Sexism in video games.

[Frisivisia]

I want games in which I can play as a fully fleshed-out, preexisting character who happens to be female, rather than an endless string of "in this new, innovative game, you play as a muscly white
*I recognize that this one, unlike the rest, can't just be slotted in to any character, but there are absolutely game concepts in which the PC could be in a wheelchair or missing a limb or something and it would in no way harm and quite possibly enhance the game.

I feel the need to mention that in happy wheels, you can play as an old man in a wheelchair. It has rocket boosters as his special ability.

And an overweight black guy! And they all become amputees at some point!

[Frisivisia]

I now want a survival horror game where the protagonist is in a wheelchair.

That would be awesome.

It would be scary as fuck, you could have the wheelchair creek when it's really quiet, that's a pretty good idea.

[Frisivisia]

That would be awesome.

Make it like Amnesia dark descent and have it on the consoles

I would buy it

No awesome ideas for console peasants. Run along, play Call of Duty: Warfighter 8: the ReFranchiseWhoring: Ctrl C Ctrl V.

[Frisivisia]

No awesome ideas for console peasants. Run along, play Call of Duty: Warfighter 8: the ReFranchiseWhoring: Ctrl C Ctrl V.

Damnit joe I thought you were for the common folk!

I am. I'm for the common PC man. Console "gamers" aren't even really people, and can therefore not be assumed to be the common people, even if they are damn common. I liken them to mosquitoes.

[Frisivisia]

It's pandering to their primary market: horny, adolescent males. When your demographic studies indicate that lustful teen boys comprise the majority of your market, designing a product catered to their demands and then incorporating exclusivity ("this is full of babes for your penis, which only men have") into your marketing ploy is probably quite effective. Sexualisation is objectification, and sexualisation is a tool that those companies are using. While those advertisements are sexist in the sense that they discriminate against women, I'm not convinced that it's really problematic.

It's like having a bathroom of only urinals, and then putting up a "men only" sign. Your bathroom is full of men anyway, because you made it for men. You're just making that intent glaringly clear.

That would all make sense, except that teenage males make up about 13% of gamers, according to stats posted earlier in this thread. I am fine with a small percentage of games being targeted to that demographic. Make the occasional BoobieQuest or Tits of War. (Although while you're at it, you should probably also make similarly porny games for those who prefer male bodies.) But it is just plain stupid to market 95% of games towards 13% of gamers.

If it doesn't exist, I can't imagine there's a big market for it. If there's a market for female friendly eroge games and you don't think it's being tapped, maybe you could, to turn a phrase, tap that?

[Frisivisia]

One of the reasons I gave up on WoW was that I was sick to death of having to choose between "gear with the best stats" and "gear that does not display on my character as a bikini top and assless chaps, despite displaying on male characters as actual armor."

I played a female Blood Elf Mage and my tier armor was never that terrible? (Though that's raid armor so maybe you never got to raiding?)

Some of the lower level clothie stuff in WoW is really terrible, though.

Edit: Also Blizzard, being the thieving scum that they are, stole the cosmetic appearance option from other MMOs and introduced it as Transmogging. It's terrible.

And they stole Orcs from Tolkien. Actually, they stole pretty much their entire game from Tolkien. And every other fantasy in the world (minus some of the Japanese ones)! Bastards.

[Frisivisia]

A point no one has contested.




No, it wouldn't, because some people enjoy the over sexualization of males and females, or the exaggeration of certain character traits. For them, it's part of the fantasy, and they like it.

You're simply trying to justify forcing your subjective tastes down the throat of all gamers, and trying to pass it off as some crusade against a moral evil. But it's evident it's just you whining because you don't like something, and think no one else should be allowed to enjoy it either.

Yeah I don`t care much about the subjective opinions of sexists.

At a certain point, calling people names and declaring everything subjective just makes you an an-cap.

[Frisivisia]

At a certain point, calling people names and declaring everything subjective just makes you an an-cap.

Silence you Randian!

Silence is Subjective.

[Frisivisia]

It's not “victim-blaming,” it's a completely appropriate criticism of a certain part of Western culture.

That's your opinion, but it's still victim-blaming by any definition:

Women are also not served well by annoying "girl gamers" who really make a point of making sure you know they're female. It only makes all women in video games targets for trolls because they know that women attract white knights like lightning rods.

How do you not see where this takes the blame away from the people directly causing the problem with their decisions and shifts it to people who have no power over the situation and aren't really relevant?

I mean, did you really think through the argument? Women are supposed to hide their gender to appease trolls? No, that's sexist, victim-blaming garbage. Trolls are responsible for trolling, and no one else.

It's literal, objective victim blaming. Literally the victims of trolling are blamed for the behavior. You can like victim-blaming, and thus find it appropriate, sure. And I'm totally ready to believe that.

Cool your horses, Jesus Christ. I said that gurrrrllllll gamerzzzzzz do not serve the gaming community well and do a really great job of serving as (and forcing other women to serve as) lightning rods for trolls.

[Frisivisia]

I mean, did you really think through the argument? Women are supposed to hide their gender to appease trolls? No, that's sexist, victim-blaming garbage.

Yes, that's victim-blaming garbage.

I for one would not suggest that people hide their sex over internet trolls. That's just insane. What's equally insane is using one's sex as some kind of attention-grabbing device.

Which is what I was saying is bad. Trying to derive a sexist narrative for not liking ZOMG GURLLLL GAMMMERRRZZZ is pointless and stupid.

[Frisivisia]

42% female means 58% male. 58-42 = 16%.

Right, sorry, 16%. It was extreme-insomnia kind of late. Still, the behavior is aggressive toward 42% of the market. If cars were designed this way, the companies would go bankrupt. What little attention is positively paid to female gamers is often sexist and insulting too.

Perhaps if male gamers didn't treat them any differently -- that is, not picking on them for being female OR feeling the need to whip 'em out and fight to the death for their attention -- the attention-getting behavior you talk about would stop?

This. Kat puts it succintly.

It's a rather vicious cycle, isn't it?

[Frisivisia]

Cool your horses, Jesus Christ. I said that gurrrrllllll gamerzzzzzz do not serve the gaming community well and do a really great job of serving as (and forcing other women to serve as) lightning rods for trolls.

It doesn't help that they act like retards when they get trolled. It pretty hard to be trolled if you don't react to it.

I've seen girls cry on video games for almost nothing. I'm sitting here, playing Team Fortress 2 or CS, and suddenly a girl is wailing on the mic because somebody called her something. That's completely anecdotal, by the way, just some weirdness I've seen.

[Frisivisia]

I've seen girls cry on video games for almost nothing.

suddenly a girl is wailing on the mic because somebody called her something.

hmmmm

In fairness, people get called names on chat in games all the time, most people don't react at all.

[Frisivisia]

I've seen girls cry on video games for almost nothing. I'm sitting here, playing Team Fortress 2 or CS, and suddenly a girl is wailing on the mic because somebody called her something. That's completely anecdotal, by the way, just some weirdness I've seen.

This is why I muted everyone when I played CoD, it saved me from the eternal bitching of 12 year old's yelling "faggot" over the mic.

You learn to take special care to kill the screamers.

[Frisivisia]

Just because something doesn't personally appeal to you, doesn't make it wrong.

Indeed. Just because something doesn't appeal to me doesn't make it wrong. Being wrong makes it wrong.

I mean, seriously, dude, if someone made a game entitled "Nazi Power: Arbeit Macht Frei" in which the goal of the game was to brutally murder as many Jewish children as possible while yelling, "HEIL HITLER LOLOLOLOL" the problem with that game would not be "it's not to my personal taste." It would be "that is fucking horrible." (It would ALSO not be to my personal taste, obviously, seeing as I'm not fucking horrible.)

In the same way, my problem with misogyny in games is not "I don't personally enjoy it." There are lots of games I don't personally enjoy and in no way oppose - pretty much every football game bores me silly, for example. My problem with misogyny is that it's fucking horrible, and I'm sorry that I'm not going to waste my time crying for the poor, oppressed little sexists who just want to be able to see women as a collection of holes to stick a penis in without big ol' meanies like me telling them they're being douches.

Sounds almost like a joke. I can see a big, flashing, strobing "HEIL HITLER LOLOLOLOL" sitting there in the top half of the screen. I really shouldn't be laughing, but I am.

[Frisivisia]

Indeed. Just because something doesn't appeal to me doesn't make it wrong. Being wrong makes it wrong.

I mean, seriously, dude, if someone made a game entitled "Nazi Power: Arbeit Macht Frei" in which the goal of the game was to brutally murder as many Jewish children as possible while yelling, "HEIL HITLER LOLOLOLOL" the problem with that game would not be "it's not to my personal taste." It would be "that is fucking horrible." (It would ALSO not be to my personal taste, obviously, seeing as I'm not fucking horrible.)

In the same way, my problem with misogyny in games is not "I don't personally enjoy it." There are lots of games I don't personally enjoy and in no way oppose - pretty much every football game bores me silly, for example. My problem with misogyny is that it's fucking horrible, and I'm sorry that I'm not going to waste my time crying for the poor, oppressed little sexists who just want to be able to see women as a collection of holes to stick a penis in without big ol' meanies like me telling them they're being douches.

I think we've found the inverse of the "there is no such thing as gray" NSG teen libertarian strikeforce. It's the "there's nothing but grey" NSG teen hipster brigade.

On one had everything is exactly as it seems and there's no room for advanced and complex thinking, gay pride parades and the holocaust are equally evil! On the other hand, nothing can be known, nothing matters, everything is subjective, how dare you say hitler was bad, that's just subjective!

And thus their bitter war surges ever onward, locked in the eternal struggle of polar opposites, and yet bound by one great similarity. The complete, total, and profound inability to discuss anything like a fucking adult.

I'm of the everything's white persuasion, myself. No black or grey, just white. No exceptions.

[Frisivisia]

I've seen girls cry on video games for almost nothing. I'm sitting here, playing Team Fortress 2 or CS, and suddenly a girl is wailing on the mic because somebody called her something. That's completely anecdotal, by the way, just some weirdness I've seen.

When I play games online I'm normally the one doing the trolling, so trolling me doesn't work well. Good think I don't run into alot of crying girls on CoD. The vulgarly little boys are the funnest to pick on.

FUCKING BODYSHOT ASSHOLE I'LL FUCK YOU UP FUCKING NOOBSHIT MY MOM'S OUT SO I CAN SAY WHAT I FUCKSHIT CUNTING WANT FUCKCUNTSHIT

[Frisivisia]

FUCKING BODYSHOT ASSHOLE I'LL FUCK YOU UP FUCKING NOOBSHIT MY MOM'S OUT SO I CAN SAY WHAT I FUCKSHIT CUNTING WANT FUCKCUNTSHIT

This link is relevant: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/online_gaming

"GAY IS THE ONLY ADJECTIVE I KNOW!"

That was pretty gay.

[Frisivisia]

FUCKING BODYSHOT ASSHOLE I'LL FUCK YOU UP FUCKING NOOBSHIT MY MOM'S OUT SO I CAN SAY WHAT I FUCKSHIT CUNTING WANT FUCKCUNTSHIT

Yup. I love'em.

I like to play Sniper on TF2 when we already have too many just to make people angry. I've played matches on 2Fort with a literal wall of snipers on the balcony.

[Frisivisia]

I like to play Sniper on TF2 when we already have too many just to make people angry. I've played matches on 2Fort with a literal wall of snipers on the balcony.

Camping wall of snipers? Oh shit, that would be hilarious to see!!!

I used to play Combat Arms, my playing style pissed off alot of people. Liked to hide and ambush other players when they passed me. Oh boy, they didn't like that. I also liked to spam nerve gas, incendiary, and flash grenades.

I myself enjoy Chivalry: Guerrilla Warfare, where I sit in a bush with a crossbow and murder anyone who comes by. Rinse and repeat until people start respawning to try to get revenge.

[Frisivisia]

I like to play Sniper on TF2 when we already have too many just to make people angry. I've played matches on 2Fort with a literal wall of snipers on the balcony.

Camping wall of snipers? Oh shit, that would be hilarious to see!!!

I used to play Combat Arms, my playing style pissed off alot of people. Liked to hide and ambush other players when they passed me. Oh boy, they didn't like that. I also liked to spam nerve gas, incendiary, and flash grenades.

All the while we had a screaming 15-16 year old repeatedly shouting, "FIFTEEN FUCKING SNIPERS?!?! FIFTEEN FUCKING SNIPERS!!!!"

[Frisivisia]

All the while we had a screaming 15-16 year old repeatedly shouting, "FIFTEEN FUCKING SNIPERS?!?! FIFTEEN FUCKING SNIPERS!!!!"

That must have been gold moment

Oh my God, and how. Every once in a while they would send someone out and they would just get fucking obliterated.

[Frisivisia]

Things men are good at:

1) growing large
2) throwing fire
3) flying like a raccoon
4) breaking bricks with face

Things women are good at:

1) being in another castle

Oh, now, be fair! In later games within the Mario universe, she also is shown to be good at

2) baking cakes
3) having mood swings

(I wish I were kidding.)

4) Soccer
5) Every Olympic Sport
6) Driving Go-Karts

[Frisivisia]

So because its a woman they are saving its sexist?
w

Since it is a woman and only a woman, every time, always having a male savior. They literally stated in one game that Peach is kidnapped so frequently, her subjects stopped noticing.

Maybe it's just one of Peach's traits, being easily capturable.

[Frisivisia]

Please, name some modern games in which the woman are always needing saving.

It's like, the fucking cover, dude.

She's also a child, so, there's that.