Sexism in video games.

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Healers and crowd control are my favorites, usually.

Tanks are kinda boring. You just pretty much just stand there and yell COME AT ME BRO for every single dungeon.

Yeah, tanks are probably my least favorite. There's times when it's fun just to be all "OH HAI I AM LARGE AND SCARY, COME AT ME BRO" (especially for someone me, who, in real life, is kind of the opposite of large and scary), but it gets kind of dull after a while. I like my characters small, fast, sneaky, and able to STAB YOUR KIDNEYS OUT.

I like when I fat finger my cooldowns as a tank and get to say to people, "Well, I guess i'm just going to have to ENJOY my invincibility!"

It's the funnest thing in the world in PvP for six or seven people to be beating on you and you just sit there going "Nanananana BATMAN" and leap out like you own the fucking place.

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Either you don't believe Holocaust survivors or the friends and family of those who died in the Holocaust are people (which...would explain some things) or you somehow don't think someone saying, "It's so cool the way I can reenact murdering your siblings in front of you like the filthy kikes they are!" is harmful.

The latter.

It generates no real harm. "Hurt feelings" are not real harm. They can, you know, not play the game.

Further more, simply playing such a game is not the same as supporting the actions or beliefs therein in real life. Again, it's fantasy. It's not real.

Or do you think every person who kills another "human being" in a video game is secretly a budding murderer?

It's only harm if you have broken bones, open wounds, failing organs, and the like. Emotional and mental trauma aren't real. Everyone knows that.

It's like we've done this song and dance before.

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Capitalism? People can do what the want with their money. Feminists are ridiculous.

No, people cannot do what they want with their money.

I cannot pay someone to go out and kill another person. I cannot pay someone to burn my trash instead of disposing of it. I cannot pay someone to splice a wire off of an ISP's main line to steal Internet. etc.

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You know, women are not the only one's being stereotyped in video games. Many games (i should say most) have a strong heroic man fighting bad guys and blindly following orders to save *insert something here*. If anything i think men get it worse in the video game world.

No, because men being strong and heroic and fighting the bad guys and kicking ass is a male power fantasy that's being fulfilled by developers. When men are the one being portrayed as both a) useless and b) only valuable for their desirability to be saved from distress by women out of their mancaves of terrible foreboding or w/e then men will be 'just as worse off'.

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Things men are good at:

1) growing large
2) throwing fire
3) flying like a raccoon
4) breaking bricks with face

Things women are good at:

1) being in another castle

Oh, now, be fair! In later games within the Mario universe, she also is shown to be good at

2) baking cakes
3) having mood swings

(I wish I were kidding.)

Japan is the fucking worst. Oh my god just the Asian gaming market holy fuck. People that deny sexism still exist just need to be pointed in Asia's general direction.

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No, because men being strong and heroic and fighting the bad guys and kicking ass is a male power fantasy that's being fulfilled by developers. When men are the one being portrayed as both a) useless and b) only valuable for their desirability to be saved from distress by women out of their mancaves of terrible foreboding or w/e then men will be 'just as worse off'.

So all men have this power hungry fantasy to be strong and stupid ? Or are you saying men like to be stereotyped? Either way i am sure you know none of those are true.

It's like you didn't even read my post. Wonderful.

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Japan is the fucking worst. Oh my god just the Asian gaming market holy fuck. People that deny sexism still exist just need to be pointed in Asia's general direction.

There's some degree of irony in this post.

Complains about sexism using national/racial stereotypes and generalizations about Asian cultures.

Japanese and Asian game developers in general are incredibly sexist and denying that literally just makes you look ignorant of their actual culture and its problems.

It's not fucking ironic because it's a not a stereotype. Sexism in the Asian gaming market is a fucking epidemic and defending it to me is going to get you laughed out of this thread.

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Please, name some modern games in which the woman are always needing saving.

It's like, the fucking cover, dude.

OK, that one is not entirely fair. The game subverts 'damsel in distress' extremely well. Ellie saves Joel's ass quite a few times, and I think, in the end, it made it out to look like Ellie was the real protector of the group and how Joel wasn't necessarily the main character so much as just the player controlled (mostly) one. Don't want to get too spoilery for people who haven't played, but saying The Last of Us is all about a guy saving a woman isn't necessarily fair or correct.

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We can disagree on various plot elements, again, don't want to spoil too much, but I think it's utterly untrue to say that Joel is not unambiguously cast as the protector. That's the entire point of their relationship.

That's what I mean. That was his role, y'know, it was spelled out and all, but, in the end when you've finished the game and it's like "That's a wrap", you can sit back and think about the game where Ellie stood up to Joel and said "No, we're doing this my way" or "No, maybe we should think about this/approach this differently" or even just when she kills some fucker that's got Joel in a bind. And I love that. Does it solve sexism in gaming? No, of course not, we shouldn't put that on any one game. But it felt like a leap forward. (Or at least a good hop.) I could connect with Ellie as just a normal person trying to cope with living in a wrecked world. She was not some impossibly beautiful woman who sat around on paradise island waiting for Joel to fix everything. She was right there in the action with him, and if she was sometimes absolutely terrified and had no idea what to do then that's fine with me, because I could understand why she would feel that.

So I mean sure we can be absolutely cynical and say it's just another game made by sexist developers trying to sell to males who want that damsel in distress rescue fantasy experience, but I'm willing to give The Last of Us a decent grade in being, if not free of sexism, at least much less sexist than many other escort type games.

Edit: Words are hard.

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That's what I mean. That was his role, y'know, it was spelled out and all, but, in the end when you've finished the game and it's like "That's a wrap", you can sit back and think about the game where Ellie stood up to Joel and said "No, we're doing this my way" or "No, maybe we should think about this/approach this differently" or even just when she kills some fucker that's got Joel in a bind. And I love that. Does it solve sexism in gaming? No, of course not, we shouldn't put that on any one game. But it felt like a leap forward. (Or at least a good hop.) I could connect with Ellie as just a normal person trying to cope with living in a wrecked world. She was not some impossibly beautiful woman who sat around on paradise island waiting for Joel to fix everything. She was right there in the action with him, and if she was sometimes absolutely terrified and had no idea what to do then that's fine with me, because I could understand why she would feel that.

So I mean sure we can be absolutely cynical and say it's just another game made by sexist developers trying to sale to males who want that damsel in distress rescue fantasy experience, but I'm willing to give The Last of Us a decent grade in being, if not free of sexism, at least much less sexist than many other escort type games.

that's sorta the point though. The Last of Us is, firstly, pretty much THE most recent AAA game out there, it's not just "a recent game", it's THE recent game.

Secondly, it's been hailed as utterly groundbreaking (and, in many ways, it is). A truly revolutionary game, genre defining, paradigm shifting, once in a generation, descended from the heavens, video game EXPERIENCE.

It has been universally HAILED as being "the next great thing", so it was explicitly seen as genre defining, AND the most recent modern game, therefore the one who had the least excuse for falling back on old stereotypes.

And what's on the fucking COVER of "the next great thing?" what is the singular defining plot element of the whole fucking game?

A dude, saving a girl. This is the most modern game on the market today, this is THE most advance, sophisticated game ever made. It has been universally hailed as one of the greatest games...ever. And it, at best, sorta pokes at the sides of the box that it's in. "kinda playing with gender expectations" is literally as far as the game that many call one of the greatest video games ever made, and, being the most modern, should be the LEAST influenced by old stereotypes.

I'm willing to give it a "decent grade" on that front too. I can do that, while still being disappointed that "one of the greatest games ever made" at best ranks "decent" and is, when you strip all the plot away, basically just another "guy saves girl" story.

Oh, I'm totally fine with being disappointed in it. It's not even close to the greatest game ever made or even genre defining (unless we're talking exclusively about escort-type games in which case it blows literally everything else out of the water). I'm just kinda poking at the way you presented it in case someone interested in the game got turned off by how it was being portrayed in this thread, because it's a great game that deserves to be played.

By all means, carry on, though.

Edit: It's not hard to be genre-defining if all we're talking about is escort games, though. I mean your competition is like Bioshock infinite (Eh, OK) and Resident Evil 5 (oh my god horrible).

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Everyone can relate to the fear of losing a loved one, and and thinking about to what extent they would go to save them.

Come on, stretch those critical reading skills a little.

And the last time a woman saved a man in a video game was......?

The only game I can think of where that happens regularly is Beyond Good and Evil, and that was in, what, 2003?

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Fuck, much of the great literature of Western civilization is sexist.

I would have a hard time enjoying something like that. How do you manage? I always imagined that social justice warriors would hate life and not be able to enjoy anything, because I can't enjoy something if I don't like the message it promotes.

You're right. I can't even eat meat anymore because a poor, cute animal suffered in the making of it. I subsist mostly on nuts and berries and other fruits. It's a hard life.

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It's possible to enjoy things even if they're problematic. Indeed, if we limited ourselves to media which weren't sexist/racist/homophobic/transphobic/etc then there probably wouldn't be much media to consume at all.

It's entirely possible to consume (and enjoy) problematic media while thinking about the broader implications in a thoughtful way. This seems to be something that a lot of people do not understand, since many here seem to be under the impression that thinking critically about something means that one is out to destroy everything and omgz!

I usually do limit myself to stuff that I don't see as promoting messages I disagree with. My urge to argue with the game would prevent me from enjoying it at all.

Then don't play video games?

No one here is holding a gun to your head and saying, "AND YOU WILL PLAY THIS GAME AND ENJOY IT. LET ME SEE THAT SMILE ON YOUR FACE!"

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You kick his ass pretty hard later in the story when he still has the key.

Only after becoming a Nightengale, and receiving powers from Nocturnal.

You all seem to be ignoring that Skyrim is an open world RPG. While Gameplay wise, you may be an all-powerful god, story wise, that might not be the case. And the point of the game is the story.

So while you may say "the fight was easy", that's speaking from a Gameplay perspective. From a story perspective, the fight was impossible (or at the very least, too damn risky) up until that point in time, due to the lore of the game.

Yes, the player character that single-handedly kills dragons and consumes their souls for power is definitely in danger from a character that's empowered by a Daedric being.

I mean this isn't a problem of the player character, story-wise, being an actual reincarnation of a godlike being with the power to slay mythic beast out of legend as their day job or anything.

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A single thief with the luck of the gods on their side? No, you wouldn't win. That's the whole reason you had to receive powers from Nocturnal in the first place.

A single thief with the luck of a Daedric being against the reincarnation of a literal god with the ability to summon the heroes of legend to fight in their time of need and a literal fucking dragon out of the sky to fight at their side?

I don't think you understand. The character, story-wise, is literally an overpowered godlike being gracing the planet with their presence to save it in its time of need after you've completed the main storyline. You kill mythic beast out of legend as a description of your day job.

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Don't give a fuck. I'll sail up to Aetherius and kick their asses. Because Badass MacBadass the Badass doesn't give a fuck about your problems.

You'll still never kill Sheogorath. He'll just teleport you so high above the ground that even you power won't save you from the fall damage.

Feather yourself, fool.

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True, death isn't a permanent consequence in games. But that's just for the sake of playability. The idea that crime is dangerous and illegal is still conveyed, although it's absolutely a subtext rather than one of the main points.

I remember the good ol' days were dying meant you had to restart the entire game back when death actually meant something.

Try dying in Everquest and losing your corpse.

Talk about easy nuclear anger material.

oh, oh! The best was talking in server chats with stuff like:

"I don't know how you guys made it to max level, I keep dying around level 18 and having to start over."

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If this is supposed to be a defense of Anita "Lottamoney" Sarkeesian, it fails.

It exhibits a completely different problem: she is, in fact, using the money to impulse-buy shitloads of video games under the pretense of "research". Riiiight.

It's almost like using the funds you acquire to fund the research and goals stated in your kick starter campaign is immoral to you. What, precisely, should she have used the money that she was given for a specific research purpose for? Hookers and blow?

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Should Link those you know.

More useful that way.

Some of those may be slightly out of context (I don't think so because I remember some -- but they could be!).

Technically, I think most of those are from one poster whose flag matches him to a t. But the fact remains that it has been established repeatedly in this thread that a great many people either don't think there is any sexism in games or that sexism in games isn't harmful.

By all means show us these great many people in this thread. Go on, we'll wait.

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Yes, because "I have an H-cup and no bra, look at me bounce! This doesn't hurt my back at all! *tee hee* Look at my hilariously inadequate armour! Oh, my hair got messed up when I did that, how terrible!" isn't cheesy. Not at all.

If I cannot look fucking fabulous and moan about dragons singing my hair in my MMORPGs I will seriously start lighting things on fire.


(The huge breast size things are super creepy, though.)

I am a DPS goddamnit, dragons shouldn't be hitting me! I worked for HOURS on my hair and male stripper suit. Farmed Ul'dah for five weeks for that subligar.

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They're games, it isn't even serious. At all.

And you know what? Just because it isn't serious doesn't mean it can't be rectified.

Oh, sure, I only have a quarter inch deep gash on my leg. It's not serious. But I should probably do something about it if I don't want it to fester and rot.

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Hahahahahaha.

AND MY BREAST LOOK AMAZING!

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Hahahahahaha.

AND MY BREAST LOOK AMAZING!

Back when I played WoW regularly, I always argued that if they wanted to have armor display as bikinis 'n' shit, I was fine with it, as long as it happened to the male toons too. I would totally put up with inane boobplate if the dudes had to prance around looking like morons alongside me.

You should play Final Fantasy XIV. They have male and female stripperiffic armor. And the top tiers of armor are actually pretty respectable on all classes.

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You should play Final Fantasy XIV. They have male and female stripperiffic armor. And the top tiers of armor are actually pretty respectable on all classes.

See, I think there should be a game where armor's benefits are hitbox-based. There would have to be practical and impractical armor for both sexes, of course. And you could choose to make your female character wear bikini armor. But she would probably get disemboweled in ten seconds. Or you could wear the practical armor and survive.

"But I'm a mage and I stand at thirty meters and I shouldn't have to be practical all I do is read a book and drop extremely large rocks on people and GOD DAMN YOU TANK WHY ARE THINGS HITTING ME? And fuck you healer where were my heals, you piece of shit! HOW DARE YOU BOTH LET ME DIE? I'm your best dps! Let me drop big rocks on things so they don't kill you, or me! L2PLAY!!!"

You have obviously never played with bad DPS in MMOs.

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"But I'm a mage and I stand at thirty meters and I shouldn't have to be practical all I do is read a book and drop extremely large rocks on people and GOD DAMN YOU TANK WHY ARE THINGS HITTING ME? And fuck you healer where were my heals, you piece of shit! HOW DARE YOU BOTH LET ME DIE? I'm your best dps! Let me drop big rocks on things so they don't kill you, or me! L2PLAY!!!"

You have obviously never played with bad DPS in MMOs.

I'm not really into MMO's, no. So enlighten me, what would hitbox-based armor have to do with that?

People that play tanks would wear practical armor because tanks are the ones that are supposed to get hit by things. Only.

And DPS/healers could just wear whatever the fuck and bitch at the tank/healer when they died because they're obviously not supposed to be getting hit. WHERE WAS MY GODDAMN HEEEAAALLLSSS??

Repeat ad infinitum because DPS are entitled shitheads. (And some healers. And definitely tanks.)