Sexism in video games.

[Gauntleted Fist]

"But I'm a mage and I stand at thirty meters and I shouldn't have to be practical all I do is read a book and drop extremely large rocks on people and GOD DAMN YOU TANK WHY ARE THINGS HITTING ME? And fuck you healer where were my heals, you piece of shit! HOW DARE YOU BOTH LET ME DIE? I'm your best dps! Let me drop big rocks on things so they don't kill you, or me! L2PLAY!!!"

You have obviously never played with bad DPS in MMOs.

I was the puller when I played Everquest, as a squishy enchanter.

My tank had to be very well selected.

I played a Bard. What is this 'getting hit' thing you speak of?

[Gauntleted Fist]

I played a Bard. What is this 'getting hit' thing you speak of?

You and your fucking speed song that made you faster than a locomotive, and fade which made everything forget you.

Some of us had the clickie boots, and we worked with it.

Selo's Accelerando was the fucking best. Oh my god people got so angry at you when you chained sand giants through their farming areas.

[Gauntleted Fist]

People that play tanks would wear practical armor because tanks are the ones that are supposed to get hit by things. Only.

And DPS/healers could just wear whatever the fuck and bitch at the tank/healer when they died because they're obviously not supposed to be getting hit. WHERE WAS MY GODDAMN HEEEAAALLLSSS??

Repeat ad infinitum because DPS are entitled shitheads. (And some healers. And definitely tanks.)

Ah. Then it probably wouldn't work for MMOs.

Not to mention the MMO playerbase is pretty fucking awful in general so they'd cry and whine about not being able to dress their female characters like the sluts they really are.

(Seriously read the MMOchampion forums/WoW forums sometime. It boggles the mind.)

[Gauntleted Fist]

Selo's Accelerando was the fucking best. Oh my god people got so angry at you when you chained sand giants through their farming areas.

I had a bard train me with a bunch of shit one time while I was soloing.

Then she stood and watched as I patiently killed them all by charming them into each other one at a time while holding the rest in mez.

(I was in a top tier guild. My mana pool was deep. )

"Thanks for killing that for me. I would have had to run through like five more zones to get to a town. Now I can go back to AE kiting eighty mobs."

[Gauntleted Fist]

1. Legit complaint. Though, remember, games are meant to appeal to who? Teenage boys. Horny teenage boys.

Exactly. And why the fuck is that? And why do women have to have cartoonish proportions to be sexy? Why can't being a person be sexy?

But you don't understand huge tits (like double H at the least, man) are perfectly normal and sustainable while in hard combat situations, man.

Like I mean girls have totally got to chip a nail every now and then, right?

[Gauntleted Fist]

Exactly. And why the fuck is that? And why do women have to have cartoonish proportions to be sexy? Why can't being a person be sexy?

Well, you won't find many women capable of casting magic missile and hacking the head off of a troll with their +10 sword of slaying.

It's common knowledge that level 30 templars are much sexier than regular people. Regular people certainly CAN be sexy, but people with the capability of instantly healing wounds or summoning a lightning storm are much sexier just by default.

But magic does terrible things to the body just ask the blood elves.

[Geilinor]

Anyone else noticing the ad here that says "male gamers only"? With a picture of a sexually objectified woman of course.

I have Adblock now, but I've never seen that ad before.

[Geilinor]

At the end of Medal of Honor: Warfighter it says: "Real life superheroes exist. They walk among us every day, ready to defend our great nation in a moment's notice. They are husbands, fathers, brothers and sons capable of staring death in the face."

Because the women that serve aren't heroes.

Even before women could serve in frontline combat roles, they did serve in the military.

[Geilinor]

Yeah, games are sexist, but that's a byproduct of the fact that the target audience is mostly men

Plenty of females play video games, it just isn't a sterotypically "female activity".

[Geilinor]

Plenty of females play video games, it just isn't a sterotypically "female activity".

Right, but the target and peripheral audiences of gaming are different. Gaming's target audience is mainly men, with women making up the peripheral audience.

Similar to how the Brony phenomena is a peripheral audience, when really MLP is meant to target young girls.

Women just need to start playing more video games.

[Geilinor]

Kill Russian guy, 'merica wins again.

That sums up most of the spy movies ever made.

[Geilinor]

Women just need to start playing more video games.

And big companies need to start realizing that their target audience does not just boil down to "oily-skinned nerds who fap to any sort of naked skin on a woman and drink Mountain Dew with their Cheetos-fingers all day".

[Geilinor]

No, it something attractive. To males it is the tits of the females, to women it is muscles and hairstyle. Same shit

No. Do I need to show you the comic again? Male characters are not created with being appealing to women in mind. They are created with the goal of being appealing to men. Just like female characters are created with the goal of being appealing to men.

That's a significant part of the problem.

Why is everything created to be appealing to men?

[Geilinor]

Why is everything created to be appealing to men?

... Because men are believed to be the mainstream gaming audience? Since when have big-name companies ever given a shit about women when it comes to production targeting or marketing?

They really need to start recognizing that women are half of the population and that marketing to them as well simply makes sense. It's isn't just video games though. It's true of many other things as well.

[Geilinor]

The interesting thing is I am a male gamer and I find girls who aren't all thrown in to look all sexualized in stupid armor more attractive then "Omg big boobs in half-naked armor"

Just putting this out there, but from an asexual's point-of-view, hypersexualized females are not aesthetically pleasing. For one thing, massive mammaries and asses that look like they need to shed a few pounds definitely do not blend with stick-figure bodies. They just don't, not aesthetically at least. Maybe people find sexual value in them but I find that they appear... wrong... Just doesn't feel like the character design had any thought put into it (which it probably didn't) beyond "HERP DERP SEXY"

They aren't realistic either.

[Genivaria]

I'm sure it's already been touched on as it's one of the more obvious bits of sexism in gaming but I don't know how else to insert myself into this thread.
MMO female armor, the fuck? I'm sorry but I just can't take a game seriously when I see this.

[Genivaria]

I actually liked CKII, it wasnt perfect, but a good game. Now some mechanics are retarded (as King of Serbia I turned muslim out of the blue). And I just hate their excuse for a Byzantine Empire...

Now, on Paradox games, I just hate people who say the game s are complex... you can easily master them in a week if you have already played an other one

My only previous Paradox games was Mount and Blade and I stuck mostly to Total War in terms of strategy games, so yeah it took me awhile to get the hang of it and I've still not mastered EU or VICKY.

[Genivaria]

My only previous Paradox games was Mount and Blade and I stuck mostly to Total War in terms of strategy games, so yeah it took me awhile to get the hang of it and I've still not mastered EU or VICKY.

M&B doesnt count since it is developed by an other company

And VICKY is by far the hardest to master, but this is due to the economy being badly made

Nice to know it's not me then.

[Genivaria]

I think that's different. I think that's not what feminists want. Certainly not what I want for a plot oriented game (Skyrim is good, but it's not exactly a beacon of gender equality because of it's lack of story). Because for one, the main character, you, is devoid of any personality whatsoever.

I could only remember a few games that forces you to be on the opposite role and I'm not even sure if it's good enough. Beyond Good & Evil is one. Dreamfall. Those are obscure games at that.

I can't speak to "what feminists want," since I'm not all feminists, but I can absolutely speak to what a feminist wants.

I want games like Skyrim, in which I can choose to play as a woman and not be forced to turn my character into the magical Dragonborn Stripper in order to play the game.

I want games like Portal, in which both the voiceless protagonist and the rather talkative antagonist are female and it matters not one whit.

I want games in which I can play as a fully fleshed-out, preexisting character who happens to be female, rather than an endless string of "in this new, innovative game, you play as a muscly white dude! Because that is a thing you've only been in roughly 90% of all games ever!" Ideally, I'd also love it if I could sometimes play as non-white, gay, disabled*, overweight, etc. I want the variety of game protagonists to reflect the variety of human beings in the world. I also want those protagonists to be characters who may be impacted by their race, gender, etc. without it defining them in stupid, sexist, racist ways. (See the article linked a few pages back about Tomb Raider and the idea that players should want to "protect" Lara Croft rather than BE her. Fuck that noise.)

I want games in which I see heroes who look like me. I want games in which the people who look like me are not used as decorative objects or prizes to be won, but as characters in their own right. I want games in which not ALL the female characters are played as "sexy," and the ones who are are sexy for actual plot/character reasons rather than "look, boobies."

I want games that don't leave me feeling dirty for playing them.

I want games in which I'm a person. Simple as that, really.

*I recognize that this one, unlike the rest, can't just be slotted in to any character, but there are absolutely game concepts in which the PC could be in a wheelchair or missing a limb or something and it would in no way harm and quite possibly enhance the game.

I can think of at least one way that 'sexy' can actually be used with a good character without being all there is to her character, maybe she's an assassin who uses her looks to get her target alone or something.
It's perfectly fine to have 'sexy' be a part of their character as long as there's more to her character then that.

[Genivaria]

I think mainly, like all media, yes, video games can have sexist, racist, or other discriminatory elements too them.

I think the solution to this is to simply play and endorse the games that don't do this.

And, if you're in design, just make a character that breaks the mold and standards. I'm currently making a platformer where ya play as a conservatively dressed swordswoman/time wizard, partially to break the standards of male protagonists and female character dress attire. If you don't like the standards society sets, then just break 'em.

Wish granted.

[Genivaria]

Wish granted.

(Image)

What is that? Agrias from Final Fantasy Tactics?

Saber from Fate/Stay Night. Real name: Arturia Pendragon
She also looks damn good in a suit.

[Genivaria]

Yeah I don`t care much about the subjective opinions of sexists.

At a certain point, calling people names and declaring everything subjective just makes you an an-cap.

Silence you Randian!

[Genivaria]

The only sexism I can see that pervades games is the same problem that TV shows and other media have.
Namely the emphasis on white heterosexual male leads.
There isn't anything specific about games.
If anything, it's way more understandable here since the vast majority, instead of just a plurality or minority, are ACTUALLY white heterosexual males.
As such, focusing on games is completely missing the point. You need to focus on societies conception of what "Normal" is. As soon as you accept that, you immediately see why Sarkeesians videos are going to be a huge fucking waste of time and just drag oonnn and onnnn and ooonnnn and make tonnes of factual errors, all going over the same basic point.
That white heterosexual male = normal.
But she thinks it's about games.
An idiot, basically.

Thankfully we are starting to see a more even-handed approach in regards to gender in media.
MLP for example. Actually I think I'll bring that up in the pony thread.

[Genivaria]

There has to be a better word than feminism that doesn't sound like its all female superiority-ish. What about equalism?

Then everyone is happy.

EDIT: That may of been a tad off topic. I apologize.

Oh god this crap again?

[Genivaria]

Yes. Women can very much relate to getting kidnapped all the time and having to wait for the big, strong man to save her.

Everyone can relate to the fear of losing a loved one, and and thinking about to what extent they would go to save them.

Come on, stretch those critical reading skills a little.

And the last time a woman saved a man in a video game was......?