Sexism in video games.

[The Steel Magnolia]

So we now have three different posters attesting that "hurt feelings" cause real harm.

Will Aurora please concede their point now?

Hurt feelings =/= PTSD.

How about depression? Or anxiety? Or suicidal tendencies? How about being called "fag" until you feel the need to smash a razor and take a warm bath?

Or are those just 'hurt feelings' too?

[The Steel Magnolia]

Um, yes?

That's why we protest against things, that's why religious symbols are protested against.

What, precisely, do you think we're doing? We're protesting against things we think should be changed, and giving reasons as to why. "This offends me" is a perfectly valid reason.

No, it isn't.
The reason religious symbols should be protested against is that they peddle bullshit. That they do so is offensive, but that is secondary to the major concern.

That's a reason you can give to protest against religious symbols. You can also say "it offends me."

Since we are, by and large, decent people, avoiding things that offend large portions of the population is generally a good thing.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Yes, how dare people who have suffered severe emotional trauma have the audacity to hear callous jokes! Obviously, all people who have suffered trauma should be force to live in isolation to fit your worldview.

Not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is we, the public, have no responsibility to constantly live on edge, for fear of setting someone off. Nor should it be.

Sure. But we have every right to tell the public "Hi! This is harmful to a lot of people!" when you do.

[The Steel Magnolia]

How about depression? Or anxiety? Or suicidal tendencies? How about being called "fag" until you feel the need to smash a razor and take a warm bath?

Or are those just 'hurt feelings' too?

Depression isn't hurt feelings. It's a chemical imbalance causing irrational thought patterns, with a tendency toward catastrophizing problems, accentuating negative information, and dismissing positive information.

ahahahahaha.

Right. Of course. Bullying and emotional abuse in no way contributes to depression.

How could I forget.

[The Steel Magnolia]

That's a reason you can give to protest against religious symbols. You can also say "it offends me."

Since we are, by and large, decent people, avoiding things that offend large portions of the population is generally a good thing.

And the equally large portion that demands the symbol stay where it is who would be grossly offended by it's absence?

The person in charge makes a decision accordingly.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Is anybody else fucking appalled by the childish way certain posters are dismissing trauma as mere "hurt feelings"?

Thats rhetorical. I know anyone intelligent on this board is just as appalled as I am. Not surprised, but appalled.

That's why i've been busy stealing absolut from the apartment I'm saying in for the past few hours.

v. useful.

[The Steel Magnolia]

The person in charge makes a decision accordingly.

So it's all completely fucking useless, since anyone can claim to be offended about anything.

You're welcome to think that.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Yeah, people who are harassed bullied never commit suicide either.

Or develop terrible addictions as a way to cope.

Is anybody else fucking appalled by the childish way certain posters are dismissing trauma as mere "hurt feelings"?

Thats rhetorical. I know anyone intelligent on this board is just as appalled as I am. Not surprised, but appalled.

That's why i've been busy stealing absolut from the apartment I'm saying in for the past few hours.

v. useful.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Well, it's obvious we're not talking about sexism in video games anymore. I feel kind of awkward right now...

Oh, no, we are.

But apparently, since it's not real, it doesn't matter.

[The Steel Magnolia]

"I'm unaware of evidence to that effect. do you have any?"

VS

"So we're allowed to just use our ownopinion actual events that happened to us as evidence?"

You're not getting any better at this.

Fixed.

Oh no. We're obviously lying about personal trauma just to get attention win an argument on a fucking internet forum.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Fixed.

The thing is, people claim to have all sorts of shit on the internet.
aspergers is the most common.
So how the hell am I supposed to take your word for it?

that lying bitch was probably asking for it anyway.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Again, i'm not saying you are a liar. I'm just saying I cannot take your word for it.

I also really want to emptyquote this.

[The Steel Magnolia]

The thing is, people claim to have all sorts of shit on the internet.
aspergers is the most common.
So how the hell am I supposed to take your word for it?
Again, i'm not saying you are a liar. I'm just saying I cannot take your word for it.

99% of people who actually have it don't bandy it about. 99% of people who bandy it about don't have it.

of course honey.

because god forbid we talk about our experiences.

You know, I'm sure, if I cared enough about what you think, I could take a picture (I'd have to be offsite of course, it'd by necessity by nsfw). You could see the scars I have alllll over my chest.

But I don't, it'd be horribly triggering, and there's an easy solution to this.

Believing people when they talk about their own lives. It's shocking, I know!

I mean there's the obviously fake bullshit stuff... but people don't usually lie about mental illnesses outside of tumblr oppression olympic bullshit and that's neither here nor there. And when they do, it's very, very easy to tell.

[The Steel Magnolia]

It isn't all the fault of the mods. Really, it's more the fault of the world. People tend to think that anyone who disagrees with them is deluded/lying/evil. It's the new trend in politics.

Yeah, really, it is. They're the ones who set the tone and temperament. They're the ones who decide the level of discourse allowed. They're the ones who set the bar.

This is where they've set it.

This shit show is entirely on them.

It's not even the level of discourse. I mean, I know when I see quality arguments, I know when I see nuanced views, I know when I see shameless partisanship.

It's not even about having good, solid discussion. It's about not acting like a child. I've made maybe a dozen really, really good posts in my time here. I'm no ASB, I don't actually know all that much; but the thing is, I know I don't actually know all that much.

I like to think that I hold views with a little bit of nuance. I like to think that I can not just look at 'objectiveness' but also context and experience. I like to think I can see things realistically, without falling prey to ridiculous extremism.

The problem isn't the level of discourse, the problem isn't that we're not churning out page long effortposts day in day out. The problem is that people are so fucking arrogant, so fucking confident, so fucking sure that they're right even when by any reasonable spectrum they're flat out wrong.

[The Steel Magnolia]

The resources being put into developing video games in 2013 is:
a)more than in 1983.
b)less than in 1983.
c)exactly the same as in 1983.
Care to take a guess? I can't say I know for sure myself, but I know what I'd put my money on.

It sounds a lot like someone has just had an introduction to basic economic (or perhaps I mean microeconomic) concepts and hasn't been taught well enough to recognise how they actually apply to real life situations.

I must point out that their application of the ideas in their response to this post of yours is much better.

I blame feminism and the breakdown of traditional gender roles, in a word. Progress. The idea that women should be protected (ie: they should not be attacked) and honoured has been discarded. Of course, you should also look at the damage done to men. In a way the treatment of men in video games is no better. Both with men as users, but also how male characters behave and are portrayed. If men in video games are hyper mascilinized, what are they saying about what men are suppose to do?

Sure Mario teaches men, that women are passive and that men need to save them, but it also teaches men that they should save women and that they have value. Much worse is the more forward thinking games that teach that people, especially women, exist to be used and that men are basically pigs. Of course the whole internet anonymity plus free speech brings out the whole, the meanest person is cool and insulting people makes you clever mentality.

Because in the Post-Modern society, everyone makes their own rules, and applauded for breaking the old ones, such crudity is bountiful.

I disagree with you.

The "women have worth" thing is all well and good but the primary reason why Rapunzel was rescued was because the prince fell in love with her. That's not necessarily any good kind of worth and I imagine that in most cases the stuff you're talking about slots in the same way.

It's not feminism's fault and nor is it the breakdown of traditional gender roles' fault in any way other than as a result we're seeing just how wrong these things are now. I'll be frank, I seriously doubt that 1700's Forsher is going to agree with 21st Century Forsher over this stuff.

Oh, and as I am sure the vast majority of this thread can tell you I'm only reasonably sane.

I'm trying to get work done in another tab.

My brother's not quite like that, but he does live on Mountain Dew so we laughed. I mean to say he's not on ritalin and is less into swearing but otherwise, it's him.

There's no way you need one hour, 12 minutes and 17 seconds to "debunk" a video that's what, 20 minutes long? This guy doesn't know how to get to the point. That's his problem.

I used to have this problem. It was partly related to the fact I had little to no idea about what exactly I was meant to be doing and somewhat explained by the medium of presentation, but I turned a response to Ozymandias into an eight page dialogue. Clever.

Anyway, I hate videos. Short ones can be okay and for some reason I watched most to all of some of the fire-alarm videos, but as a whole it's a terrible medium... I'd much rather read because a) I can go at my pace and b) because it's easier to respond to. Transcripts make everything cool though.

I see Starcraft, on behalf of my friend, she has good taste.

The fact that he hasn't made everyone else's ignore list is actually quite astonishing. I mean, perhaps to some its amusing or cute, but I got sick of his shit some time ago.

What I don't understand is why you don't just recycle old posts against old points.

Hey! Reasonably sane is a compliment!

[The Steel Magnolia]

"....what on earth does that have to do with anything? In response to "You can consume 'sexist' entertainment and still not be an asshat to/objectify/discriminate against women," I discussed whether you can consume sexist entertainment and not be sexist. I was unaware that I was meant to confine myself exclusively to using examples from the specific sub-genre of sexist entertainment you preferred for no reason whatsoever."

I meant in posts previously; I should've articulated better. You're right on that account.


"Again, the post you are responding to is about "sexist entertainment." Not "specific origin points and sub-genres of sexist entertainment."

Here, I was talking about the fact that different cultures have different cultural norms in regards to women. But I digress....


"...charming. Can you maybe try actual arguments instead of inane playground slurs?"

See above.

Also, I'll say what ever I please. Freedom of speech. If I want to drive you into the ground, and make you feal like shit, I'm within power to do so,

You and most of the anti-sexism crew seem intent on grouping all games under the label sexist, despite each of them having their own nuances.

"Nope! Just the sexist games. I am perfectly happy to address the specific nuances of games in a thread devoted to the specific nuances of games. THIS thread is about sexism in video games (it's right there in the title!), so, shockingly, the aspect of games I've been addressing is the sexism in them. Crazy, I know."

Got me there.


"Thank you! I am perfectly happy to generalize that defending sexism is sexist! Hell, I'll throw in some bonuses for you:

Defending racism is racist!
Defending homophobia is homophobic!
Defending transphobia is transphobic!"

Look at all these wacky generalizations"

Def Homophobe/Transphobe/Racist: He's exercising his right to free speech. He made an argument based on his previous expereinces and emotions, doesn't mean you can't hit him.

Quote tags are your friend.

Also yes, that's entirely right. If someone is being a bigot, I can tell them to shut up and I gleefully will.

[The Steel Magnolia]

So Alaje is just going to ignore the links to examples of real life being affected by the media? Wonderful, here I thought a modicum of intellectual honesty might be followed.

Teach me your optimistic ways.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Don't ask me, I had to search up what MRA stood for.

My university is the epicentre of Canada's MRA movement, I think, so I've become uncomfortably familiar with the bloody thing.

I'm going to UfT next year (Trin represent!), and I assure you, I'll be an ardent crusader against them.

Mainly though I just won't be friends with them.

[The Steel Magnolia]

I'm going to UfT next year (Trin represent!), and I assure you, I'll be an ardent crusader against them.

Mainly though I just won't be friends with them.

TRIN. TRIN. YOUR PARENTS GOT YOU IN.

That's all we have on you.

Ahahaha.

That, or the experience I have working for elections (Just a pity I didn't get to put my world justice forum work in to my application).

Lord knows my grades weren't good enough.

[The Steel Magnolia]

I'm going to UfT next year (Trin represent!), and I assure you, I'll be an ardent crusader against them.

Mainly though I just won't be friends with them.

Probably for the best. I mean, if you were friends with them, you would probably friendzone them like the evil misandrist you are. *nod*

Oh, no. See, I'm transgender, and that means I'm making them gay if they're attracted to me, and I'm clearly just as bad as a rapist if I don't brand a T on my forehead all the time.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Oh, no. See, I'm transgender, and that means I'm making them gay if they're attracted to me, and I'm clearly just as bad as a rapist if I don't brand a T on my forehead all the time.

If you're ever seen making out with another chick you may well be worse than Hitler.

I feel like saying "I'll make sure to tell me various friends with benefits" would undercut my point somewhat.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Such equality is pretty impossible while maintaining a country that's still a pleasure to live in. Look how "well" it went in Sweden, that place looks awful now.

Quite a lot of us don't actually take pleasure in treating other people like crap. I'm sorry that you do. Tough luck.

(Also, the idea that Sweden, consistently given one of the top rankings in the world in quality of life, is "awful" is pretty hilarious.)

i-i-i can't commit hate crimes. the tragedy :C.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Oh?

Yes. Damn their hopes for equality. They just want to oppress us Menz. Look at all the rights they have already taken from me and my brothers, I can't even give my wife a good beating anymore.

Can't even rape her if she refuses sex.

What a world.

Bitches, am I right?

I just love your strawmen.
Because I don't like you feminist that must mean I support rape and domestic abuse. I'm a terrible human being for getting tired of having to hear some fat old men-hating lesbians complaining.

Brilliant. Fucking brilliant.

[The Tectonic Plates]

Some games are sexist, some games aren't sexist.
Some gamers aren't sexist, the gaming community does have a big tint of sexism, homophobia too, I say this as a heterosexual male, the gaming community and therefore what the game companies respond to, has a large sexist and homophobic culture.

[The Truth and Light]

Do video games tend to be sexist? Does the Pope shit in the woods?