Sexism in video games.

[Olthar]

She paralyzed me and let Mercer stab me. That's not saving, especially not when she can just, you know, let me run away with her?

And she could do this how, exactly? You're on opposite sides of the room, and at that point in time, you are hellbent on killing her.

Yes, just running away gleefully with her is a totally valid option.

Then run away without putting me in mortal danger. Am I the only one in possession of an imagination here?

That was an option. Also, I'm the motherfucking Dragonborn. Mercer is a weakling who can't do anything to me.

You're forgetting the whole plot about a thieves luck, and the skeleton key.

No I'm not. I'm the Dragonborn. I'm the reincarnation of Talos. I'm above such petty nonsense. Nocturnal holds no power over me.

Also, she doesn't know you're the Dragonborn. She worked with what she had. Can you really fault her for that?

Yes because if I wasn't the Dragonborn, Mercer would have killed me. Your average thief cannot survive a sword to the face.

Unless I'm lying on the ground paralyzed, of course. She didn't save me. She put me in mortal danger and then claimed victory when my own toughness saved me. The only reason I lived there is because I'm too strong to get killed by a sword to the face. If I was literally anyone else, her "plan" would have failed completely, and she'd have been directly responsible for murder.

If you recall, the poison slowed your blood, and prevented you from bleeding out. She was directly responsible for preserving your life, as well as hers by the way.

If you recall, I'm not a powerless weakling who's incapable of self defense. If Mercer tried face stabbing me while I was capable of mobility, he would have failed, and I wouldn't have to worry about blood loss. I'm carrying 20 pounds of potions and have healing magic. I'd have been fine if only I could move.

As for your "toughness" winning out...yeah, no.

I've single-handedly killed dozens of dragons as well as wiping out hundreds of monsters and undead. A single thief is nothing.

[New Octopucta]

No, it's making everything customizable. Not being afraid. Oh, they could put a 'sexuality' option when making the character, true, but it still isn't about fear. Not in a game where you can choose practically everything else about your character.

You've misread my complaint. The issue isn't the PC's sexuality. It's that no romance option has a defined sexuality. All of their sexualities change to fit the PC's.

[Verbal Pararhea]

Why not.

Because I don't consider sexuality important and I wish other people thought the same. I hate identity politics in general. Hell, I hate belonging to things in general.

[Edlichbury]

You don't get "caught" by the mom. You go through the plan to intentionally get caught so the daughter can ambush the mom, and at most you sit in a chair.

And this was all written in the very link you provided as well.

Plan or not, she could have let you die. Though, my point still stands unless you can find any quests where you get saved by a man.

The very first mission in the game.
Literally, the very first thing you do.
And just in case: IN LITERALLY THE VERY FIRST MISSION A MAN SAVES YOU FROM BEING KILLED BY A DRAGON.

[Choronzon]

You expect intellectual consistency from children?

Why would you do that?

Because my three year old cousin understands that people have names.

...this is an appropriate response.

[Gauntleted Fist]

You kick his ass pretty hard later in the story when he still has the key.

Only after becoming a Nightengale, and receiving powers from Nocturnal.

You all seem to be ignoring that Skyrim is an open world RPG. While Gameplay wise, you may be an all-powerful god, story wise, that might not be the case. And the point of the game is the story.

So while you may say "the fight was easy", that's speaking from a Gameplay perspective. From a story perspective, the fight was impossible (or at the very least, too damn risky) up until that point in time, due to the lore of the game.

Yes, the player character that single-handedly kills dragons and consumes their souls for power is definitely in danger from a character that's empowered by a Daedric being.

I mean this isn't a problem of the player character, story-wise, being an actual reincarnation of a godlike being with the power to slay mythic beast out of legend as their day job or anything.

[Olthar]

You kick his ass pretty hard later in the story when he still has the key.

Only after becoming a Nightengale, and receiving powers from Nocturnal.

You all seem to be ignoring that Skyrim is an open world RPG. While Gameplay wise, you may be an all-powerful god, story wise, that might not be the case. And the point of the game is the story.

So while you may say "the fight was easy", that's speaking from a Gameplay perspective. From a story perspective, the fight was impossible (or at the very least, too damn risky) up until that point in time, due to the lore of the game.

From a story perspective, Nocturnal gives you all of jack and shit. Remember, the contract of the Nightingales has been broken, so she doesn't actually bestow a goddamn thing upon you until the Key is returned to the Twilight Sepulcher. You are exactly the same as you were before except now you've got some fancy new armor that probably isn't as good as what you were already using.

[Edlichbury]

Because my three year old cousin understands that people have names.

...this is an appropriate response.

I think that's a compliment.

Thanks.

[New Octopucta]

Only after becoming a Nightengale, and receiving powers from Nocturnal.

You all seem to be ignoring that Skyrim is an open world RPG. While Gameplay wise, you may be an all-powerful god, story wise, that might not be the case. And the point of the game is the story.

So while you may say "the fight was easy", that's speaking from a Gameplay perspective. From a story perspective, the fight was impossible (or at the very least, too damn risky) up until that point in time, due to the lore of the game.

You're still missing the point that Mercer had no intention of killing you off until Karliah put you in a position where it would be almost effortless for him. Sure her arrow saved you, but it was what almost got you killed in the first place and she had no way of knowing that he wouldn't just leave you there rather than stab you.

[Aurora Novus]

Then run away without putting me in mortal danger. Am I the only one in possession of an imagination here?

Yes. because Mercer wasn't going to try and kill you afterwards anyway.

Oh wait, that's exactly what his plan was.

No I'm not. I'm the Dragonborn. I'm the reincarnation of Talos. I'm above such petty nonsense. Nocturnal holds no power over me.

According to the lore, that's not the case. Gameplay is secondary to story.

Yes because if I wasn't the Dragonborn, Mercer would have killed me. Your average thief cannot survive a sword to the face.

Again, the poison stopped you from dying, not you being Dragonborn.

If you recall, I'm not a powerless weakling who's incapable of self defense. If Mercer tried face stabbing me while I was capable of mobility, he would have failed, and I wouldn't have to worry about blood loss. I'm carrying 20 pounds of potions and have healing magic. I'd have been fine if only I could move.

You are, once again, completely ignoring lore for gameplay. You are forgetting this is an RPG.

I've single-handedly killed dozens of dragons as well as wiping out hundreds of monsters and undead. A single thief is nothing.

A single thief with the luck of the gods on their side? No, you wouldn't win. That's the whole reason you had to receive powers from Nocturnal in the first place.

[Choronzon]

...this is an appropriate response.

I think that's a compliment.

Thanks.

I mean, it really was the best response.

[Asuiop]

And she could do this how, exactly? You're on opposite sides of the room, and at that point in time, you are hellbent on killing her.

Yes, just running away gleefully with her is a totally valid option.

Then run away without putting me in mortal danger. Am I the only one in possession of an imagination here?

Running away would have put you in mortal danger since Mercer would have stabbed you in the back anyway.

You're forgetting the whole plot about a thieves luck, and the skeleton key.

No I'm not. I'm the Dragonborn. I'm the reincarnation of Talos. I'm above such petty nonsense. Nocturnal holds no power over me.

And she would know this how? Barely anyone knows you're Dragonborn throughout the entire game.

Also, she doesn't know you're the Dragonborn. She worked with what she had. Can you really fault her for that?

Yes because if I wasn't the Dragonborn, Mercer would have killed me. Your average thief cannot survive a sword to the face.

1. Yes they can actually(Skyrim logic)
2. Actually Mercer would have picked anyone for the job, you just happened to come along,

If you recall, the poison slowed your blood, and prevented you from bleeding out. She was directly responsible for preserving your life, as well as hers by the way.

If you recall, I'm not a powerless weakling who's incapable of self defense. If Mercer tried face stabbing me while I was capable of mobility, he would have failed, and I wouldn't have to worry about blood loss. I'm carrying 20 pounds of potions and have healing magic. I'd have been fine if only I could move.

Except, in cinematic mode, Mercer can kill you from a single stab in the back(Once again, Skyrim logic)

As for your "toughness" winning out...yeah, no.

I've single-handedly killed dozens of dragons as well as wiping out hundreds of monsters and undead. A single thief is nothing.

This quest is made for you to do early on in the game, most of these faction quests are. It would make no sense for them to call you an awesome dragon slaying dragonborn early on in the game if you haven't done the main quest.

[Edlichbury]

Then run away without putting me in mortal danger. Am I the only one in possession of an imagination here?

Yes. because Mercer wasn't going to try and kill you afterwards anyway.

Oh wait, that's exactly what his plan was.

No I'm not. I'm the Dragonborn. I'm the reincarnation of Talos. I'm above such petty nonsense. Nocturnal holds no power over me.

According to the lore, that's not the case. Gameplay is secondary to story.

Yes because if I wasn't the Dragonborn, Mercer would have killed me. Your average thief cannot survive a sword to the face.

Again, the poison stopped you from dying, not you being Dragonborn.

If you recall, I'm not a powerless weakling who's incapable of self defense. If Mercer tried face stabbing me while I was capable of mobility, he would have failed, and I wouldn't have to worry about blood loss. I'm carrying 20 pounds of potions and have healing magic. I'd have been fine if only I could move.

You are, once again, completely ignoring lore for gameplay. You are forgetting this is an RPG.

I've single-handedly killed dozens of dragons as well as wiping out hundreds of monsters and undead. A single thief is nothing.

A single thief with the luck of the gods on their side? No, you wouldn't win. That's the whole reason you had to receive powers from Nocturnal in the first place.

Gameplay wise, you are literally a god in human form as well as the single most powerful person that ever lived. You can also have the blessings of almost every god in the world.

I don't care what justification you give, but Karliah's "rescue" is pretty much bunk.

[Gauntleted Fist]

A single thief with the luck of the gods on their side? No, you wouldn't win. That's the whole reason you had to receive powers from Nocturnal in the first place.

A single thief with the luck of a Daedric being against the reincarnation of a literal god with the ability to summon the heroes of legend to fight in their time of need and a literal fucking dragon out of the sky to fight at their side?

I don't think you understand. The character, story-wise, is literally an overpowered godlike being gracing the planet with their presence to save it in its time of need after you've completed the main storyline. You kill mythic beast out of legend as a description of your day job.

[Aurora Novus]

You're still missing the point that Mercer had no intention of killing you off until Karliah put you in a position where it would be almost effortless for him.

Except, he did. Watch the scene again. It's kinda obvious he was planning on backstabbing you at some point or another to begin with, because he felt threatened by your presence in the guild (in fact, he mentions this in the final confrontation as I recall).

[Asuiop]

Plan or not, she could have let you die. Though, my point still stands unless you can find any quests where you get saved by a man.

The very first mission in the game.
Literally, the very first thing you do.
And just in case: IN LITERALLY THE VERY FIRST MISSION A MAN SAVES YOU FROM BEING KILLED BY A DRAGON.

Okay, sorry little brain fart there. But can you name any other instances of this?

[Shaggai]

No, it's making everything customizable. Not being afraid. Oh, they could put a 'sexuality' option when making the character, true, but it still isn't about fear. Not in a game where you can choose practically everything else about your character.

You've misread my complaint. The issue isn't the PC's sexuality. It's that no romance option has a defined sexuality. All of their sexualities change to fit the PC's.

Well then. That makes sense. I misunderstood you. Now I agree with you.

[Kannas]

Most stories across various media goes like this. The protagonist is the hero, he or she does the saving. Everyone else gets saved. So that means if the protagonist is male, he will save all the other characters, who aren't villains. Most protagonists are male, perhaps because http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MostWritersAreMale and people write what they know. In fact it is probably the video game's industry reliance on tropes and stereotypes that causes most of the problems, because they are really just rewriting the same games, over and over again. Also, story is often secondary in a game, compared to gameplay.

Anyway, it all centres on the hero, and in video games, it is a bit about you acting out a fantasy. Most video games heroes are pretty much super powered and take on at least 10 enemies or so at once. If they have a flaw, it is a moral one. Everyone else is just to serve as a foil, enemy or love interest. Because they serve as a foil, they will be weak, to show the hero is strong, afraid, to show the hero is brave, etc. I mean even Robin, who is basically a teen-age Batman gets captured all the time, like Tonto did.

[Verbal Pararhea]

Gameplay wise, you are literally a god in human form as well as the single most powerful person that ever lived.

[nitpick]No, Tiber Septim is the most powerful person that ever lived.[/nitpick]

[Edlichbury]

Then run away without putting me in mortal danger. Am I the only one in possession of an imagination here?

Running away would have put you in mortal danger since Mercer would have stabbed you in the back anyway.

No I'm not. I'm the Dragonborn. I'm the reincarnation of Talos. I'm above such petty nonsense. Nocturnal holds no power over me.

And she would know this how? Barely anyone knows you're Dragonborn throughout the entire game.

Yes because if I wasn't the Dragonborn, Mercer would have killed me. Your average thief cannot survive a sword to the face.

1. Yes they can actually(Skyrim logic)
2. Actually Mercer would have picked anyone for the job, you just happened to come along,

If you recall, I'm not a powerless weakling who's incapable of self defense. If Mercer tried face stabbing me while I was capable of mobility, he would have failed, and I wouldn't have to worry about blood loss. I'm carrying 20 pounds of potions and have healing magic. I'd have been fine if only I could move.

Except, in cinematic mode, Mercer can kill you from a single stab in the back(Once again, Skyrim logic)

I've single-handedly killed dozens of dragons as well as wiping out hundreds of monsters and undead. A single thief is nothing.

This quest is made for you to do early on in the game, most of these faction quests are. It would make no sense for them to call you an awesome dragon slaying dragonborn early on in the game if you haven't done the main quest.

Tell me: is that more of a rescue than someone unbinding your hands and giving you a weapon and armor then helping you escape from a dragon attack while you are literally at the weakest you'll be all game?

Because a guy, regardless how you play, saves your life in literally the very first mission.

[Asuiop]

Yes. because Mercer wasn't going to try and kill you afterwards anyway.

Oh wait, that's exactly what his plan was.



According to the lore, that's not the case. Gameplay is secondary to story.




Again, the poison stopped you from dying, not you being Dragonborn.




You are, once again, completely ignoring lore for gameplay. You are forgetting this is an RPG.




A single thief with the luck of the gods on their side? No, you wouldn't win. That's the whole reason you had to receive powers from Nocturnal in the first place.

Gameplay wise, you are literally a god in human form as well as the single most powerful person that ever lived. You can also have the blessings of almost every god in the world.

I don't care what justification you give, but Karliah's "rescue" is pretty much bunk.

You really have no idea of what an RPG is do you?

[Shaggai]

No, it's making everything customizable. Not being afraid. Oh, they could put a 'sexuality' option when making the character, true, but it still isn't about fear. Not in a game where you can choose practically everything else about your character.

You've misread my complaint. The issue isn't the PC's sexuality. It's that no romance option has a defined sexuality. All of their sexualities change to fit the PC's.

Well then. That makes sense. I misunderstood you. Now I agree with you.

[Olthar]

Then run away without putting me in mortal danger. Am I the only one in possession of an imagination here?

Yes. because Mercer wasn't going to try and kill you afterwards anyway.

Oh wait, that's exactly what his plan was.

No it wasn't. He had no intention of killing off his best pawn unless it was convenient to do so, and when I'm able to fight back is not "convenient."

No I'm not. I'm the Dragonborn. I'm the reincarnation of Talos. I'm above such petty nonsense. Nocturnal holds no power over me.

According to the lore, that's not the case. Gameplay is secondary to story.

That part of my post was entirely lore, as emphasized by the fact that it's not even explicitly mentioned anywhere in the game.

Yes because if I wasn't the Dragonborn, Mercer would have killed me. Your average thief cannot survive a sword to the face.

Again, the poison stopped you from dying, not you being Dragonborn.

No, it's being the Dragonborn. That's why I'm so godlike powerful in the game. You know, Skyrim kind of has story explanations for all the gameplay elements. They don't exist in separate rooms. The reason the protagonist of Skyrim is strong enough to kill everything is because they're, you know, the dragonborn.

If you recall, I'm not a powerless weakling who's incapable of self defense. If Mercer tried face stabbing me while I was capable of mobility, he would have failed, and I wouldn't have to worry about blood loss. I'm carrying 20 pounds of potions and have healing magic. I'd have been fine if only I could move.

You are, once again, completely ignoring lore for gameplay. You are forgetting this is an RPG.

So, suddenly the lore of The Elder Scrolls universe doesn't have magic or potions as existing?

I've single-handedly killed dozens of dragons as well as wiping out hundreds of monsters and undead. A single thief is nothing.

A single thief with the luck of the gods on their side? No, you wouldn't win. That's the whole reason you had to receive powers from Nocturnal in the first place.

Mercer does not have the luck of the gods on his side. He was disowned by Nocturnal. And you receive nothing from her.

[Asuiop]

Running away would have put you in mortal danger since Mercer would have stabbed you in the back anyway.

And she would know this how? Barely anyone knows you're Dragonborn throughout the entire game.

1. Yes they can actually(Skyrim logic)
2. Actually Mercer would have picked anyone for the job, you just happened to come along,

Except, in cinematic mode, Mercer can kill you from a single stab in the back(Once again, Skyrim logic)

This quest is made for you to do early on in the game, most of these faction quests are. It would make no sense for them to call you an awesome dragon slaying dragonborn early on in the game if you haven't done the main quest.

Tell me: is that more of a rescue than someone unbinding your hands and giving you a weapon and armor then helping you escape from a dragon attack while you are literally at the weakest you'll be all game?

Because a guy, regardless how you play, saves your life in literally the very first mission.

And then later on you don't need to be saved by anyone, except Karliah in that particular scene. your point?

[Frisivisia]

Gameplay wise, you are literally a god in human form as well as the single most powerful person that ever lived.

[nitpick]No, Tiber Septim is the most powerful person that ever lived.[/nitpick]

My Morrowind Character is a nigh-invincible flying behemoth who can cross Tamriel in a second and kill anything in the world with one hit. Potion glitches sure are fun.