Sexism in video games.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

Τα εχω σβησει τα ΤW. Θα επεζα EU3 αρα σπασαν το PU οι Σερβοι και νευριασα

...θα έπρεπε να τους τιμωρήσεις για αυτή την προσβολή! "Στο Βελιγράδι αδέρφια μου", σημαίες, τρομπέτες και δεν σημαζεύεται.

Seriously guys, this is an English only board. Please stop.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

The sexism is there, but it's getting better. I wish I had something more positive than that, but that's all I can honestly say.

Sexism needs to exist so that gender roles dont dissapear

Conglaturations, that is literally the stupidest thing I have ever read.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

Conglaturations, that is literally the stupidest thing I have ever read.

More stupid than intentionally misspelling "Conglaturations"?

It's a video game reference, right on topic.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

It's a video game reference, right on topic.

That victory screen still gives me nightmares.

It's just waiting to creep out and use awful spelling and grammar on you when you least expect it.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

Anyone else noticing the ad here that says "male gamers only"? With a picture of a sexually objectified woman of course.

Anyway, me, I'm not much of a gamer. Doesn't interest me. But you'd have to be blind not to notice that video games tend toward the sexist side. I've also frequently heard tell that gamer culture is highly misogynistic, from more than a couple of women gamers.

So. Would anyone like to share their opinions or thoughts on this?

Many gamers are males. Young males. You deal with them in an open forum (like PvP servers) and you get 13 year olds who think their sword or gun is an extension of their..... well.

Games themselves? Not so sure. Esp. Bioware games, whether you're a female or male has no bearing on how good or bad you are.

Yes, but many more are women.

Forty-five percent of all players are women. Today, adult women represent a greater portion of the game-playing population (31 percent) than boys age 17 or younger (19 percent).

[source]

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

So is this one of those threads where we once again reveal that the average NSG poster has the cultural awareness and broader social understanding of a six year old child who grew up under a fucking rock?

Yes, yes I believe it is.

Fucking pathetic.

Pretty much.
"Look at this exception! That means everything's better!"
"Hey guys it's just fantasy we can have fun by having women in three moles of cloth who are absolutely useless what's the big deal >:("

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

I think that's different. I think that's not what feminists want. Certainly not what I want for a plot oriented game (Skyrim is good, but it's not exactly a beacon of gender equality because of it's lack of story). Because for one, the main character, you, is devoid of any personality whatsoever.

I could only remember a few games that forces you to be on the opposite role and I'm not even sure if it's good enough. Beyond Good & Evil is one. Dreamfall. Those are obscure games at that.

*I recognize that this one, unlike the rest, can't just be slotted in to any character, but there are absolutely game concepts in which the PC could be in a wheelchair or missing a limb or something and it would in no way harm and quite possibly enhance the game.

I now want a survival horror game where the protagonist is in a wheelchair.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

I now want a survival horror game where the protagonist is in a wheelchair.

That would be awesome.

Hnng, imagine an escape sequence in a narrow, long passage way that you have to navigate.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

Pretty much.
"Look at this exception! That means everything's better!"
"Hey guys it's just fantasy we can have fun by having women in three moles of cloth who are absolutely useless what's the big deal >:("

You will recall that pretty much I said those were the games I bought.

Hmmmmmm

Voting with one's cash. Should appeal to all the free market peeps.

The free market reflects the society it's from. Voting with your cash doesn't work unless a lot of people do the same.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

It's pandering to their primary market: horny, adolescent males. When your demographic studies indicate that lustful teen boys comprise the majority of your market, designing a product catered to their demands and then incorporating exclusivity ("this is full of babes for your penis, which only men have") into your marketing ploy is probably quite effective. Sexualisation is objectification, and sexualisation is a tool that those companies are using. While those advertisements are sexist in the sense that they discriminate against women, I'm not convinced that it's really problematic.

It's like having a bathroom of only urinals, and then putting up a "men only" sign. Your bathroom is full of men anyway, because you made it for men. You're just making that intent glaringly clear.

That's not true, though.

The average gamer is 30 years old and has been playing for 13 years. Sixty-eight percent of gamers are 18 or older.
Forty-five percent of all players are women. Today, adult women represent a greater portion of the game-playing population (31 percent) than boys age 17 or younger (19 percent).

[source]

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

This is actually not true.

I can't think of any MMO that completely denies female characters actual armor if they want to wear it. I mean maybe if you're dead set on playing a clothie and only wearing clothie stuff?

The preponderance of gear is definitely in favor of stripperiffic, though.

One of the reasons I gave up on WoW was that I was sick to death of having to choose between "gear with the best stats" and "gear that does not display on my character as a bikini top and assless chaps, despite displaying on male characters as actual armor." :(

Something I really like that I've been seeing in more games is the option for a cosmetic armor slot. Basically, you can wear whatever ultimate armor you want, but you can override it and appear as something else (while keeping the stats).

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

That's not true, though.

[source]

But the point is that horny adolescent males are widespread and, more importantly, are very simple to market to, since they have very simple expectations.

But I am a horny male adolescent and my expectations are anything but that.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

Yes.

This has been another edition of Simple Answers to Stupid Questions.

(Seriously, you are on page 35 of a thread about sexism in video games, full of quite a lot of posts from people saying it matters and giving reasons why it matters, and your contribution to the thread is "does it matter?" Good grief.)

Titles of things should be underlined.

CHECKMATE FEMINISTS!

Actually, I know it's 30 pages late, but my English professor who's involved with the MLA stated that it's no longer correct to use underlines for titles, they're only italicized.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

Male characters are not treated the same.

Male character rarely wear revealing clothing.

They are not sexualized.

They are characters to be played, not characters to be gawked at.

Just like housewife characters(none exist, BTW) are the ideal female architype.

Hahahaha holy shit did you post that seriously?

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

"....what on earth does that have to do with anything? In response to "You can consume 'sexist' entertainment and still not be an asshat to/objectify/discriminate against women," I discussed whether you can consume sexist entertainment and not be sexist. I was unaware that I was meant to confine myself exclusively to using examples from the specific sub-genre of sexist entertainment you preferred for no reason whatsoever."

I meant in posts previously; I should've articulated better. You're right on that account.


"Again, the post you are responding to is about "sexist entertainment." Not "specific origin points and sub-genres of sexist entertainment."

Here, I was talking about the fact that different cultures have different cultural norms in regards to women. But I digress....


"...charming. Can you maybe try actual arguments instead of inane playground slurs?"

See above.

Also, I'll say what ever I please. Freedom of speech. If I want to drive you into the ground, and make you feal like shit, I'm within power to do so,

You and most of the anti-sexism crew seem intent on grouping all games under the label sexist, despite each of them having their own nuances.

"Nope! Just the sexist games. I am perfectly happy to address the specific nuances of games in a thread devoted to the specific nuances of games. THIS thread is about sexism in video games (it's right there in the title!), so, shockingly, the aspect of games I've been addressing is the sexism in them. Crazy, I know."

Got me there.


"Thank you! I am perfectly happy to generalize that defending sexism is sexist! Hell, I'll throw in some bonuses for you:

Defending racism is racist!
Defending homophobia is homophobic!
Defending transphobia is transphobic!"

Look at all these wacky generalizations"

Def Homophobe/Transphobe/Racist: He's exercising his right to free speech. He made an argument based on his previous expereinces and emotions, doesn't mean you can't hit him.

That's not an argument. "Free speech guys!!!" does not shut down an argument. Are they actually trying to censor anybody? Or are they just voicing opinions you don't like? The only time I ever hear the "Free speech I'll say what I want" argument used is in the case of the latter. Plus, you don't have free speech on this website. You can't say whatever you want.

It's free speech, so I can post whatever I like here, right?

Ahahahaha! Hahaha! Free speech! No, it's not. I run this web site, see, so you have to play by my rules. It's like my own Father Knows Best state.
[source]

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

Not really. When's the last time you saw someone try to use Curaga on a person that's been shot?

"Hurr, GTA didn't make me rob cars, so game don't do anything!"
TEENAGE LIBERTARIAN STRIKEFORCE ARE GO!

Please, I'm a 19 year old Libertarian and I know how to make better arguments than that.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

We've argued that women should not be forced into only being valued for sex appeal or as a trophy. That's it. No one here has said "DESTROY ALL VIDEO GAMES EVER!"

But of course, I guess attacking a completely imagined position would be easier for you.

Most gamers don't play games or pick certain characters on their looks, their gameplay is usually more important. Besides, a game isn't that influential on people's outlook. I don't remember ever hearing anyone change their mind on something because of a game character that happens to be dressed in a revealing fashion. Hell, I'm a fucking prude by ideology and I'm not offended by this stuff. If I'm not imploding from seeing a bit of fanservice why the hell are a bunch of feminist liberals?

Because like all the women are being dressed up that way. I could care less about the skimpy outfits. It becomes a problem when virtually every game has them in great abundance. It's sabotaging agency and promotes the idea that women are sex objects, not sexual beings.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

I don't think it is that Sexist really...I mean there are worse games out there that do it but Mario or Zelda?

Yeah Princess Peach is really the typical damsel in distress but I think they use it for comedy reason more then anything negative.

Also Princess Zelda is not a damsel because she is a strong and powerful woman in her own ways that make her a better character then link.

I recall there being a Mario game where Peach saves Mario. Never played it due to the fact that my DS had died.

Yeah, and she attacks by crying on things.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

Nothing you linked proves anything, that not really influencing soceity's perceptions of things more like some obsessed fans bringing a fictional object into ecosyence. It'sore a fad instead of a long lasting civilization changing effect.

Do you think that 1984, the book and movie and the entire mythos surrounding it, has contributed to the changes in peoples voting behaviours at all?

Actually, yeah, just consider how prevalent the terminology used in it has become without people even realizing where it's from. People toss around big brother and the like all the time.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

The only real point of contention is that the damsel is generally a woman, and the knight in shining armour is generally a man: thus furthering gender stereotypes. I don't see how the plot device as a whole is sexist.

If one portrays women as being knights-in-shining-armor instead of the damsel in distress is that sexist as well?

We're not talking about one singular portrayal of women being rescued in video games and then saying that all video games are sexist. What is being said is that it's incredibly prevalent across literally hundreds of video games where women are damsels in distress needing to be rescued by men. There's a huge difference.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

Such equality is pretty impossible while maintaining a country that's still a pleasure to live in. Look how "well" it went in Sweden, that place looks awful now.

How does Sweden look "awful" now, and what did Sweden do that makes it such an "awful" place?

:[ They don't let me assault my kids and some private schools there are using gender neutral language that doesn't conform with my rigid authoritarian beliefs.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

How does Sweden look "awful" now, and what did Sweden do that makes it such an "awful" place?



You can internalize ideas and norms without even being consciously aware you're doing so.



It's not about what one's mother and sister look like compared to the representations of women in video games. It's about what those representations say about one's mother and sister, such as what their role in society ought to be, how they ought to look, and so on.

Not even.

10/10 debating you really showed them I changed my mind that was so profound and well argued.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

Anyone else noticing the ad here that says "male gamers only"? With a picture of a sexually objectified woman of course.

Anyway, me, I'm not much of a gamer. Doesn't interest me. But you'd have to be blind not to notice that video games tend toward the sexist side. I've also frequently heard tell that gamer culture is highly misogynistic, from more than a couple of women gamers.

So. Would anyone like to share their opinions or thoughts on this?

*Sees the question* Yes sadly, Max wants us to pay to get the stupid ads removed.

And they do that to capitalize off of men's sexual desires. Wartune as wikipedia states is about strategic military conquest. I hate they do that making us guys look worse in the eyes of Radical Feminists.

It's just a couple bucks. I skipped food for a couple days to pay for it.

[United Furry Alliance]

Oh, hell yes. But they aren't the topic of this thread.

Also, boy bands don't represent the music industry as a whole. Sexism in video games is a major reason why video games are not taken seriously as an art medium.

And some games with women with big tits and big armor dont represent the entire game industry

Good game skyrim. Gives women actual amour and no overly large boobs unless you do it yourself.

[Vareiln]

Unfortunately, both games and "gamer" culture are incredibly sexist(along with other nasty things).
Thankfully, this is slowly changing. I just want it to change faster.