Sexism in video games.

[Des-Bal]

Unlike teenage girls.

No, they make up shit and sell it. Violence, sexism, Nike, whatever the fuck they want. They can sell shitty shoes for a fuckload, and these shoes sell because the media indoctrinates and inundates society with fucked up associations, through rap, general music, TV, video games, billboards, film, porn, magazines, newspapers, or whatever the fuck. Cosmo did not pander to the common ideal, it invented a common ideal.

There are plenty of things being shilled to teenage girls as well. It's easier to divy them up than to make something that crosses the gender gap.

Sorry I dozed off during your diatribe. Violence sells. Sexism sells. So they sell violence and sexism.

[Des-Bal]

By selling sexism, they are encouraging sexism. It's like pushing drugs - sure, you can say heroin sells, but by selling heroin, you are furthering the cycle of heroin addiction and consumption.

I support the legalization of heroin.

It is not the personal responsibility of every individual to promote good values.

[Des-Bal]

Actually, it is, although I suppose that's not really what we're discussing in this thread. The point is that by 'selling' sexism, so to speak, they're creating a demand for sexism that they can sell. Whether or not it's the duty of the media to promote good values is irrelevant - when they are effectively destroying good values through their actions, one should place the guilt with the guilty, whether or not one thinks that they should be punished for it.

They're selling what sells, you can't expect them to do anything more or less than that.

[Des-Bal]

Why, exactly, is it easier to "divy them up" when 45% of gamers are female?

Violence and sexism sell so disproportionately because the media says they're what defines masculinity. It makes you a real man to beat women (or save them, depending: Madonna/whore), to drive a fast car, to kill people, the latter two being what women supposedly find attractive.

The media will tell you exactly what you want to hear. What they do is exactly what they can reasonably be expected to do, to create something they think you will find attractive and get you to cough up the money for it.

[Des-Bal]

I can, actually, and I do. They're creating a market for sales that does nothing but replace a less reprehensible market of not only the exact same size, but the exact same audience, and encourages the perpetuation of such shitty values for no real increase in anything except shitty values.

Fuck values. You are talking about trusting giant corporations to spread good values independently of what makes them money. That's absurd.

[Des-Bal]

Did you read the post?

Sexism does not make them money. You think people choose what video game to buy based on how sexist it is? Fuck no. I'm expecting corporations to not spread shitty values for the sake of spreading shitty values, because that's all it is at this point.

The post was wrong. The gradual homogenyzation of gaming is due to trying to appeal to as many people as humanly possible and that's exactly why they pander to the lowest common denominator. The improbably clad woman and aryan body builder are familiar archetypes that can be mass produced without much care and guaranteed to turn a profit.

[Des-Bal]

Is that why the three Tomb Raider games before the reboot failed miserably? Really, all you're doing is trying to justify sexism without gain with bullshit claims about sexism in society that haven't been true since the 60s. As far as I'm concerned, you're worse than the Tumblr Social Justice Warrior types.

No they failed for a variety of reasons. Sex and violence might sell but when you have nothing behind them you still have a shitty game. I don't think there's anything to justify, the idea that video game companies shill sexism solely because they love sexism is asinine.

[Dezumanian Tribe]

Perhaps because most people don't actually know.

Don't actually know what, that most lead characters in media are white heterosexual males?
Bullshit.
You'd have to be so insanely stupid not to notice it that you couldn't even find the internet in the first place.
Find me someone who thinks most lead characters in media aren't white heterosexual males.

The problem isn't that people are retarded, it is that sexism is so normalized that any attempts to question it is percieved as ultra-radical and catches a ton of flak.

Edit: *The problem isn't only

[Dezumanian Tribe]

The problem isn't that people are retarded, it is that sexism is so normalized that any attempts to question it is percieved as ultra-radical and catches a ton of flak.

Edit: *The problem isn't only

Jesus Christ, for the last fucking time, the problem is that sexism is generally institutionalized to the point where it doesn't appear abnormal so that....

Wait..you...that's what you said. Like, someone actually gets that? Really? Someone understands that point?

Who the fuck are you?

I'm just that special kind of ufo that floats around trying to fit into society despite understanding things. The reason we never appear in debates is because 99% of all debates are actually just people trying to plaster their personal truths all over, and since we ufos rage a constant war against our personal truths to keep an open mind on things we don't really fit there. Whenever I try debating it turns into some silly score game where looking up facts, admitting errors or trying to mediate between conflicting points is seen as "losing" the argument. WTF?

[Dezumanian Tribe]

...How is it sexist to have no female do anything important, and just stand around in the village and gossip?

Really? Thats your question?

Yes.

We're not talking about real life here. We're talking about a fictional universe. A computer program, and bits of data.

Explain how having certain bits of data perform a particular function, instead of another function, is sexist. They aren't real people. They aren't negatively affected by their experiences, unless the game dictates that they should be negatively impacted. I mean, hell, if we want to try and rationalize it by projecting personhood onto these characters, we could easily state that the women in this fictional realm simply like to behave in this way, and are exerting their right and freedom to act in ways they personally enjoy.

How you can rationalize that having a character which is not a fully fleshed out, realistic representation of a human being, is sexist, is beyond me. Perhaps if the game was trying to send a message of "this is how all woman are/should be in real life", you'd have an argument, but unless we're talking about some highly specific game here, games don't do that.

That's like questioning that spoken or written words can be sexist because they are just noises in the air and collections of characters. To answer your question, it can be sexist because humans can think abstractly and therefore relate the not real with the real. Sexism in games serves to reinforce the norm, while stepping away from it might cause people to actually think about it.

Edit: Regarding your "In this world they like it" argument, would you still argue that a brutal rape simulator is OK because in that world women like to be raped and murdered?

[Divair]

It's just an extension of society, really. But it's getting better pretty quickly.

[Divair]

In which you can literally shock (This is exclusively for one female character) and beat your companions causing them to cry.

wat. How did I miss this while playing it?

[Divair]

What's wrong with being sexy?

[DrakoBlaria]

Gamer culture? Really? Really? Really? Is this what the word "culture" has come to? And I though the term "internet culture" was bad.

And no, it is not sexist. Certain products are marketed towards certain people, so when you want teen boys to buy your games, you put boobs on the cover. If you want 5 year old girls to buy your product, you put JB on the cover. Is that sexist to?

[DrakoBlaria]

I think its partly due to the Nerdy Geeky living in your mom's basement stereotype of gamers.

Those people are weird

Meh, nothing gets lower than the cat addicts /jk

[DrakoBlaria]

I think it's pretty common knowledge that video games are marketed towards the young male crowd.

But as someone said earlier, this is hardly the biggest problem in regards to video games. Most games are incredibly violent, foul-mouthed, sex-filled constructions. I buy a lot of these games, but I'm able to separate acceptable behavior in a video game from acceptable behavior in real life. Problem is, a lot of young people can't, especially teens and pre-teens.

So yeah, games are sexist, but at least gender stereotypes are becoming less of an issue than they used to. In contrast, I think the graphic violence, language, and sex are only getting worse.

I grew up with Tekken and GTA. Lots of my peers did to. NONE OF US went out and started beating people on the street for no reason. If you think that younger people cant tell the difference bewteen RL and VG you are insulting their intelligence

[DrakoBlaria]

Because of social stigma saying that women shouldn't enjoy videogames, poor representation of women as characters in games, and the online gamers being douchebags.

Actually, its because we have gone into a positive feedback loop.

Sexism(Sexy ladies in video games) causes more men to start playing video games. The Industry responds to the increased male gaming sector by adding for sexism.

How is it sexism? IT IS MARKETING. The game is supposed to be bought by teenage boys, and what is better for advetisment to teenage boys than TITS? Seriously, are you guys trying to find things to complain about?

[DrakoBlaria]

How is it sexism? IT IS MARKETING. The game is supposed to be bought by teenage boys, and what is better for advetisment to teenage boys than TITS? Seriously, are you guys trying to find things to complain about?

I'm not complaining. I'm a man so I love it. I'm just explaining it to him.

Sorry but, by calling it "sexism" you remind me of those lesbian vloggers or the other "politcally correct white knight" vloggers

[DrakoBlaria]

I grew up with Tekken and GTA. Lots of my peers did to. NONE OF US went out and started beating people on the street for no reason. If you think that younger people cant tell the difference bewteen RL and VG you are insulting their intelligence

I'm 19, friend. And I know plenty of pricks who play games in which the characters cuss/fight/objectify women and then they go and do the same thing in real life. Of course, I'm not saying it's the only factor, but it certainly is a factor

No it certainly isnt a factor. People have been doing the same shit for centuries, long before video games were around.

[DrakoBlaria]

No it certainly isnt a factor. People have been doing the same shit for centuries, long before video games were around.

Read this:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/family/11/03/healthmag.violent.video.kids/

I call BS. As I said, from personal experience, video games dont have an effect on how someone acts

[DrakoBlaria]

I don't always approve of how some female characters in games are portrayed but its either
A) RPGs like skyrim where the women are just as strong as the men but their bodies are over sexualized
B) weak useless characters
C) Retarded characters who give women a bad name

So... what about the fact that most males in Skyrim are ultra buff and full of muscles. Aint that sexism?

[DrakoBlaria]

So... what about the fact that most males in Skyrim are ultra buff and full of muscles. Aint that sexism?

Male power fantasies are not the same as making women into sex objects.

Here's a comic to explain the difference.

Same logic then, not all men find this women attractive, and women might have a fantasy to look like this girls

[DrakoBlaria]

Anyone under their forties and male likes the Halo 4 Cortana girl

Anyone?

Including the 45% of the video game market who are women? Or do we not count?

Sims doesnt count

[DrakoBlaria]

Anyone?

Including the 45% of the video game market who are women? Or do we not count?

Wait, there are male women now? Wow.

No it is just The Sims being a huge franchise dominated by females. Wait, do Facebook games count? That explains EVERYTHING!

[DrakoBlaria]

Same logic then, not all men find this women attractive, and women might have a fantasy to look like this girls

Dunno, some men are into flat chested girls. All these "tits" may be unappealing to them.

That was my point. I actually know people who hate big tits. I know people who like BBWs...