Sexism in video games.

[The Truth and Light]

Do people really try to identify with fictional characters in media? I hear it all the time, so I guess they do. I must be strange.

I do that all the time.

I think it's important to consider that fictional characters become our role models if we really enjoy the media they're featured in. It's a subconscious reflection thing.

[The USOT]

I'm kinda suprised this is a topic. Sexism exists in media. A thread asking us to discuss sexism within the games industry is like asking us to discuss the fact that clown fish have fins.

Now there are certainly unique and interesting examples of gender and sex identity that are only able to be explored within game studies, but sexism in its content and audience is no different than any other medium. Albeit I suppose you get to talk to bigots directly whilst gaming.

[Totallynotbottle]

You just admitted they were saving each other.

...is this another one of those things where someone decides that everyone on the "feminist" side of a thread is secretly the same person?

what's all this about then?

[Tubbsalot]

Some games have their stuff centered around having females being hawt, others have them as practical.

Oh, yes. All of those games where where women dress practically, in a way that doesn't explicitly emphasise their [secondary sexual characteristics]. Like in, er... um... Mirror's Edge? And... ... ...Portal?

Is that all of them? I think that's all of them. Two games in which you largely can't see the girl, so there'd be no point in making them sexy hot.

[Tubbsalot]

http://i.imgur.com/OaJQy.jpg I said another game in the post?

(Image)

Great, we're up to three games already. Shall I list the ones where women are shown exclusively as sluts? Should I include the ones where only all notable women are shown as sluts?

No, they're fucking creepy. Ew.

that's the point

Oh, well, that's alright then. Nothing creepy or sexual about that.

[Tyriece]

You know, women are not the only one's being stereotyped in video games. Many games (i should say most) have a strong heroic man fighting bad guys and blindly following orders to save *insert something here*. If anything i think men get it worse in the video game world.

[Tyriece]

You know, women are not the only one's being stereotyped in video games. Many games (i should say most) have a strong heroic man fighting bad guys and blindly following orders to save *insert something here*. If anything i think men get it worse in the video game world.

No, because men being strong and heroic and fighting the bad guys and kicking ass is a male power fantasy that's being fulfilled by developers. When men are the one being portrayed as both a) useless and b) only valuable for their desirability to be saved from distress by women out of their mancaves of terrible foreboding or w/e then men will be 'just as worse off'.

So all men have this power hungry fantasy to be strong and stupid ? Or are you saying men like to be stereotyped? Either way i am sure you know none of those are true.

[Tyriece]

You know, women are not the only one's being stereotyped in video games. Many games (i should say most) have a strong heroic man fighting bad guys and blindly following orders to save *insert something here*. If anything i think men get it worse in the video game world.

I know I feel oppressed and dehumanised every day because the straight, white men in video games fill the roles of the heroes, the villains, the sidekicks, the wise old mentors, the scheming viziers, <insert exhaustive list of all possible protagonist and antagonist roles>.

were did you get white or straight? I am saying men are stereotyped as well.

[Tyriece]

Please, name some modern games in which the woman are always needing saving.

Fuck, that's just been done. But please, if this shocks you, don't limit yourself to games: movies do the same shit.

If you are going to argue that women get stereotyped in all these (which they do) you should mention or know that men get a equal share of it as well.

[Tyriece]

If you are going to argue that women get stereotyped in all these (which they do) you should mention or know that men get a equal share of it as well.

Yes, they get stereotyped as virtuous heroes and wonderful saviors of the otherwise defenseless women. Do you see why women are understandably more upset?

Not really no. It is like calling all Asians good at math. You dont see how they could get offended by that either?

[Tyriece]

were did you get white or straight?

The 2013 Catalogue of People Who Aren't Actually Suffering The Worst Discrimination In Society.

I am saying men are stereotyped as well.

Men aren't being stereotyped, unless you're trying to suggest on a meta level that video games are stereotyping the players by suggesting that they all want to be the muscle-bound hero who saves the girl and what not.

...Are you kidding me. Ya cus you know how ever male wants to be the big stupid hero that blindly goes and kills bad guys to get his D wet. You know how ever male wants to be looked at like that.

[Tyriece]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Princess_Peach
Good night all

[Uiiop]

Depends on the game...i'm sure the issue is going to get noted and the sexist will get ticked at what ensues. But that all part of gaming growing and getting it's art and/or complexity on.
But first..people really have to calm down when this topic comes up...the last time someone tried to analyse it people got hilariously pissed and assholish.

[Uiiop]

Actually, its because we have gone into a positive feedback loop.

Sexism(Sexy ladies in video games) causes more men to start playing video games. The Industry responds to the increased male gaming sector by adding for sexism.

How is it sexism? IT IS MARKETING. The game is supposed to be bought by teenage boys, and what is better for advetisment to teenage boys than TITS? Seriously, are you guys trying to find things to complain about?

Because gamer girls are getting a notice part of the gaming demographic and they (Read: ALL feminists) are upset that most females characters are nothing but boobs. I'm sure marketing doesn't something make not sexist.
http://www.theesa.com/facts/gameplayer.asp Also the usual gamer 30...sooo either something different is going on or 30 yrs and/or Gaming developers are stupider than we give them credit. IN fact the ironic thing is women game are more present than what you thought was the target audience.

[Uiiop]

I don't always approve of how some female characters in games are portrayed but its either
A) RPGs like skyrim where the women are just as strong as the men but their bodies are over sexualized
B) weak useless characters
C) Retarded characters who give women a bad name

So... what about the fact that most males in Skyrim are ultra buff and full of muscles. Aint that sexism?

Yes in favor of men empowering/idealizing them and making differences for their own gender's benefit. Most of the time Women are degraded for their loss and for men's benefit. I mean if you are for realistic and not idealized characters then good for you. But the idealization of men isn't against them.

[Uiiop]

Yes in favor of men empowering/idealizing them and making differences for their own gender's benefit. Most of the time Women are degraded for their loss and for men's benefit. I mean if you are for realistic and not idealized characters then good for you. But the idealization of men isn't against them.

So hot women cant be consindered as idealization for females?

It isn't just about how hot something is or isn't. It's about whither a character is more than just looks, Appeals and stereotypes.

[Uiiop]

Yes in favor of men empowering/idealizing them and making differences for their own gender's benefit. Most of the time Women are degraded for their loss and for men's benefit. I mean if you are for realistic and not idealized characters then good for you. But the idealization of men isn't against them.

Sorry, but that makes zero sense. A stereotype is a stereotype

But some positive gender stereotypes are made by the people who are represented to make themselves look better and developed than the other one. It's still a good thing to be against them but the the characters with those stereotypes aren't harming their own gender but the other.

[Uiiop]

It isn't just about how hot something is or isn't. It's about whither a character is more than just looks, Appeals and stereotypes.

Well that is interesting, since in Skyrim, which you guys and gurls just blamed for sexism, the females are intelligent and have key roles.

Can you guys give me game explain with sexualised women (as with no personallity?)

Doesn't matter some looks are made to appeal to sexist and/or perverted players. We're focusing on different but related issues on sexism. You see i'm focusing more on character rather than looks alone. Since we're not a hive mind skyrim has mostly nothing wrong other than giving players the option to look like a sex object(If this is true of course i never noticed this before so however said it might be Bullshiting) which isn't a problem in of itself IMHO.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

Video games are pretty sexist, but the culture surrounding it is infinitely more so. Drako is a pretty good representation of the video gaming culture, constantly making asinine excuses and talking about breasts like they're so magical artifact, and disregarding female presence with comments like "The Sims don't count." It's a pretty shameful affair. The rampant sexism in video games only helps to perpetuate this culture. I honestly feel like I've heard every one of Drako's sentiments mirrored exactly at least a hundred times by different, random people.

Sometimes I hang out with groups dedicated to individual video games for a while, and it doesn't take long to see how bad it is. Be careful, you might get called the dreaded f-word there. Nope, it's not faggot, that's tossed around with utmost glee. No, if you misbehave you might get called a feminist. Shock and awe. The terror. Honestly, it really annoys me. I'd like to be able to talk about video games without all the sexist self-entitled garbage that accompanies it.

The industry itself can be pretty bad at times to. I know that my significant other got involved with making an indie game before, and pretty much her input on things was completely ignored and they barely even let her do her own job. She's damn creative, so it's a shame they passed her ideas up to go with the usual bland SWM space marine. Bleh.

The industry's not all bad though, and it's certainly getting better at least in some regards. One of the games I'm following the development of, Starbound, has an pretty diverse crew behind it. I don't know the overall condition of the industry, but as the generation that grew up on video games takes a larger part in shaping them, I can certainly hope for the better.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

This man has the right idea!

Also, to add onto his point, there is a reason why gaming is not taken seriously as an artistic medium like movies, music, theater, writing, etc are.

Hint: It's not because games are interactive.

It's the executives and decision makers. It always seems to point to the top of the pyramid when there is a problem.

Nah, in this day and age there's no excuse for it being the executives at the top. The indie scene for video games is far too large for that. People are just reluctant to break the mold. It's the whole industry, not just the few at the top.

Video games are pretty sexist, but the culture surrounding it is infinitely more so. Drako is a pretty good representation of the video gaming culture, constantly making asinine excuses and talking about breasts like they're so magical artifact, and disregarding female presence with comments like "The Sims don't count." It's a pretty shameful affair. The rampant sexism in video games only helps to perpetuate this culture. I honestly feel like I've heard every one of Drako's sentiments mirrored exactly at least a hundred times by different, random people.

Sometimes I hang out with groups dedicated to individual video games for a while, and it doesn't take long to see how bad it is. Be careful, you might get called the dreaded f-word there. Nope, it's not faggot, that's tossed around with utmost glee. No, if you misbehave you might get called a feminist. Shock and awe. The terror. Honestly, it really annoys me. I'd like to be able to talk about video games without all the sexist self-entitled garbage that accompanies it.

The industry itself can be pretty bad at times to. I know that my significant other got involved with making an indie game before, and pretty much her input on things was completely ignored and they barely even let her do her own job. She's damn creative, so it's a shame they passed her ideas up to go with the usual bland SWM space marine. Bleh.

The industry's not all bad though, and it's certainly getting better at least in some regards. One of the games I'm following the development of, Starbound, has an pretty diverse crew behind it. I don't know the overall condition of the industry, but as the generation that grew up on video games takes a larger part in shaping them, I can certainly hope for the better.

I completely agree, and am very sorry to here about the SO's troubles in the industry. It's changing, but ever-so-slowly. It has to start with the community before anything changes, but the world itself has become with sexualized.

I'm perfectly okay with a sexualized world. Honestly, if people would just stop being so uptight about sex and sexuality, it'd be a better place. Still, sexualized is different than sexism. Making 99% of the few female characters large breasted "save me" types is just absurd.

Thanks for the concern, though.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

So, if the female is competent and a good character, why are her clothes supposed to matter?

When would you ever see a male character dressed similarly, except in pornography games?

Scarlet Blade itself almost toes the line for a pornography game.

If I recall correctly, you can pay to remove all upper body clothing in that game.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

Wow! And now we're onto the racial slurs! Fantastic.

Since when is Jap a racial slur?

Since WWII.

When would you ever see a male character dressed similarly, except in pornography games?

Scarlet Blade itself almost toes the line for a pornography game.

Emm, I doubt you would see a dude wearing a brah... ever.

Clearly you haven't seen me and my S.O. messing around.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

Nah, in this day and age there's no excuse for it being the executives at the top. The indie scene for video games is far too large for that. People are just reluctant to break the mold. It's the whole industry, not just the few at the top.

Those executives hold the mold of what is successful and what is not. If it sells, then the executives demand more of it be made. The independents see that and also move towards that direction.

I don't know, most of the indie successes have been big time mold breakers. Take a lot at minecraft, for example. If you're a small time developer, would you look to what keeps the big ones in their seat of power, or what made other people in similar situations successful?

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

If I recall correctly, you can pay to remove all upper body clothing in that game.

14 pages in and no one has mentioned the Larry games? :D

It'd be like complaining about Rapelay or Custer's Revenge; we're talking about the broader video game industry and culture here.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

I don't know, most of the indie successes have been big time mold breakers. Take a lot at minecraft, for example. If you're a small time developer, would you look to what keeps the big ones in their seat of power, or what made other people in similar situations successful?

They have to be close enough to the mold otherwise it might not take off. Those big ones can survive a bust although not too many of them. If an independent is to survive, they have to make a hit every time. It will eventually draw them to the dark side of driven only by profits.

Eh, I suppose it would boil down to the studio in question. Some of them only put out one or two games. All depends.