Sexism in video games.

[Dalmacie]

Who would that be?

We do not speak His name.

Ahhh...Come on.

Who?

[Dalmacie]

I'm not saying I have nothing to contribute, but because of the lack of contribution, I raise you one question. What is the goal of feminists? Not that, "Oh, I don't want to be opressed" crap. Specifically, what do they wish to gain?

Something to bitch about?

Oh?

Yes. Damn their hopes for equality. They just want to oppress us Menz. Look at all the rights they have already taken from me and my brothers, I can't even give my wife a good beating anymore.

Can't even rape her if she refuses sex.

What a world.

Bitches, am I right?

The social and political equality of the genders.

(Also, I'm not sure why not wanting to be oppressed is crap. Seems like a pretty reasonable goal to me.)

Such equality is pretty impossible while maintaining a country that's still a pleasure to live in. Look how "well" it went in Sweden, that place looks awful now.

Sweden is horrible?

Oh, sweetheart, what isn't then?

Extremely patriarchal Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan?

All beacons of the modern world, oui?

[Dalmacie]

I just love your strawmen.
Because I don't like you feminist that must mean I support rape and domestic abuse. I'm a terrible human being for getting tired of having to hear some fat old men-hating lesbians complaining.

That was a strawman, indeed.

Much like how claiming all feminists exist for is to bitch.

On the other hand, I, very sarcastically, showed you some of the improvements made by feminism, which shows that yes, those angry, ugly women that you disagree with do have a raison d'être other than "bitching".

I can also guide you to the site of the Femen, a very attractive group of Ukrainian/French feminists, some might say a little extreme, who are not fat, nor old, nor lesbians.

They might hate men, but that's because the Ukraine is such a shithole.

Is that better?

No strawmen, a completely logical reply to an illogical claim.

On the other hand, I doubt you care about logic when it comes to those fat, old, man-hating lesbians, am I right or am I right?

[Dalmacie]

That was a strawman, indeed.

Much like how claiming all feminists exist for is to bitch.

On the other hand, I, very sarcastically, showed you some of the improvements made by feminism, which shows that yes, those angry, ugly women that you disagree with do have a raison d'être other than "bitching".

I can also guide you to the site of the Femen, a very attractive group of Ukrainian/French feminists, some might say a little extreme, who are not fat, nor old, nor lesbians.

They might hate men, but that's because the Ukraine is such a shithole.

Is that better?

No strawmen, a completely logical reply to an illogical claim.

On the other hand, I doubt you care about logic when it comes to those fat, old, man-hating lesbians, am I right or am I right?

Oh?

Yes. Damn their hopes for equality. They just want to oppress us Menz. Look at all the rights they have already taken from me and my brothers, I can't even give my wife a good beating anymore.

Can't even rape her if she refuses sex.

What a world.

Bitches, am I right?

Hm?

Interesting.

[Dalmacie]

No, someone would have to be human.

"I cannot think or make decisions for myself"

Is not the same as " Women dress like sluts on every media platform, so I am going to assume that's what women usually wear in this society".

But thank you for that comment.

EDIT: Or "But women look like non-realistic, overly endowed, femme fatals in every media platform, so I am going to assume that's what women look like in this society".

It is very interesting how someone could disregard the influence of the media, such a major part of modern sociology, because it simply doesn't suit their beliefs.

[Dalmacie]

So let me get this straight: your fundamental argument is that, if it's fun, it can't be sexist?

No, no.

If you're fun, you won't notice it's sexist.

If you do notice it's sexist, that means your life is a boring piece of shit.

[Demen 2]

that's the point

So doing that to a thirteen-year-old opponent is fair play?

Most of the people who play multiplayer games are the same ones that wear fedoras and cry about females being sexist to men, so, they probably don't really know how to speak to actual human beings anyway.


Sexism is a pretty big problem in video games, and I think it's mostly brought on by the stereotypical badass guy as main character, which had just become the norm. There are, of course, games that feature female main characters, like Bayonetta, Tomb Raider, Portal and Silent Hill 3,
but those female main characters are pretty much generically "sexy" (Other than Portal's). Bayonetta's moves even take off her clothes, so those games aren't devoid of sexism. Some are maybe even more sexist than the games that feature male main characters. A lot of triple A games have also started bringing in female characters in their plots, but they're normally scantily clad and basically used as sex icons. Remember Me starred a female main character, too bad the game was pretty bad.

[Des-Bal]

There's absolutely sexism in video games but I don't think that's an example. That's more like pandering,

[Des-Bal]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... WomanHater
Pretty good starting list.

Are we talking about characters who are sexist or character roles that are sexist?

[Des-Bal]

Of course. The real victims of sexism is videogames are obviously the menz.

You think I'm an MRA because you don't read my posts.

Sexism happens in video games and I'd wager it most often effects women. The reason the OP isn't an example is because it's an AD.

Evony online for example is infamous for having ads consisting of nothing but cleavage and the less than subtle implication that you will see boobies if you click the link. When you actually get there however it's a city building game with to my knowledge no sexism whatsoever.

[Des-Bal]

The page literally describes the examples of cases where a man is blatantly sexist.

Can we please attempt to read the links before passing judgment?

I'm aware? I ask again,

Are we discussing CHARACTERS who are sexist or CHARACTER ROLES which are sexist.

The big strong white hero who saves the helpless damsel after she strayed too far from the kitchen and became paralyzed by the world is an example of sexism in video games.

A character who doesn't respect his female boss ISN'T necessarily an example of sexism in video games. If the overarching theme of the game is that women need to know their place that is sexism. Often times characters are supposed to be wrong. Hell, the trope namer for He Man Woman Hater is about characters whose disrespect for women was played as ignorant and childish.

[Des-Bal]

I don't think it is that Sexist really...I mean there are worse games out there that do it but Mario or Zelda?

Yeah Princess Peach is really the typical damsel in distress but I think they use it for comedy reason more then anything negative.

Also Princess Zelda is not a damsel because she is a strong and powerful woman in her own ways that make her a better character then link.

The Damsel in Distress makes sense. Rescue is inherently noble and having the object of rescue be the love interest adds a personal stake. It's overplayed and the elements of "woman weak man strong" have become hopelessly wrapped up in it but it's structurally solid.

[Des-Bal]

You realize this "WOMEN SHOULD BE HAPPY WE SAVED THEM!" fantasy was debunked a long time ago?

What exactly are you talking about?

[Des-Bal]

This whole "But the men are just being noble and saving the women" delusion was addressed somewhere in the first twenty pages or so.

Not reading twenty pages or so as background.

Rescue is one of the fundamental acts of heroism.
Loss of a significant other is a basic fear of anyone in a serious relationship.
Having the character rescue someone is as basic a plot as any and having the object of rescue be the wife/girlfriend/it's complicated of the hero adds a level of drama and makes it personal.


It's structurally sound. It's become wrapped up with sexism and it's overplayed but it's a fundamentally good story. Genders of the parties involved really shouldn't matter.

[Des-Bal]

Because there is nothing sexist about having your female characters all be dainty damsels in distress who need to be rescued by a big strong man nope nope nope.

Now you're making assumptions. If all the female characters are dainty damsels in distress who need to be rescued by a big strong man yes that's probably sexist.

If one character is a dainty damsel in distress that's not a theme. It's one character. Not every character has to be a representation of everyone in the world.

The idea that having one male character rescue one female character is asinine. If one portugese character wears hats all the time that's not imply that all portugese people wear hats.

And above all else the gender shouldn't matter.

[Des-Bal]

Is it sexist if some of them are that way? This whole argument is annoying. It's not inherently sexist to have a damsel in distress character.

The only real point of contention is that the damsel is generally a woman, and the knight in shining armour is generally a man: thus furthering gender stereotypes. I don't see how the plot device as a whole is sexist.[/quote]

That's a product of sexism, historically women have been viewed as weak so historically heroes have been men. Every classic plot is subject to the exact same treatment, the only difference is that in many of them women just aren't featured. I don't know why that's better and I don't know why that should invalidate them as objectively good plots.

[Des-Bal]

Reposting from where I posted it already:

"He really doesn't. He just presents her argument in an entirely inaccurate manner.

Anita states that it is sexist that across all of the most popular games, hardly ever do we get to see a female protagonist trying to save a male damsel. Almost always, we instead see a women get captured and be entirely powerless to stop it.

Thunderfoot responds simply by stating that healthy relationships should work that way.

Let's reflect on that. According to him, women shouldn't complain that they are portrayed as weak, feeble, and powerless. They shouldn't complain that they are relegated to the position of damsel with no meaningful impact. They should instead celebrate this. They should yearn to be treated like a damsel and should feel grateful for it. Based on his views, women should never complain that they are treated as mere prizes, but instead feel good that they had any value at all.

Excuse me if I say that it's pretty fucking sexist to claim that men are heroes and women should be grateful they even get to be saved."

What exactly are you posting that in response to? I haven't seen anyone say that so I don't see why you felt it necessary to repost.

[Des-Bal]

It's the exact argument you made. You stated that it's normal to have the men do the rescuing because that's a healthy relationship.

No I didn't. I said having one character rescue their love interest is good story telling. At no point in time did I post anything like that. Is there another me here? Can you hear his voice?

[Des-Bal]

That is literally what he stated in his video. You are literally arguing the same thing as him while stating "But I'm not!" That's not even intellectually dishonest anymore, that's just being dense.

I'm sure we also have similar opinions on gravity. Having a character rescue their love interest is good story telling. It cinches up the heroic act familiarizes the character and adds a touch of drama.

I never mentioned healthy relationships.
I never said it should be the man doing the saving.
I never said the genders involved matter.

You are arguing with someone not participating in this thread. Stop it.

[Des-Bal]

I get that. Except that is literally exactly what Thunderf00t argued (among other things).

Did he also say water is wet or the sky is blue?

[Des-Bal]

Oh no, never the case for film or video games....

It often isn't. Honestly I can't think of a good movie or game where a characters depth didn't extend beyond their appearance.

[Des-Bal]

I also like how the puppets defending Alaje are somehow oblivious to the fact that he mistook women with female video game characters and acting as though these are one and the same. Or perhaps they don't consider this part of his fucking problem when it very clearly is.

This is especially ironic because earlier in the thread he was doing one of those "men in video games are typecast and unrealistic and not at all like most men" things. Yet for some reason, he thinks that video games accurately depict women (or at least this is suggested by the fact that he somehow can't tell women apart from video game "women").

Explain that again but more clearly.

[Des-Bal]

My point is closer to the former, actually. The intent isn't their, it's not like developers are going "yurr durr, lets do something sexist so people will be sexist". Also the amount that certain media effects people, especially videogames, is almost null. It's really ridiculous how overboard people's reactions are to gaming culture, I just don't see the urgency.

Video Games don't create a culture of sexism they are the products of a culture of sexism. As soon as sexism in video games is no longer profitable I imagine there won't be sexism in video games. Big breasted women with ridiculous outfits sell to their target audience. Their target audience wants to see tough male heroes doing tough male hero activities. Ending sexism in video games requires one of two things, changing the culture that spawns them or convincing large corporations that making as much money as possible isn't that important.

[Des-Bal]

Exactly. And why the fuck is that? And why do women have to have cartoonish proportions to be sexy? Why can't being a person be sexy?

Because Teenage Boys are a large and easy market to sell to. Convince society that everyone is equally sexy and then complain.

[Des-Bal]

Teenage boys don't have a large disposable income.

Conceptions of what's sexy are taught by the media.

They have jobs and parents. Add in the fact that they generally have very few expenses most of their income is disposable.

It is not the objective or the duty of the media to promote an egalitarian society. They pander to whoever has money and they shill whatever they'll buy.