpose other than to be backdrops to the scenery, or provide you with items, should be considered some form of slavery and dehumanization. Ban NPC's!

Holy fucking shit.

It's idiotic.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Mhm.

Come back when you have an argument dearie.

[Dakini]

I like my ranger.

You don't get the satisfaction from a bow like you do from a cannon.

Pft. I get satisfaction from siccing my tiger on creatures.



...also shooting them in the eye with my arrows. That's pretty sweet.


...and strangling them with vines and stabbing them with thorns. Also good.

[Neo Art]

Sounds to me like you're whining because you can't be unrealistically sexy.

I mean, really, doesn't this just sum up the caliber of this poster?

That just about does it, yes.

truly the best of the best.

[Ostroeuropa]

Is it misandrist that the male characters are forced to dress in a manner that makes them hulky and buff, something stereotypically attractive to females?
I'm genuinely asking.
For me it's both or neither. I'm not convinced yet.
It's an escapist reality, and who wouldn't want to be sexy. Most guys will like the way the girls look like that. Most girls will like the way the guys look, so it's just cost-effective.
Character customization, when it expands, will leave this thing in the dust anyway.

Male power fantasies are not the same as making women into sex objects.

Here's a comic to explain the difference.

I disagree that it's a power fantasy. It's wanting to look attractive.
For one thing, not all of the male characters ARE buff etc, but all are usually attractive.
In addition, female power fantasy is usually along the same lines. It's feminized power, attractiveness etc.
If you ask people to envision someone powerful of either gender, what are they going to think of?
Again, it's not necessarily a power fantasy in my opinion, but even if it was, it cuts both ways.

[Choronzon]

Holy fucking shit.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Mhm.

Come back when you have an argument dearie.

I refuse to bring my A-game to tee ball.

[The Parkus Empire]

I keep trying to post in the fucking thread, but every time I try to respond to something the stupidity of it hurts worse than an unanesthetized root canal.

[Warda]

pffftt I played real games were this is what my toon looks like when they die from me.

This is what real PvP looks like out in the open world.

Thousands of corpses and only a few of the best left standing.

pew pew pew

[Nailed to the Perch]

Yup. Although I couldn't quite decide if that or "a game glorifying the Holocaust wouldn't hurt anybody!" was the more amazingly moronic line.

Go ahead and explain how that game, in of itself, harms people.

I'll wait.

Either you don't believe Holocaust survivors or the friends and family of those who died in the Holocaust are people (which...would explain some things) or you somehow don't think someone saying, "It's so cool the way I can reenact murdering your siblings in front of you like the filthy kikes they are!" is harmful. Which would require a definition of "harmful" so fucking stupid that it defies belief.

[Edlichbury]

I'm actually going to say, the healing class is one place I think games really improved. Most games now actually try to create a dedicated healing class without also implying that they're useless and you should feel bad for playing them.

I will kill shit for good healers all day every day from now to eternity if they give me those sexy green numbers.

I will give anyone green numbers provided they prevent shit from killing me or kill shit for me. It's a wonderful symbiotic relationship.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Yes, and every healer needs someone who can actually deal out damage to keep him from dying repeatedly.

(But seriously, healer classes are fun too. While rogue and roguelike characters tend to be my favorites, healers rank not too far behind. I'm not sure there exists a class I don't like playing from time to time.)

Healers and crowd control are my favorites, usually.

Tanks are kinda boring. You just pretty much just stand there and yell COME AT ME BRO for every single dungeon.

I think tanks are awesome for that very reason.

"COME AT ME, BRO! OH, WHAT's THAT, YOU CAN'T TAKE ME DOWN THROUGH MY SHIELD WALL? WELL THAT'S JUST TOO DAMN BAD. NOW I'M GOING TO SMACK YOUR DUMB ASS AROUND AND ACT LIKE AN ASSHOLE. HIT ME HARDER, YOU PANSY!" ad infinitum.

Tanks are basically the biggest assholes in the room and make everyone else's life easier and more enjoyable, and they get to be tremendous assholes and enjoy doing it.

[Ifreann]

Mhm.

Come back when you have an argument dearie.

I refuse to bring my A-game to tee ball.

If you were really a lawyer you'd be on Youtube.

[Gauntleted Fist]

This is what real PvP looks like out in the open world.

Thousands of corpses and only a few of the best left standing.

pew pew pew

Let me one up you with a real fleet battle with real ships.

[Neo Art]

Mhm.

Come back when you have an argument dearie.

I refuse to bring my A-game to tee ball.

I mean, that's the thing right? I get paid a lot of fucking money to argue. We don't expect chefs to cook you a meal or architects to design your house. This is what I do for work. You want my time beyond what I find entertaining

Write me a fucking check.

[Aurora Novus]

I thought it would be obvious that would be more or less a sarcastic jab.

Her complaint is centered upon the fact that, apparently, having females who serve no purpose other than sex appeal, or at least, sex appeal, along with other purposes, is somehow "misogyny".

I suppose by the same logic, having characters in games who serve no purpose other than to be backdrops to the scenery, or provide you with items, should be considered some form of slavery and dehumanization. Ban NPC's!

It's idiotic.

Having female players who wish to play females, be forced to serve as sex appeal as opposed to being able to choose it is misogyny.

No, it's not. It's the limits of the game. Not being able to have it exactly how you want stems from the fact that you didn't make it.

It's not misogyny just because you don't get everything you want mate.

Just like forcing a woman to go about her daily business in a bikini and heels would be.

One problem: That would be a violation of human rights. It's oppression, and harmful.

Having the only option to someone in a specific videogame be a particular incarnation of a character, is not oppression, nor a violation of human rights. It isn't harmful. At best, you could say it lacks creativity.

But that's not the same as misogyny.

You're forcing them to present themselves in a certain manner solely to please the male players. How is that not mysoginistic?

Because it's not real life, it's fantasy. A fantasy built by the desires of certain developers, to be marketed to people who would be interested in it (usually adolescent males, who are more often than not straight and horny). That the fantasy incorporates certain desires doesn't make the fantasy misogyny, no more than a person's fetish makes them racist or sexist, because it doesn't include other aspects of other fetishes. It's a fantasy realm.