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Sexism in video games.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:08 pm

Oil exporting People wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Anyone else noticing the ad here that says "male gamers only"? With a picture of a sexually objectified woman of course.

Anyway, me, I'm not much of a gamer. Doesn't interest me. But you'd have to be blind not to notice that video games tend toward the sexist side. I've also frequently heard tell that gamer culture is highly misogynistic, from more than a couple of women gamers.

So. Would anyone like to share their opinions or thoughts on this?


Here's a simple answer to this problem: Don't play video games then.

Something that's always annoyed me about people who espouse these sorts of opinions is their utter disregard for opposing viewpoints. It is completely hypocritical to demand "equality", while demanding at the same time someone change their opinion to match their own. It runs contrary to freedom of speech and basic democratic principles. If Female gamers are so offended, they should form their own communities in the gaming world and leave the rest alone. How is it right for a tiny percentage in a group to get special treatment at the expense of the vast majority? It's not, and it is essentially a tyranny of the minority in this case.

Finally, I happen to know several Female gamers myself. From conversations I've had with them, they could honestly careless what gets said. In fact, I've often had them to be just as "misogynistic" as the guys. I really only think the women complaining about this issue are those who just lack a personal life, and decide to invest their time by being totalitarian on completely mundane matters.

You should read the thread, every single idiotic thing you say here has more or less already been addressed.

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:12 pm

Zweite Alaje wrote:People seriously think to much into games, play the fucking games and have fun. Sheesh. All this, "OH MAH GERD TEH PAYRIARKY!1!!11" is quite annoying.

Almost as a annoying as all the "JUST SHUT UP AND DEAL WITH IT YOU UPPITY BITCHES!"

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:24 pm

Its all well and good that Bethesda isn't sexist. Now that they've achieved their goal of being progressive, they should focus on making games that aren't embarrassingly buggy and mind meltingly boring.

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:28 pm

Reploid Productions wrote:
Neo Art wrote:
Oh I have several points I've already made, on many occassions. You confuse "not having a point to make" with "not having a point I'm capable of understanding". Which, you know, isn't all that surprising really. It's kinda like showing the Mona Lisa to a blind dude. The painting is there. You just can't see it.

My argument is, and always has been, quite clear. You just seem to lack the capacity to understand it.

There was a time on this forum, long ago, that your profound inability to understand even the most basic of social considerations would have been routinely laughed at. Now, you actually seem above average.

The mistake you've made however is assuming that standing taller than most makes you actually tall. It's a flaw of perception. Reality is, you're just the largest guppy in a very small pond.

But don't let that confuse you into thinking you're particularly GOOD at this. I still think "pathetic" sums up your argumentative capacities quite well.


Neo, you really ought to know better than this. Really. That entire post is nothing but a wordy attack on the poster, not their response to your argument or perceived lack of one. Your entire post could be summed up as "tl;dr - You are stupid."

Which is flaming. The rules even make explicit reference to this type of thing being unacceptable.
NERVUN wrote:Flame: Expressing anger at someone in uncouth ways with OOC (out-of-character) comments (i.e. swearing, being obnoxious, threatening etc). It does to watch what you post IC (in-character) as well unless the other posters know you're not serious. You do not need to curse to be a flamer. Erudite slams while maintaining a veneer of politeness can also be considered flaming. Flaming in the forums should be reported in the Moderation forum, in the game itself, through Getting Help Page.


And looking at your recent history, I don't believe that a mere warning is going to suffice this time around. Neo Art, I am extremely disappoint that I have to hand you a *** 3-day ban for flaming ***.

Image
~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

I am sure that a few pages of scathing and accurate criticism in no way factored into this decision. That would mean moderation is petty and vindictive, and we all know thats not the case :roll:

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:29 pm

Zweite Alaje wrote:
Dakini wrote:Yeah, fuck everyone who doesn't set their brain on autopilot constantly. :roll:

Videogames...this is serious business goiz. :roll:

Are we going to pretend like media does not influence society?

Because that would be really silly.

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:30 am

Zweite Alaje wrote:Uh, right. FYI, I play almost exclusively with females characters in games I play.


This is your fucking argument?

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:36 am

Ifreann wrote: she must be some kind of cock-juggling thunder-cunt.

Did...did you just quote the third Blade movie?

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:39 am

Zweite Alaje wrote:
Choronzon wrote:
This is your fucking argument?

I like how that's the only part of that post you responded to. I'm saying that as someone that plays as pretty much only females in games, I pay attention to their characterizations. I'm not saying that I don't think some of the design choices aren't weird or unrealistic, I just don't think it is a serious issue or an issue at all in fact. They are games they aren't meant to be a carbon copy of RL.

"As a male who plays female characters I feel I am in an authoritative position to comment on whether or not a game is sexist."

Yeah....thats not really any better,

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:08 am

Ifreann wrote:
Choronzon wrote:Did...did you just quote the third Blade movie?

Yes. Yes I did.

....Why?

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:09 am

Zweite Alaje wrote:
Choronzon wrote:"As a male who plays female characters I feel I am in an authoritative position to comment on whether or not a game is sexist."

Yeah....thats not really any better,


Ok and "I'm a wimmiz"

Certainly they are in a better position, because as the people who actually have to deal with institutionalized sexism on a daily basis they're more inclined to see it.
or "I'm a liberul" makes you people authorities on what is sexist, amirite?

Yes, you are.
Also, I'm not a male.

Since when?
Last edited by Choronzon on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:21 am

Zweite Alaje wrote:
Perceived sexism in a game is about the most harmless thing one can blow out of proportion.

You keep saying that, but have yet to really demonstrate that point beyond putting your fingers in your hears and going "NU UH! NU UH! NU UH!"
For a while now....perhaps always?

I notice your demographic shifts whenever it suits your purpose.

Just an observation.
Last edited by Choronzon on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:29 am

Zweite Alaje wrote:
Choronzon wrote:You keep saying that, but have yet to really demonstrate that point beyond putting your fingers in your hears and going "NU UH! NU UH! NU UH!"

I notice your demographic shifts whenever it suits your purpose.

Just an observation.

How? Why does a game matter so much? These aren't real people. All we have is a bunch of people yelling "STAHP HAVIN FUN DAT'S SEKSIST!!!1!1"

Because media influences society.

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:33 am

Zweite Alaje wrote:
Choronzon wrote:Because media influences society.

Not really.

So you think your special little opinion contradicts mountains of sociological research?

Interesting.

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:34 am

Sommorragh wrote:
Choronzon wrote:Because media influences society.


How about the economic ramifications?

I'm unsure what you mean?

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:07 am

Edlichbury wrote:So Alaje is just going to ignore the links to examples of real life being affected by the media? Wonderful, here I thought a modicum of intellectual honesty might be followed.

....really?

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:07 am

Des-Bal wrote:There's absolutely sexism in video games but I don't think that's an example. That's more like pandering,

Of course. The real victims of sexism in videogames are obviously the menz.
Last edited by Choronzon on Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:17 am

Forsher wrote:
Choronzon wrote:Of course. The real victims of sexism in videogames are obviously the menz.


There's a very real argument to make that the "lol, boobies" (good phrase NTTP) approach has negative affects for males as well.

Like fucking clockwork.
I should know, my first post here and a number of subsequent posts here have talked about this dimension to the problem.

I'm an authority on it, I talked about it a few times!

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:23 am

Nailed to the Perch wrote:
Choronzon wrote:Like fucking clockwork.


I mean, in fairness, I'll absolutely agree that having the majority of modern media be misogynistic is bad for society as a whole. It's just really important not to pretend that there is anything resembling parity here. I think NA has, in the past, used the analogy of women-as-a-whole being shot and some of the blood spatter getting on men and ruining their collective shirt. Men would absolutely be better off if their shirt wasn't ruined, but that's not really the main reason why we should try to stop shooting women.

Of course. But we can't have any discussion around here on how X is really harmful to women without the MRA Brigade coming in and yelling "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MENZ MENZ MENZ!"

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:49 am

Nailed to the Perch wrote:
Choronzon wrote:Of course. But we can't have any discussion around here on how X is really harmful to women without the MRA Brigade coming in and yelling "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MENZ MENZ MENZ!"


I'm just glad the King of the NSG MRAs hasn't shown up yet to explain how Ivy from Soul Calibur is guilty of "boob fraud" for not jumping off the screen and fucking him or something.

"I played through the WHOLE GAME as her character and she didn't even fuck me at the end! Why that...that is just as bad as rape!"

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:50 am

Zweite Alaje wrote:
Edlichbury wrote:So Alaje is just going to ignore the links to examples of real life being affected by the media? Wonderful, here I thought a modicum of intellectual honesty might be followed.

Nothing you linked proves anything, that not really influencing soceity's perceptions of things more like some obsessed fans bringing a fictional object into ecosyence. It'sore a fad instead of a long lasting civilization changing effect.

Didn't read em or didn't understand.

You pick.

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:52 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Edlichbury wrote:This whole "But the men are just being noble and saving the women" delusion was addressed somewhere in the first twenty pages or so.


Not reading twenty pages or so as background.

Rescue is one of the fundamental acts of heroism.
Loss of a significant other is a basic fear of anyone in a serious relationship.
Having the character rescue someone is as basic a plot as any and having the object of rescue be the wife/girlfriend/it's complicated of the hero adds a level of drama and makes it personal.


It's structurally sound. It's become wrapped up with sexism and it's overplayed but it's a fundamentally good story. Genders of the parties involved really shouldn't matter.

Because there is nothing sexist about having your female characters all be dainty damsels in distress who need to be rescued by a big strong man nope nope nope.

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Choronzon
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Postby Choronzon » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:04 am

Guys, Alaje is a troll.

Seriously, he's trolling. He is a troll. Stop feeding him.

How many times do you need to repeat the same thing over and over before you realize that the person you're talking to isn't listening and isn't actually interested in discussion? Seriously, for the past several dozen or so pages its been people providing reasons, arguments, and evidence and Alaje going "NU-UH!"

Thats a fucking troll.
Last edited by Choronzon on Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Condunum
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Postby Condunum » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:36 am

Rawrckia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:No, someone would have to be human.


"I cannot think or make decisions for myself"

Cute respose.
Aka the "I don't know anything about behavior." Response
password scrambled

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Confido
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Postby Confido » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:42 pm

Most games, to steal a line from Nerd³ on Youtube, have Women as Women First, Then a Person, their main factor is that their Female. To also steal another thing from him, They're just Boobs of a Stick. Names some female characters that YOU PLAY AS that aren't just boobs on a stick, and actually have a Developed Character, and actually are People first then a Women. I can only think of 1, Faith from Mirrors Edge

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Conkerials
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Postby Conkerials » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:14 pm

I noticed those... Strange ads. "Roman Orgy!" "Male Gamers Only!"... But Europa Universalis 4 is something to really look at. I love Paradox, and I have seen the trailers and Dev. Logs. I've been seeing the ads around the site, I probably won't pre-order it. I might wait a bit, but I have EU3 and its amazing.... But... Yeah... NO SEXISM IN GAMES. WE NEED MORE FEMALE GAMERS. And go PC gamers!
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