Sexism in video games.

[Xeng He]

Why?

Could you perhaps be a little bit clearer? Maybe expand to more than a syllable?

At least treat us to a verb?

Do I seriously have to repost my whole thing on why automatically denouncing women in sexy outfits on the grounds of objectification is objectification, again?

I'm really getting sick of doing that.

[Zavea]

when it comes to design of video game characters, i think what's important is just making a good character regardless if they're man, woman or cthulhu.

metal gear solid is a good example of this, i feel. while it's guilty of sexualizing most of its female characters to a certain extent one might notice that they all have their merits, abilities (i mean meryl is a respected soldier, EVA was a super spy and naomi was a genius scientist, just off the top of my head), stature in the story and are in control of their own lives.

so, let's take the stereotypical oversexualized, one-dimensional female character archetype, which i gotta say is becoming a lot less common as game devs wake up to new ideas and trends in game design. it seems to me that it's generally the consequence of bad writing and character design rather than like... misogynistic or sexist tendencies.

[Zweite Alaje]

You don't know shit about Sophitia.

To be fair yeah, I really didnt pay attention to her. I was younger when I first played the game and was too busy with Mitsurugis's and Azazel's story... God that ending..

And I dunno, Sophitia was just annoying "I must protect my children". That is all I remember. Now, that Jap girl who wanted to kill Mitsurigi is interesting

If you're talking about Setsuka, she's not Japanese, not by blood anyway.

Ugh, yes. I like the Soul series as fighting games, but there are times when I just can't stand playing them anymore because of how ridiculous most of the women, and especially Ivy, are.

(On the bright side, I am REALLY GOOD as Talim, whom I started playing initially specifically because (a) her boobs are a vaguely plausible size relative to the rest of her frame, rather than being giant balloons attached to a stick-figure body and (b) she gets to fight in actual pants rather than a miniskirt or a damn dominatrix costume. She still has to fight in what appears to be a tiny tube top, but I'll take what I can get. *sigh*)

My fave is Seoung Mina. I just have to get the distance right, and BAM!

Seong-Mina's the shit, I'm boss with her!!!

[Zweite Alaje]

If you're talking about Setsuka, she's not Japanese, not by blood anyway.


Seong-Mina's the shit, I'm boss with her!!!

Wait she wasnt Jap? Oh, but she had that Umbrella and fought like a Samurai. Then again I remember her making an orphanage in Constantinople... so I guess she was an orphan raised by the dude Misturugi killed? My SC lore is rusty

Yeah, she was in Japan for some reason with her parents ( considering the time period, I'd wager she was originally from the Netherlands or Portugal, the only western nations Japan traded with back then. I believe SC takes place before the Sakoku era, so IDK) she got orphaned somehow, and Japanese swordsman took her in as his own. He's the one that named her Setsuka "snow flower".

I got pissed on the release of SC 5, they axed most of my mains ( Taki, Seong-Mina, and Talim). So, now the only mains I have left are Tira and Mitsurugi. Good thing I'm kickass with Tira.

[Zweite Alaje]

Seong-Mina's the shit, I'm boss with her!!!

You want to know the interesting thing about Seong-Mina? She's one of the rare examples of a Soul series character who has become less of an object lesson in objectification over time. Her outfits have become much more characteristic and the designers have toned down the fanservice quite a bit as time has gone on.

I don't mind the fan service, I play it for the fighting....

As long as the characters aren't fugly, I don't care much about how much or how little skin they show. Same with DOA.

[Zweite Alaje]

Yeah, she was in Japan for some reason with her parents ( considering the time period, I'd wager she was originally from the Netherlands or Portugal, the only western nations Japan traded with back then. I believe SC takes place before the Sakoku era, so IDK) she got orphaned somehow, and Japanese swordsman took her in as his own. He's the one that named her Setsuka "snow flower".

I got pissed on the release of SC 5, they axed most of my mains ( Taki, Seong-Mina, and Talim). So, now the only mains I have left are Tira and Mitsurugi. Good thing I'm kickass with Tira.

Oh thanks for the info

And well, the roster just seems to get smaller and smaller since SC4. And God that horribly, horribly, horribly story mode... seriously, what happened to individual character storylines with alternate endings?

...θα έπρεπε να τους τιμωρήσεις για αυτή την προσβολή! "Στο Βελιγράδι αδέρφια μου", σημαίες, τρομπέτες και δεν σημαζεύεται.

I get that you have never played a Paradox Interactive game huh?

I actually liked the SC 5 story mode, I found the plot engaging (I'm probably bias though since my dear Tira was a main antagonist, I love seeing her do her thing ). But they wiped almost all the characters and replaced them with stupid cheesy legacy characters (I especially hate Xiba), and why are there so many fucking randomized characters?

[Zweite Alaje]

Ok, a counter example, a bunch of Germans get into a war with Slavs and start killing each other. Is it racist becuase you play as the Slavs who kill Germans? And lol, your problem isnt that people kill people but because a black guy doesnt die on the opposite side while we are at it?

My problem is that games that portray everyone as being one race or another are just being lazy with character model design and can't be arsed to include a few variations. Not everyone in Greece is white.

I always found it hilarious how on SC Sophitia and Cassandra are so damned pasty. How the hell are they that pale..in Greece?

[Zweite Alaje]

Most people don't by the games for the fanservice. They buy for, you know, the game play. Most of these games people have been playing since their youth. It's not even that big of a deal.

[Zweite Alaje]

Most people don't by the games for the fanservice. They buy for, you know, the game play. Most of these games people have been playing since their youth. It's not even that big of a deal.

I'm not a woman, and I'm not sure if I can consider myself a feminist...but it can be rather important. If you're a girl-gamer, it would get annoying at best and nightmarish at worst if the characters that can only be considered your reflection to identify have no mundane purpose or meaning other than being sex appeal.

Ok, people getting butthurt over character design? If they're so annoyed they should go make their own game where all the characters are dressed like Islamists.

I personally wouldn't care as long as the gameplay is on point.

[Zweite Alaje]

Ok, people getting butthurt over character design? If they're so annoyed they should go make their own game where all the characters are dressed like Islamists.

I personally wouldn't care as long as the gameplay is on point.

As customers they should be entitled to some form of appeasement. That is, if game companies don't want to lose sales in a demographic group.

And you exaggerate, odds are female gamers probably wouldn't want a character with a niqab or a burqa...they'd be satisfied with, well, just normal attire depending on the games' setting. And if this issue gets bigger over time, or if society becomes more sensitive on the matter, sooner or later it'll be bound to happen.

I don't see the problem with it. They are games their supposed to be fun, and not all of them are going after realism.

[Zweite Alaje]

...or you could just make them look like PEOPLE, with the normal variation in body types that occurs in actual human beings. It's crazy, but it just might work.

And it's do-able. See Saints Row 3.

You got to choose the size of your boobage.

You can do that on the create mode of SC 5 too. It only makes sense that if you can adjust everything else you should be able to adjust that aspect as well.

[Zweite Alaje]

That's your opinion, but it's still victim-blaming by any definition:
How do you not see where this takes the blame away from the people directly causing the problem with their decisions and shifts it to people who have no power over the situation and aren't really relevant?

I mean, did you really think through the argument? Women are supposed to hide their gender to appease trolls? No, that's sexist, victim-blaming garbage. Trolls are responsible for trolling, and no one else.

It's literal, objective victim blaming. Literally the victims of trolling are blamed for the behavior. You can like victim-blaming, and thus find it appropriate, sure. And I'm totally ready to believe that.

Cool your horses, Jesus Christ. I said that gurrrrllllll gamerzzzzzz do not serve the gaming community well and do a really great job of serving as (and forcing other women to serve as) lightning rods for trolls.

It doesn't help that they act like retards when they get trolled. It pretty hard to be trolled if you don't react to it.

[Zweite Alaje]

It doesn't help that they act like retards when they get trolled. It pretty hard to be trolled if you don't react to it.

I've seen girls cry on video games for almost nothing. I'm sitting here, playing Team Fortress 2 or CS, and suddenly a girl is wailing on the mic because somebody called her something. That's completely anecdotal, by the way, just some weirdness I've seen.

When I play games online I'm normally the one doing the trolling, so trolling me doesn't work well. Good think I don't run into alot of crying girls on CoD. The vulgarly little boys are the funnest to pick on.

[Zweite Alaje]

When I play games online I'm normally the one doing the trolling, so trolling me doesn't work well. Good think I don't run into alot of crying girls on CoD. The vulgarly little boys are the funnest to pick on.

FUCKING BODYSHOT ASSHOLE I'LL FUCK YOU UP FUCKING NOOBSHIT MY MOM'S OUT SO I CAN SAY WHAT I FUCKSHIT CUNTING WANT FUCKCUNTSHIT

Yup. I love'em.

[Zweite Alaje]

Yup. I love'em.

I like to play Sniper on TF2 when we already have too many just to make people angry. I've played matches on 2Fort with a literal wall of snipers on the balcony.

Camping wall of snipers? Oh shit, that would be hilarious to see!!!

I used to play Combat Arms, my playing style pissed off alot of people. Liked to hide and ambush other players when they passed me. Oh boy, they didn't like that. I also liked to spam nerve gas, incendiary, and flash grenades.

[Zweite Alaje]

People seriously think to much into games, play the fucking games and have fun. Sheesh. All this, "OH MAH GERD TEH PAYRIARKY!1!!11" is quite annoying.

[Zweite Alaje]

People seriously think to much into games, play the fucking games and have fun. Sheesh. All this, "OH MAH GERD TEH PAYRIARKY!1!!11" is quite annoying.

Yeah, fuck everyone who doesn't set their brain on autopilot constantly.

Videogames...this is serious business goiz.

[Zweite Alaje]

Yay. Let's just dismiss all of the issues that don't interest us. That'll solve everything.

Clearly, the blacks would have achieved civil rights a lot faster if they had simply shut up and dealt with it.

I don't see women being forced to dress like stripper.

[Zweite Alaje]

Videogames...this is serious business goiz.

Are we going to pretend like media does not influence society?

Because that would be really silly.

I didn't say it couldn't or doesn't. What I am saying is that, as usual, a certain group of people with a certain ideology, are blowing everything out of proportion. If it was that serious, how about we ban murder and all crime from games too, that'd have an effect too if seeing a character with an exposing design is so serious and sexist.

[Zweite Alaje]

I don't see women being forced to dress like stripper.

You, dress like a stripper.

Shush...you'll expose my secret.

I don't see women being forced to dress like stripper.

Notice how that's more acceptable than portraying Sambo in a video game.

Sambo?

[Zweite Alaje]

I didn't say it couldn't or doesn't. What I am saying is that, as usual, a certain group of people with a certain ideology, are blowing everything out of proportion. If it was that serious, how about we ban murder and all crime from games too, that'd have an effect too if seeing a character with an exposing design is so serious and sexist.

What we're complaining about is not the appearances and clothes of female characters in video games. Perhaps you should read the thread.

I'll do that, I'll admit I came into this rather late.

Shush...you'll expose my secret.

That's not all he's exposing.

Shush...you'll expose my secret.


Sambo?

I also had to do a Google search

Uh...ok.

[Zweite Alaje]

Are we going to pretend like media does not influence society?

Because that would be really silly.

Silly would be expecting Alaje to take women seriously in any way shape or form.

Uh, right. FYI, I play almost exclusively with females characters in games I play. From my experience their characterizations are much more interesting than thàt of male ones. If anything the male characters need work, the old macho routine is cheesy.

I didn't say it couldn't or doesn't. What I am saying is that, as usual, a certain group of people with a certain ideology, are blowing everything out of proportion. If it was that serious, how about we ban murder and all crime from games too, that'd have an effect too if seeing a character with an exposing design is so serious and sexist.

Even in Grand Theft Auto the police will still chase you if you commit a murder. If you commit enough crimes they start flinging trucks and tanks at you. There's still that reminder that what is happening on the screen is socially unacceptable, that it's not something you should actually try to do. And it's not delivered in some ham-fisted way like a pre-game PSA. The message just naturally weaves into the rest of the setting.

A possible equivalent for a female character who is scantily clad only to boost sales (rather than for some in-context reason) would be to have someone in-game question it so as to highlight its strangeness and pointlessness. For example, the opposing character in a fighting game might cry out "What on Earth are you wearing?!" or "Where are your clothes?!" That would actually be a hilarious way to bring it forth that this sort of costuming and character design is outside the norm, and it wouldn't be particularly intrusive, either.

How about games like Mortal Kombat or Twisted Metal? Cops don't come to stop you in those (well accept for Twisted Metal 1).

That would be hilarious to me actually. But I'm not sure alot of the fan base would like it, I think I'd ruin their fantasies.

[Zweite Alaje]

......the people defending sexist video games are totally not sexist, you guys! See? Nothing sexist here! Move right along!

We're discussing whether or no rthe content in certain games is inherintly sexist. Whether or not people who defend the topic are, is a different matter. You can consume 'sexist' entertainment and still not be an asshat to/objectify/discriminate against women.

Thank you!!! Goddamn!!! People get too worked up over videogames, those are the people that get trolled in online matches cuz vidyagamz r so cereal goiz.

[Zweite Alaje]

Uh, right. FYI, I play almost exclusively with females characters in games I play.

This is your fucking argument?

I like how that's the only part of that post you responded to. I'm saying that as someone that plays as pretty much only females in games, I pay attention to their characterizations. I'm not saying that I don't think some of the design choices aren't weird or unrealistic, I just don't think it is a serious issue or an issue at all in fact. They are games they aren't meant to be a carbon copy of RL.

[Zweite Alaje]

I like how that's the only part of that post you responded to. I'm saying that as someone that plays as pretty much only females in games, I pay attention to their characterizations. I'm not saying that I don't think some of the design choices aren't weird or unrealistic, I just don't think it is a serious issue or an issue at all in fact. They are games they aren't meant to be a carbon copy of RL.

"As a male who plays female characters I feel I am in an authoritative position to comment on whether or not a game is sexist."

Yeah....thats not really any better,

Ok and "I'm a wimmiz" or "I'm a liberul" makes you people authorities on what is sexist, amirite? Also, I'm not a male.