Sexism in video games.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Have video games and the culture around them really changed so much in the last three years?

Considering Tera was released in 2012 I'd say no, not really.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Considering Tera was released in 2012 I'd say no, not really.

But that is one game compared to a bunch of other games that were released.

That's me saying All rap is garbage because its all about rapping about money, big assed woman, and shooting people.

It's an example of gaming (Specifically MMO gaming) culture. Tera was considered acceptable to release to the gaming public and marketed in a highly sexist manner. Also a highly creepy one.

Sure, a few games that come to mind aren't terribly sexist (WH: 40k Space Marine, for example), but the gaming industry has not had some sort of sexual revolution. At all.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Not a revolution, more of a slow evolution.

That's an OK way to describe it, if evolution involves frequent retrograding.

[Gauntleted Fist]

...or you could just make them look like PEOPLE, with the normal variation in body types that occurs in actual human beings. It's crazy, but it just might work.

And it's do-able. See Saints Row 3.

You got to choose the size of your boobage.

The only game where I thought streaking was not only well-implemented, but hilarious in a slightly creepy sort of way.

As both a female and male character.

[Gauntleted Fist]

So is this one of those threads where we once again reveal that the average NSG poster has the cultural awareness and broader social understanding of a six year old child who grew up under a fucking rock?

Yes, yes I believe it is.

Fucking pathetic.

Is this where I post that, by admitting to playing many MMOS, I am a literal six year old man-child who can't understand why uppity females are the worst and they should just wear their Thong of Revealing Death that I worked for sixteen hours a day for two weeks straight to farm from Lord Moreass in the Badlands?

[Gauntleted Fist]

I think that's different. I think that's not what feminists want. Certainly not what I want for a plot oriented game (Skyrim is good, but it's not exactly a beacon of gender equality because of it's lack of story). Because for one, the main character, you, is devoid of any personality whatsoever.

I could only remember a few games that forces you to be on the opposite role and I'm not even sure if it's good enough. Beyond Good & Evil is one. Dreamfall. Those are obscure games at that.

I can't speak to "what feminists want," since I'm not all feminists, but I can absolutely speak to what a feminist wants.

I want games like Skyrim, in which I can choose to play as a woman and not be forced to turn my character into the magical Dragonborn Stripper in order to play the game.

I want games like Portal, in which both the voiceless protagonist and the rather talkative antagonist are female and it matters not one whit.

I want games in which I can play as a fully fleshed-out, preexisting character who happens to be female, rather than an endless string of "in this new, innovative game, you play as a muscly white dude! Because that is a thing you've only been in roughly 90% of all games ever!" Ideally, I'd also love it if I could sometimes play as non-white, gay, disabled*, overweight, etc. I want the variety of game protagonists to reflect the variety of human beings in the world. I also want those protagonists to be characters who may be impacted by their race, gender, etc. without it defining them in stupid, sexist, racist ways. (See the article linked a few pages back about Tomb Raider and the idea that players should want to "protect" Lara Croft rather than BE her. Fuck that noise.)

I want games in which I see heroes who look like me. I want games in which the people who look like me are not used as decorative objects or prizes to be won, but as characters in their own right. I want games in which not ALL the female characters are played as "sexy," and the ones who are are sexy for actual plot/character reasons rather than "look, boobies."

I want games that don't leave me feeling dirty for playing them.

I want games in which I'm a person. Simple as that, really.

*I recognize that this one, unlike the rest, can't just be slotted in to any character, but there are absolutely game concepts in which the PC could be in a wheelchair or missing a limb or something and it would in no way harm and quite possibly enhance the game.

I would be totally cool with a Professor Xavier X-men game.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Ok... imagine if you will, playing an MMO is sorta like going out in public. Your character is your clothes. How you dress affects how people see you.

Now, say you're a girl and you want to play a girl. Your options are usually somewhere around stripperific. At best you might, might get an Innoncent/Cute-moe option where you can at least not just be a walking set of T&A for male gamers to drool over.

Now, if you're a guy, it's not so big a deal to play as a stripperific female character. Noone cares. But play a stripperific female character as a girl... well... you get a bit more attention in ways you probably wouldn't want...

This is actually not true.

I can't think of any MMO that completely denies female characters actual armor if they want to wear it. I mean maybe if you're dead set on playing a clothie and only wearing clothie stuff?

The preponderance of gear is definitely in favor of stripperiffic, though.

[Gauntleted Fist]

One of the reasons I gave up on WoW was that I was sick to death of having to choose between "gear with the best stats" and "gear that does not display on my character as a bikini top and assless chaps, despite displaying on male characters as actual armor."

I played a female Blood Elf Mage and my tier armor was never that terrible? (Though that's raid armor so maybe you never got to raiding?)

Some of the lower level clothie stuff in WoW is really terrible, though.

Edit: Also Blizzard, being the thieving scum that they are, stole the cosmetic appearance option from other MMOs and introduced it as Transmogging. It's terrible.

[Gauntleted Fist]

I played a female Blood Elf Mage and my tier armor was never that terrible? (Though that's raid armor so maybe you never got to raiding?)

Some of the lower level clothie stuff in WoW is really terrible, though.

Edit: Also Blizzard, being the thieving scum that they are, stole the cosmetic appearance option from other MMOs and introduced it as Transmogging. It's terrible.

And they stole Orcs from Tolkien. Actually, they stole pretty much their entire game from Tolkien. And every other fantasy in the world (minus some of the Japanese ones)! Bastards.

I don't mind that they steal things. I do mind that they steal things and introduce it as an exciting new feature that's never been done the Blizzard way.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Your ignorance is showing, I suppose. There's only a 6% difference.

58-42 is not 6. It is 16. There is a 16% difference.

[Gauntleted Fist]

hmmmm

In fairness, people get called names on chat in games all the time, most people don't react at all.

I've seen people of both sexes lose it at shit said in voice chat. And I mean like ragequit, break shit lose it.

[Gauntleted Fist]

It's the reason I left almost every gaming community I've been in.

You know, it's funny. I'm in a cross game community. They have a hard and fast rule. Nobody under 25, the ONLY exception is children, siblings, and significant others of members in good standing.

Beyond that, it's a strict rule, nobody under 25. And anything that looks like anything that is considered "teenage" behavior (excessive swearing, rude behavior, antisocial use of chat channels) is an immediate removal.

It is one of the largest and most accomplished groups in the game.

And I can not fathom how anyone can argue that "teenagers are the core demographic" when a group that exclusively exists to allow adults to get AWAY from teenagers is one of the most successful groups in the game.

...GiA?

Because they were god awful at PvP in Rift.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Star Wars: The Old Republic.

In which you can literally shock (This is exclusively for one female character) and beat your companions causing them to cry. It's legitimately terrible.

Done by the same company that you advocate as 'progressive'. They're just a little less bad than most other development companies.

So violence against men is okay, but against women is not?

What the fuck?

[Gauntleted Fist]

How in the hell did you get that from anything he said?

I say that because Gauntleted raised no quarrel with men being tortured, beaten and the like in the same game.

Violence against anyone in a video game is fine. I play player versus player combat to brutally slaughter tens of thousands of enemy players of both genders.

Please tell me which male companion you can both torture and romance in a helpless situation?

I mean I think what the Sith Warrior did to Malavai Quinn was pretty goddamn brutal, but that can be done as both male and female so I'm not sure of any companion that is in the same situation as Vette but gender reversed?

[Gauntleted Fist]

Violence against anyone in a video game is fine. I play player versus player combat to brutally slaughter tens of thousands of enemy players of both genders.

Please tell me which male companion you can both torture and romance in a helpless situation?

I mean I think what the Sith Warrior did to Malavai Quinn was pretty goddamn brutal, but that can be done as both male and female so I'm not sure of any companion that is in the same situation as Vette but gender reversed?

Both? None that I can think of. But, you can still do the two things mentioned to different chars.
Anyway, I'm off before I tarnish what little is left of my reputation.

"But it's not sexist. You can do those things to other people. Just not in the same situation at all or with the same sort of backstory and context."

????

[Gauntleted Fist]

Even if it were sexist, does it really matter?

Obviously a thread about sexism in video games should have nothing to do with actual sexism in video games.

Are you really that sensitive that you can't handle it? If don't like it, you always have the option of not engaging in it.

For fuck's sake. Oh my fucking god did you not read any of my post?

I have literally thousands of hours of playtime and multiple max level characters on different servers. Holy fucking shit I play the FUCK out of Internet Lightsabers and Blasters. What in the ever-loving hell makes you think I'm too sensitive to handle it?

[Gauntleted Fist]

It's "morally wrong" to say, explicitly, "Your support will go towards production costs, equipment, games and downloadable content," and then spend the money she receives on production costs, equipment, games, and downloadable content?

You have a rather unique definition of "morally wrong."

Morality is relative, but still there's something icky about what she's doing. Again, she could get just as much information on these games from YouTube by watching, literally, hundreds of other people play rather than enjoying the games herself.

You know, for some reason, the idea that someone who is going through hundreds of video games to identify sexism in video games and why it's wrong and explain how it's wrong and to document where, when, and how it happens is only doing it because they just want to get someone else to pay for their video game habit is pretty hilarious.

[Gauntleted Fist]

You know, for some reason, the idea that someone who is going through hundreds of video games to identify sexism in video games and why it's wrong and explain how it's wrong and to document where, when, and how it happens is only doing it because they just want to get someone else to pay for their video game habit is pretty hilarious.

...
*quietly makes a new youtube account*

You can get Vegas Pro 12 for around $600 to start on your video editing career.

You'll probably want a nice media station that can encode extremely large videos relatively quickly. You'll probably need six or seven thousand dollars for that. You'll want high quality proprietary video capture software to ensure the quality of your capture is nice, so that's probably another couple hundred dollars. You might also want some audio editing software and high quality voice recording software. Also the hardware to go with it. That's probably another thousand dollars.

Might want to make sure you have a separate computer to do the actual gaming on with the capture software and a local network capable of extremely large file transfers. Maybe your own FTP server? Throw down ten grand for both of those easy.

Also buying the games themselves. Probably need a ton of evidence and documentation so budget yourself at least ten thousand for expenditure on games.

If you want high quality stuff you better be willing to throw down some serious cash. Might want to start a Kickstarter to fund your research campaign?

[Gauntleted Fist]

Obviously a thread about sexism in video games should have nothing to do with actual sexism in video games.



For fuck's sake. Oh my fucking god did you not read any of my post?

I have literally thousands of hours of playtime and multiple max level characters on different servers. Holy fucking shit I play the FUCK out of Internet Lightsabers and Blasters. What in the ever-loving hell makes you think I'm too sensitive to handle it?

I give up.

Look, at the end of the day, my question will remain this: is it really worth talking about a trend that is disappearing anyway?

Until it's nothing but dust and bitter memories.

[Gauntleted Fist]

I put on my robe and wizard hat.

I prefer putting on my twin daggers and face mask, personally. ROGUES 4 LIFE.

(Also, c'mon, rogues are way kinkier.)

Fuck rogues.

I play mostly clothies and they are my worst enemy in pvp.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Fuck rogues.

I play mostly clothies and they are my worst enemy in pvp.

pffftt I played real games were this is what my toon looks like when they die from me.

This is what real PvP looks like out in the open world.

Thousands of corpses and only a few of the best left standing.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Yes, and every healer needs someone who can actually deal out damage to keep him from dying repeatedly.

(But seriously, healer classes are fun too. While rogue and roguelike characters tend to be my favorites, healers rank not too far behind. I'm not sure there exists a class I don't like playing from time to time.)

I'm actually going to say, the healing class is one place I think games really improved. Most games now actually try to create a dedicated healing class without also implying that they're useless and you should feel bad for playing them.

I will kill shit for good healers all day every day from now to eternity if they give me those sexy green numbers.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Yes, and every healer needs someone who can actually deal out damage to keep him from dying repeatedly.

(But seriously, healer classes are fun too. While rogue and roguelike characters tend to be my favorites, healers rank not too far behind. I'm not sure there exists a class I don't like playing from time to time.)

Healers and crowd control are my favorites, usually.

Tanks are kinda boring. You just pretty much just stand there and yell COME AT ME BRO for every single dungeon.

I think tanks are awesome for that very reason.

"COME AT ME, BRO! OH, WHAT's THAT, YOU CAN'T TAKE ME DOWN THROUGH MY SHIELD WALL? WELL THAT'S JUST TOO DAMN BAD. NOW I'M GOING TO SMACK YOUR DUMB ASS AROUND AND ACT LIKE AN ASSHOLE. HIT ME HARDER, YOU PANSY!" ad infinitum.

Tanks are basically the biggest assholes in the room and make everyone else's life easier and more enjoyable, and they get to be tremendous assholes and enjoy doing it.

[Gauntleted Fist]

This is what real PvP looks like out in the open world.

Thousands of corpses and only a few of the best left standing.

pew pew pew

Let me one up you with a real fleet battle with real ships.

[Gauntleted Fist]

I refuse to bring my A-game to tee ball.

I mean, that's the thing right? I get paid a lot of fucking money to argue. We don't expect chefs to cook you a meal or architects to design your house. This is what I do for work. You want my time beyond what I find entertaining

Write me a fucking check.

Now you know how IT people feel when someone says, "Hey, you're good with computers, right?"