Sexism in video games.

[Dakini]

We're talking about video games here, buddy. You might want to go find whatever thread you fell out of where you were talking about boy bands.

Edward Cullen was designed to be appealing to men? The Twilight series is designed to be male-friendly?

We're talking about video games here, buddy. You might want to go find whatever thread you fell out of where you were talking about boy bands.Twilight.

...also, no. Twilight was Mormon porn. It wasn't exactly female-friendly either in that it was sexist as fuck and the men were all abusive and controlling (except her father).

[Dakini]

We're talking about video games here, buddy. You might want to go find whatever thread you fell out of where you were talking about boy bands.

Or you should read my posts before you reply to them?

No. Maybe you should stop threadjacking.

[Dakini]

Advertising doesn't make something non-sexist.

I can put a bunch of naked women on a sign for a car wash. It's advertising. It's also sexist (both ways) because it takes advantage of the idealized female body stereotype while simultaneously screaming "MEN DON'T THINK WITH ANYTHING EXCEPT THEIR *HUFF* PENSISESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!"

So, do you accept that boy bands are sexist?

Okay, one last one.

Dude, if you think boy bands are sexist...

Seriously, have you paid any attention to the music industry in forever? It's fucking sexist as shit.

Though not generally against men. And not for the reasons you're thinking either (well, some of those reasons).

[Dakini]

No. Maybe you should stop threadjacking.

Giving you a counter example to which you dont have a response to is threadjacking?

Dude. Britney fucking Spears. Christina Aguillera.

Whoever the fuck else is big right now, I don't follow pop music. The music industry is infinitely more sexist toward women than it it toward men.

[Dakini]

Dude. Britney fucking Spears. Christina Aguillera.

Whoever the fuck else is big right now, I don't follow pop music. The music industry is infinitely more sexist toward women than it it toward men.

Johnas brothers
Justing Fucking Biber or whatever

Actually, those aren't sexist (though the latter has turned out to be a giant chodemonger).

Good job not getting it.

[Dakini]

It's much easier to point to Ivy from the Soul series as an example of crossing that line.

Ugh, yes. I like the Soul series as fighting games, but there are times when I just can't stand playing them anymore because of how ridiculous most of the women, and especially Ivy, are.

(On the bright side, I am REALLY GOOD as Talim, whom I started playing initially specifically because (a) her boobs are a vaguely plausible size relative to the rest of her frame, rather than being giant balloons attached to a stick-figure body and (b) she gets to fight in actual pants rather than a miniskirt or a damn dominatrix costume. She still has to fight in what appears to be a tiny tube top, but I'll take what I can get. *sigh*)

I liked Seoung Mina, but she's not always in the game.

[Dakini]

Dude. Britney fucking Spears. Christina Aguillera.

Whoever the fuck else is big right now, I don't follow pop music. The music industry is infinitely more sexist toward women than it it toward men.

No one likes Britney Spears, Christina lost her edge.

...when I was in high school, the people in junior high liked Britney Spears. I don't know current pop stars anymore.


....shaddup...

[Dakini]

Now, that Jap girl who wanted to kill Mitsurigi is interesting

Wow! And now we're onto the racial slurs! Fantastic.

[Dakini]

Wow! And now we're onto the racial slurs! Fantastic.

She is from Japan for God's saying. Does breathing air offened you? What about walking?

Given that you used a term for Japanese people which has been offensive for the last 60 or so years, maybe you should get a clue.

[Dakini]

I'm sorry, I just had to take a moment to appreciate this:

Come back when you have an actual point to make.

Oh I have several points I've already made, on many occassions. You confuse "not having a point to make" with "not having a point I'm capable of understanding". Which, you know, isn't all that surprising really. It's kinda like showing the Mona Lisa to a blind dude. The painting is there. You just can't see it.

My argument is, and always has been, quite clear. You just seem to lack the capacity to understand it.

Nicely done.

[Dakini]

I find it sexist that Peach can float in Mario 2.

Because you have no clue what sexism is.


Also, Super Mario Brothers 2 was basically Mario characters (introducing Toad) replacing sprites from a different Japanese game because the Japanese version of the game was too hard and Nintendo didn't want to risk the popularity of the series in the US. The only reason Peach can float is that one of the characters in the original game can float.


Also... she sucks at digging. All of the characters have their good and bad sides. Luigi can jump super high (but his jumps are hard to control), Toad can dig super fast (but can't jump very high) and Mario is just decent all around.

[Dakini]

I'm sorry, I just had to take a moment to appreciate this:



Nicely done.

check's in the mail. Go buy yourself something pretty.

I have had my eye on some of these.

[Dakini]

Because you have no clue what sexism is.


Also, Super Mario Brothers 2 was basically Mario characters (introducing Toad) replacing sprites from a different Japanese game because the Japanese version of the game was too hard and Nintendo didn't want to risk the popularity of the series in the US. The only reason Peach can float is that one of the characters in the original game can float.


Also... she sucks at digging. All of the characters have their good and bad sides. Luigi can jump super high (but his jumps are hard to control), Toad can dig super fast (but can't jump very high) and Mario is just decent all around.

...That was a joke.

Considering the number of posts that have been all "Oh, but having a muscly guy is sexist!" it's hard to tell.

[Dakini]

I have had my eye on some of these.

You are the biggest astronerd.

But they're so pretty!

[Dakini]

Considering the number of posts that have been all "Oh, but having a muscly guy is sexist!" it's hard to tell.

I was gonna say "It's sexist because it's just an opportunity for misogynistic snifits to look up her skirt" and make a big joke out of it, but with such a concise reply I'd feel bad.

Hehe. Fair enough.

[Dakini]

If it's so easy then I'm sure you'd be willing to provide a summary.

She gets release dates wrong.
The thing she said about Crystal? Never happened. Completely fucking fabricated. (Ofcourse, she doesn't cite sources either.)
Pretty much every figure in her video is wrong. Dates are wrong, sales are wrong, number of games in a series is wrong, any time she uses a number, go check it.
I've seen a 1 hour rebuttal to her 10 minute video because she got so much wrong in such a small amount of time that somebody could spend a half hour correcting her, and the other half hour basically saying shes an idiot. (switching between the two.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgaYBsUb5e4
That video.

So a video which doesn't cite sources and starts off with "feminists are authoritarian and the same as the religious right"? Then references the thunderf00t video (which someone in the thread already linked and was already rebutted twice in this thread alone) and claims that Anita S. has participated in skeezy behaviour (while linking to a petition to get himself a television show).

Oh, and a bunch of the comments include such nice things to say about Anita S. such as "she's a cunt".


Yeah, I'm not watching more than an hour of this shit.

[Dakini]

So a video which doesn't cite sources and starts off with "feminists are authoritarian"?


Yeah, I'm not watching more than an hour of this shit.

Sources are in the bum-bar. (Specifically the star-fox thing)

That's the only thing there are sources about.

Other videos are linked also, some of which have sources.

The thunderf00t one which was already discussed in this thread and rebutted? Yeah. Right.

You'll note he said far-left feminists are authoritarian. That's completely true.

Except not.

The gail dines drones are no different from the moral conservatives.

What the fuck is a gail dines drone?

It's nice to know though, that if you want to succeed at feminism all you gotta do is make so much shit up and get so much wrong, that any rebuttal is too long for people to sit through.

Dude, I listened to the first 10 minutes of this crap. He speaks way too slowly and is way too boring to be using video as a medium. He could probably learn to express himself clearly and concisely, but he'd rather hear himself talk so he doesn't.

There's no way you need one hour, 12 minutes and 17 seconds to "debunk" a video that's what, 20 minutes long? This guy doesn't know how to get to the point. That's his problem.

[Dakini]

Can you explain to me why Sarkeesian needs an entire video series to state the incredibly obvious and make out it's well researched?

If you read this very thread, it's pretty clear that it's not incredibly obvious to a lot of people.

Other than this broad point, every single fact she brings up that can possibly be verified objectively, is fucking wrong.
(Release dates, etc.)

Except not... since release dates seems to be the only issue, the "etc" is pretty bullshit here.

I've become convinced shes a professional victim.

That's nice.

She states the blindingly obvious, uses feminist phrases

"uses feminist phrases" what the fuck does that even mean?

while purposefully throwing in a bunch of factual errors

Not really.

and trolling the shit out of everyone,

I liked her stuff before the sexist fuckheads on the internet threatened to rape her en masse.

people snap at her,

Fucking seriously?

Here's the Tedx talk she gave about the online harassment she faced. Here's an article describing the harassment (which includes censored drawings of her being raped, screenshots of her wiki page after vandalism and a screenshot of a game someone made where you can punch her in the face).

This isn't fucking "snapping".

This is a fucking harassment mob.


Get a fucking clue. Seriously.

As well as people too caught up in ideology to notice they are being played.

Yes, we're being played by getting a nice video series she's been starting to release.

[Dakini]

Oh, and if anyone wanted a link to the second part of the Tropes vs Women in video games here it is. Since someone was complaining about how the games in the first one were old (because it was about a history of the damsel in distress), this is part two.

[Dakini]

I mean, look at what we're dealing with here. The argument was that a woman who discusses sexism in video game culture shouldn't be listened to because she got a RELEASE DATE WRONG.

The argument literally is "your claim that a hypersexualized storyline in which rescuing a, presumably heretosexual female, whose sole purpose in the plotline is to allow for heroics centered around the male hero, is a profoundly sexist because it continues the image that women exist only in relation to men, and only as narrative tools in their story, the only one worth following, and must remain helpless until rescued, doesn't count, because you said Tomb Raider came out in May and it came out in EARLY JUNE!

CHECKMATE FEMINISTS!"

This is, literally, what people think is an argument.

I'll reitterate my earlier statement. Absolutely fucking pathetic.

When all she's doing is stating the obvious, OR getting figures wrong, it becomes incredibly difficult to take her seriously.
Those are the only things she does.

Says the guy who very clearly hasn't watched any of her stuff and has very obviously only watched the "rebuttals" of angry men on youtube who don't know the meanings of "concise" "editing" or "production value".

Yes, most characters in popularized fiction are going to be white heterosexual males. We know this. We've known this for a while. So why the fuck does she think it needs a massive video series explaining that it's happening, when, you know.

That's not even what the series is about. It focuses on the roles women play in video games. Also, the series was initially going to be relatively short (I think the original kickstarter was for 6 videos), but since she surpassed her goals she's adding more.

We can see it happening.

Where "we" are people who refuse to see.

[Dakini]

Says the guy who very clearly hasn't watched any of her stuff and has very obviously only watched the "rebuttals" of angry men on youtube who don't know the meanings of "concise" "editing" or "production value".


That's not even what the series is about. It focuses on the roles women play in video games. Also, the series was initially going to be relatively short (I think the original kickstarter was for 6 videos), but since she surpassed her goals she's adding more.


Where "we" are people who refuse to see.

I've seen her videos. I don't care about the production values. I care about the content.

I somehow don't believe it. Also, you haven't responded to my other post. I assume because you can't.

That is what the series is about, precisely because of that problem in media. Females will always be relegated to secondary character status, because of that pervasive problem. The nature of that secondary character status doesn't seem at all relevant.

And that's where you're wrong. Just because you don't think it's interesting, doesn't mean that nobody does and just because you think she got all of her money because of the bullying... well, considering that she was fully funded for the initial project before the bullying began... you're kinda entirely wrong.

Considering the budget for these videos is somewhere between nothing and the price of a napkin, i'm guessing we can expect a trillion videos.

Uh... no. Considering that her videos are first of all, not just her sitting in front of her laptop webcam staring down at the screen and showing off her nosehairs, but that they actually have graphics, they probably actually do cost money to produce. The production costs are probably comparable to the crash course/sci show/etc videos put out by the vlogbrothers but they likely take longer to produce so in the sense of time being money (she's actually a trained professional and such)...

Who's refusing to see it?

You. I thought that was obvious.

[Dakini]

When all she's doing is stating the obvious, OR getting figures wrong, it becomes incredibly difficult to take her seriously.
Those are the only things she does.
Yes, most characters in popularized fiction are going to be white heterosexual males. We know this. We've known this for a while. So why the fuck does she think it needs a massive video series explaining that it's happening, when, you know.
We can see it happening. And what's worse is, she doesn't mention the exceptions like Metroid, so it's not even her listing off the state of the industry.
It's her listing a bunch of examples.
A fucking wikipedia category list has exactly as much content.
Just list off the examples.
Get shit wrong when you do it though, that's important.
And fuck, don't even just list off the examples.
Spend ages and ages explaining the same shit, over and over and over for each game.

Perhaps because most people don't actually know.

Reading this thread makes this fact blatantly obvious.

[Dakini]

I somehow don't believe it. Also, you haven't responded to my other post. I assume because you can't.


And that's where you're wrong.


Uh... no. Considering that her videos are first of all, not just her sitting in front of her laptop webcam staring down at the screen and showing off her nosehairs, but that they actually have graphics, they probably actually do cost money to produce. The production costs are probably comparable to the crash course/sci show/etc videos put out by the vlogbrothers but they likely take longer to produce so in the sense of time being money (she's actually a trained professional and such)...


You. I thought that was obvious.

Didn't respond because it's not worth responding. You didn't address anything.

Neither have you. All you've done is scream "nobody gives a fuck about what this bitch has to say!" over and over. Considering that the post you haven't addressed is where I point out that your claim that she cried over nothing was total horseshit, I understand why you ignored it though. So after this we're done.

How am I wrong?

You missed my addition here:

Just because you don't think it's interesting, doesn't mean that nobody does and just because you think she got all of her money because of the bullying... well, considering that she was fully funded for the initial project before the bullying began... you're kinda entirely wrong.

(source provided earlier... not that you're going to click)

Look, i've worked in media for video editing. I know for a fact that once you buy the equipment (which she must have already had access to), and know how to use it, there are no extra costs. There is no such thing as a "more expensive" graphic. If she's hiring someone ELSE to do the graphics, then yeh. Maybe. But like you said, SHE is the professional here. There should be 0 costs.

She's a professional. She's totally entitled to ask for compensation for her time as well as for the resources to buy the games so she could have a representative sample. Many people are happy to give her the money to do this (and did).

So I'm refusing to see something that i'm emphatically claiming is obvious and everyone knows about? Tell me more.

Nope. If you can't read the thread or be bothered to look around and see things that are right in front of your face then I'm not going to waste more of my time on you.

[Dakini]

Reading this thread makes this fact blatantly obvious.

The only thing I'll agree with their rant on the video is that she does constantly repeat the same information, over and over and over. I only got about five minutes in because I was tired of being explained to what damsel in distress was about and that there was violence. I know! You are already told me four times before!

Sometimes she's repetitive because the storylines involving women in the videogames are repetitive.

In the one I just linked (part II to the damsel in distress) she was describing the plots to a few games and they went like this:
"In <insert game name here> your wife is brutally murdered and you have to save your daughter" (cutscene plays in the background)
"In <insert another game name here> your wife is brutally murdered and you have to save your daughter" (a new cutscene plays in the background)
"In <insert yet another game name here> your wife is brutally murdered and you have to save your daughter" (yet another cutscene plays in the background)

There were more than three repetitions, but it sort of hammered home the point that roles for women in video games can be quite... limiting.

[Dakini]

That's too many video games. Where does she get the money for that?

People paid her on kickstarter to buy them.


And then more people gave her more money after she was harassed all over the internet so she was able to buy even more video games!