Sexism in video games.

[Shaggai]

Ummmm... I'm going to have to go with "yes" on this one. Source: This entire thread.

Allright then, but I think that's more to decide for the companies who they advertise for, not the goverment

Besides, even if only males complained about it, would that make their complaints invalid? What if I want to play a game where the females dress realistically and are realistically proportioned?

That's up to the Dev company.

I agree that it is up to the company. However, as a potential customer, I have the right to suggest the sort of content that I would prefer in that company's games. Saying that I should stop complaining because my complaints probably won't make a difference ignores the very real possibility that the devs listen to what the fans want.

[Forster Keys]

How do you non-ironically post this on the sixty-seventh page of this thread?

I started somewhere like page 27 and are still only at page 49 hours later. Might be finished by now if I hadn't been posting in a few other threads but I doubt it.

Well you're nothing if not thorough.

[Nailed to the Perch]

......the people defending sexist video games are totally not sexist, you guys! See? Nothing sexist here! Move right along!

We're discussing whether or no rthe content in certain games is inherintly sexist. Whether or not people who defend the topic are, is a different matter. You can consume 'sexist' entertainment and still not be an asshat to/objectify/discriminate against women.

Sure. You cannot, however, defend the sexism in said entertainment without being sexist. To go back to an example that's come up repeatedly in this thread, I've absolutely played and enjoyed games in the Soul series despite them having some of the worst female character design imaginable. (Having sexist character design does not mean it's not fun to make Yoshimitsu do that pogo-stick-sword-of-death trick. Boing boing boing DEATH!) It's perfectly possible to enjoy a work while simultaneously acknowledging its flaws. What doesn't work is to say, "Flaws? What flaws? It has no flaws! How dare you suggest it has flaws! It's totally reasonable that characters who are supposed to be serious scholars and fighters do so in what appears to be physically-impossible fetishwear! Most female fighters definitely have boobs larger than their head which they do not in any way support while fighting, lest their opponent miss even a second of vital 'jiggle physics'! Lots of serious warriors consider spanking, face-humping, and making orgasm noises to be critical elements of fighting technique, and it's just pure coincidence that the characters with those sorts of stupid moves are all women! BESIDES MEN HAVE IT JUST AS BAD IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY ALWAYS AND WOMEN SHOULD ONLY ASPIRE TO BE HOUSEWIVES, ANYWAY, SO SHUT UP."

[Solidariteit]

Allright then, but I think that's more to decide for the companies who they advertise for, not the goverment



That's up to the Dev company.

I agree that it is up to the company. However, as a potential customer, I have the right to suggest the sort of content that I would prefer in that company's games. Saying that I should stop complaining because my complaints probably won't make a difference ignores the very real possibility that the devs listen to what the fans want.

If the dev listens, good, if he doesn't, good.

[Ifreann]

The fuck kind of drugs were the writers on?

Pot. No seriously. Morrowind was almost entirely written while high.

The fuck kind of drugs were the writers on?

Skooma and some tainted Cyrodilic Brandy.

These are both very plausible.

---

People seriously think to much into games, play the fucking games and have fun. Sheesh. All this, "OH MAH GERD TEH PAYRIARKY!1!!11" is quite annoying.

"Stop thinking about things, guise, your conclusions are making me uncomfortable!"

---

Well, you have to admit that the way tits bounce is quite humorous, and they're fun to play with.

Mine are not especially bouncy....

Download a jiggle physics mod.

---

(Image)

If this is supposed to be a defense of Anita "Lottamoney" Sarkeesian, it fails.

It exhibits a completely different problem: she is, in fact, using the money to impulse-buy shitloads of video games under the pretense of "research". Riiiight.

Because raising money on Kickstarter for the explicit purpose of buying, among other things, games and DLC is an "impulse-buy". Pretty shit reasoning you have there, chief.

---

If this is supposed to be a defense of Anita "Lottamoney" Sarkeesian, it fails.

It exhibits a completely different problem: she is, in fact, using the money to impulse-buy shitloads of video games under the pretense of "research". Riiiight.

You know, it's already been pointed out how transparent this nonsense is. Bouncing straight from "she probably didn't even BUY the games, that bitch" to "she probably BOUGHT the games, exactly like she said she would, that bitch" does not exactly make the anti-Sarkeesian crowd look like you guys have measured, thoughtful criticisms of Sarkeesian's work. so much as like your next comment will be, "Oh yeah, well, she probably BREATHES AIR, that bitch."

It's almost as though it doesn't matter what she says or does, she's making boys think about the games they play and the sexism in them so she must be some kind of cock-juggling thunder-cunt.

[Forsher]

It's the same place where people think Divair, who is younger than me (and therefore, younger than TSM because we're both 17 but I think I'm older than her, my birthday's later this month), is 30-something. Keronians, about a week younger than me (assuming my memory's correct), is also mistaken for being older than 17. I imagine that TSM is thought of as being older but I'm not sure. Forster Keys has been in his twenties before he got to uni and I think the same applied with Meowfoundland (who has sadly CTE'd). Ovisterra's something like 15, which continually surprises me. Nationstateslandsville comes across as older also. Astrolinium, again, older than his years.

There are 13 to 14 year olds who seem more intelligent and elequent on a lot of topics than anyone I know. Then there are people who are middle aged that I've mistaken for junior high students. Age is not really the issue.

But people in society like to considers themselves part of some sort of an elite, hearken back to an golden age that may or may not have existed. The result being that posters I admire end up subtly and openingly trashing each other. If there's anything that's making the community unhealthy it's the constant assertion that the community is unhealthy. The way I see it, if you don't like the quality of the conversation, create a new one and speak with your mates there.

I doubt you're surprised to find I agree.

I mean, in some ways it'd be a shame if certain posters left but it's probably better for everyone if that was to happen.

I started somewhere like page 27 and are still only at page 49 hours later. Might be finished by now if I hadn't been posting in a few other threads but I doubt it.

Well you're nothing if not thorough.

When I got up at the rather impressively late time of 6pm (I was afraid if I didn't get up then I might miss my programmes at 8:30pm) I looked at this thread and thought, "Well, it was rather interesting, I should read all of it". And, there are so many posts that I just didn't reply to because I thought my first few addressed them perfectly well and some of them are pretty asinine to boot (see, I can say posts are extremely foolish or stupid too!).

[Choronzon]

she must be some kind of cock-juggling thunder-cunt.

Did...did you just quote the third Blade movie?

[Zweite Alaje]

Uh, right. FYI, I play almost exclusively with females characters in games I play.

This is your fucking argument?

I like how that's the only part of that post you responded to. I'm saying that as someone that plays as pretty much only females in games, I pay attention to their characterizations. I'm not saying that I don't think some of the design choices aren't weird or unrealistic, I just don't think it is a serious issue or an issue at all in fact. They are games they aren't meant to be a carbon copy of RL.

[Choronzon]

This is your fucking argument?

I like how that's the only part of that post you responded to. I'm saying that as someone that plays as pretty much only females in games, I pay attention to their characterizations. I'm not saying that I don't think some of the design choices aren't weird or unrealistic, I just don't think it is a serious issue or an issue at all in fact. They are games they aren't meant to be a carbon copy of RL.

"As a male who plays female characters I feel I am in an authoritative position to comment on whether or not a game is sexist."

Yeah....thats not really any better,

[Zweite Alaje]

I like how that's the only part of that post you responded to. I'm saying that as someone that plays as pretty much only females in games, I pay attention to their characterizations. I'm not saying that I don't think some of the design choices aren't weird or unrealistic, I just don't think it is a serious issue or an issue at all in fact. They are games they aren't meant to be a carbon copy of RL.

"As a male who plays female characters I feel I am in an authoritative position to comment on whether or not a game is sexist."

Yeah....thats not really any better,

Ok and "I'm a wimmiz" or "I'm a liberul" makes you people authorities on what is sexist, amirite? Also, I'm not a male.

[Ifreann]

she must be some kind of cock-juggling thunder-cunt.

Did...did you just quote the third Blade movie?

Yes. Yes I did.

[Sommorragh]

We're discussing whether or no rthe content in certain games is inherintly sexist. Whether or not people who defend the topic are, is a different matter. You can consume 'sexist' entertainment and still not be an asshat to/objectify/discriminate against women.

Sure. You cannot, however, defend the sexism in said entertainment without being sexist. To go back to an example that's come up repeatedly in this thread, I've absolutely played and enjoyed games in the Soul series despite them having some of the worst female character design imaginable. (Having sexist character design does not mean it's not fun to make Yoshimitsu do that pogo-stick-sword-of-death trick. Boing boing boing DEATH!) It's perfectly possible to enjoy a work while simultaneously acknowledging its flaws. What doesn't work is to say, "Flaws? What flaws? It has no flaws! How dare you suggest it has flaws! It's totally reasonable that characters who are supposed to be serious scholars and fighters do so in what appears to be physically-impossible fetishwear! Most female fighters definitely have boobs larger than their head which they do not in any way support while fighting, lest their opponent miss even a second of vital 'jiggle physics'! Lots of serious warriors consider spanking, face-humping, and making orgasm noises to be critical elements of fighting technique, and it's just pure coincidence that the characters with those sorts of stupid moves are all women! BESIDES MEN HAVE IT JUST AS BAD IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY ALWAYS AND WOMEN SHOULD ONLY ASPIRE TO BE HOUSEWIVES, ANYWAY, SO SHUT UP."

I never argued about fighting games. If you remember, I was talking about RPGS. You also seem to make no distinction between games made in the western and eastern spheres. That's not even getting into different cultures. Hyperbole make you look pants-on-head retarded. You and most of the anti-sexism crew seem intent on grouping all games under the label sexist, despite each of them having their own nuances.

Also that claim about defending sexism? Yeah, way to generalize.

[Forster Keys]

There are 13 to 14 year olds who seem more intelligent and elequent on a lot of topics than anyone I know. Then there are people who are middle aged that I've mistaken for junior high students. Age is not really the issue.

But people in society like to considers themselves part of some sort of an elite, hearken back to an golden age that may or may not have existed. The result being that posters I admire end up subtly and openingly trashing each other. If there's anything that's making the community unhealthy it's the constant assertion that the community is unhealthy. The way I see it, if you don't like the quality of the conversation, create a new one and speak with your mates there.

I doubt you're surprised to find I agree.

I mean, in some ways it'd be a shame if certain posters left but it's probably better for everyone if that was to happen.

Well you're nothing if not thorough.

When I got up at the rather impressively late time of 6pm (I was afraid if I didn't get up then I might miss my programmes at 8:30pm) I looked at this thread and thought, "Well, it was rather interesting, I should read all of it". And, there are so many posts that I just didn't reply to because I thought my first few addressed them perfectly well and some of them are pretty asinine to boot (see, I can say posts are extremely foolish or stupid too!).

I'm just seeing a fuckload of conceited bile, but I've only been looking at the most recent couple of pages.

[Austro-German Prussia]

Anyone else noticing the ad here that says "male gamers only"? With a picture of a sexually objectified woman of course.

The video game ads are the #1 reason I use adblock on this website.

So. Would anyone like to share their opinions or thoughts on this?

There's definitely a lot of sexism in video games.

Anita Sarkeesian has been doing a youtube series on the roles women play in video games, if you're interested.

That woman is an idiot.

[Tetryx]

I agree that it is up to the company. However, as a potential customer, I have the right to suggest the sort of content that I would prefer in that company's games. Saying that I should stop complaining because my complaints probably won't make a difference ignores the very real possibility that the devs listen to what the fans want.

If the dev listens, good, if he doesn't, good.

Who said it was a boy!? What kind of person taught you to speak about people that way!?

^ ...What someone who was...special would say, I'm extra speshial but they left our the crazy sort of.

Anyways, I agree...I just wish people felt like the devs listened, ^-^

[Ifreann]

The video game ads are the #1 reason I use adblock on this website.


There's definitely a lot of sexism in video games.

Anita Sarkeesian has been doing a youtube series on the roles women play in video games, if you're interested.

That woman is an idiot.

"That woman makes me think about the sexism in media I consume and that's upsetting, so I'm going to get angry at her" -- How everyone else reads this.

[Orham]

Should Link those you know.

More useful that way.

Some of those may be slightly out of context (I don't think so because I remember some -- but they could be!).

Here's my part:

Am I saying Nina Williams is a sexist character in every way? No, she isn't all bad. And it's not even necessarily sexist or objectifying to have a character wear revealing outfits. It's just that there comes a point where it becomes apparent that a character's outfits were designed simply to cater to the target audience rather than to provide some sort of meaningful characterization. Whether Nina's outfits cross that line or not is hard to say considering her personality. It's much easier to point to Ivy from the Soul series as an example of crossing that line.

I even provided a description of the line between a character wearing exposing clothing for some meaningful purpose and objectification, and provided an example of a clear and apparent case of objectification to boot. To argue that I was, in any way, denying sexism in that post is plainly ridiculous.

And in the post immediately preceding this one I made the argument that Nina Williams (Tekken) wore outfits which could be considered objectifying. I absolutely do not belong in that list.

[Shaggai]

The video game ads are the #1 reason I use adblock on this website.


There's definitely a lot of sexism in video games.

Anita Sarkeesian has been doing a youtube series on the roles women play in video games, if you're interested.

That woman is an idiot.

Why do you think that?

[Nailed to the Perch]

Sure. You cannot, however, defend the sexism in said entertainment without being sexist. To go back to an example that's come up repeatedly in this thread, I've absolutely played and enjoyed games in the Soul series despite them having some of the worst female character design imaginable. (Having sexist character design does not mean it's not fun to make Yoshimitsu do that pogo-stick-sword-of-death trick. Boing boing boing DEATH!) It's perfectly possible to enjoy a work while simultaneously acknowledging its flaws. What doesn't work is to say, "Flaws? What flaws? It has no flaws! How dare you suggest it has flaws! It's totally reasonable that characters who are supposed to be serious scholars and fighters do so in what appears to be physically-impossible fetishwear! Most female fighters definitely have boobs larger than their head which they do not in any way support while fighting, lest their opponent miss even a second of vital 'jiggle physics'! Lots of serious warriors consider spanking, face-humping, and making orgasm noises to be critical elements of fighting technique, and it's just pure coincidence that the characters with those sorts of stupid moves are all women! BESIDES MEN HAVE IT JUST AS BAD IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY ALWAYS AND WOMEN SHOULD ONLY ASPIRE TO BE HOUSEWIVES, ANYWAY, SO SHUT UP."

I never argued about fighting games. If you remember, I was talking about RPGS.

....what on earth does that have to do with anything? In response to "You can consume 'sexist' entertainment and still not be an asshat to/objectify/discriminate against women," I discussed whether you can consume sexist entertainment and not be sexist. I was unaware that I was meant to confine myself exclusively to using examples from the specific sub-genre of sexist entertainment you preferred for no reason whatsoever.

You also seem to make no distinction between games made in the western and eastern spheres.

Again, the post you are responding to is about "sexist entertainment." Not "specific origin points and sub-genres of sexist entertainment."

That's not even getting into different cultures. Hyperbole make you look pants-on-head retarded.

...charming. Can you maybe try actual arguments instead of inane playground slurs?

You and most of the anti-sexism crew seem intent on grouping all games under the label sexist, despite each of them having their own nuances.

Nope! Just the sexist games. I am perfectly happy to address the specific nuances of games in a thread devoted to the specific nuances of games. THIS thread is about sexism in video games (it's right there in the title!), so, shockingly, the aspect of games I've been addressing is the sexism in them. Crazy, I know.

Also that claim about defending sexism? Yeah, way to generalize.

Thank you! I am perfectly happy to generalize that defending sexism is sexist! Hell, I'll throw in some bonuses for you:

Defending racism is racist!
Defending homophobia is homophobic!
Defending transphobia is transphobic!

Look at all these wacky generalizations!

[Grand Britannia]

That woman is an idiot.

Why do you think that?

Maybe because the amount of useless female characters is overshadowed by the useful ones.

At least I struggle to find them.

[Zweite Alaje]

That woman is an idiot.

"That woman makes me think about the sexism in media I consume and that's upsetting, so I'm going to get angry at her" -- How everyone else reads this.

Makes us think about how utterly unimportant it is.

[Shaggai]

Why do you think that?

Maybe because the amount of useless female characters is overshadowed by the useful ones.

At least I struggle to find them.

Really? I mean, I mostly play Portal and Minecrft, but let's make a list. Everyone can list any female roles they can think of and classify them as sexist or non-sexist. I'll start off with a few non-sexist ones. Let's see: Chell from Portal, Alyx Vance, Samus, and what was that person's name from Fallout 3 again?

[Choronzon]

Did...did you just quote the third Blade movie?

Yes. Yes I did.

....Why?

[Choronzon]

"As a male who plays female characters I feel I am in an authoritative position to comment on whether or not a game is sexist."

Yeah....thats not really any better,

Ok and "I'm a wimmiz"

Certainly they are in a better position, because as the people who actually have to deal with institutionalized sexism on a daily basis they're more inclined to see it.

or "I'm a liberul" makes you people authorities on what is sexist, amirite?

Yes, you are.

Also, I'm not a male.

Since when?

[Zweite Alaje]

Maybe because the amount of useless female characters is overshadowed by the useful ones.

At least I struggle to find them.

Really? I mean, I mostly play Portal and Minecrft, but let's make a list. Everyone can list any female roles they can think of and classify them as sexist or non-sexist. I'll start off with a few non-sexist ones. Let's see: Chell from Portal, Alyx Vance, Samus, and what was that person's name from Fallout 3 again?

Talim, Seong-Mina, and Hilda from Soul series

Xiaoyu, Zafina, Julia from Tekken.

Lieselotte, Saki, and Weiß from Arcana Hearts series.

I can go on and on, there are plenty of female characters that don't meet the pornstar body-stripper outfit motif.