Sexism in video games.

[The Parkus Empire]

The only problem though is if the society, such as in Dragon Age, is based off of medieval sexist times, therefore meaning few female soldiers. Making a game like that isn't inherently sexist, but I'm some people think it is claiming that since it is fantasy, the society should be automatically egalitarian when it comes to gender despite the sexism of the age.(Racial issues however, are perfectly fine to present as long as they are not real races).

I think if you're fulfilling fantasies about ghosts and goblins and elves and dragons, which have no basis in reality whatsoever, then egalitarianism isn't really such a huge "fantasy" to expect.

[The Parkus Empire]

It's "unrealistic" for practical reasons in any universe with medieval technology to not be pretty heavy on males being soldiers.
the only way around this is to either make pregnancy a lot faster, have storks, or have males be pregnant.
It is however, a very small suspension of disbelief to ignore this "unrealism"
(Note: fantasy worlds, while unrealistic, are usually expected to be at least internally consistent. The notion of say, Tribe A (male soldiers, female breeders) losing a prolonged war to Egalitarian tribe B is frankly ridiculous if both tribes are roughly equivalent in technology and strength. There is a very good reason that Males were the vast majority of soldiers, and why Matriarchal socities by and large were wiped out by Patriarchal ones.)

You're saying there couldn't be many female soldiers because most women would be too busy being pregnant?

[The Parkus Empire]

I think if you're fulfilling fantasies about ghosts and goblins and elves and dragons, which have no basis in reality whatsoever, then egalitarianism isn't really such a huge "fantasy" to expect.

Except it is, when you are, as many games do, modeling the game off of medieval society. Goblins and trolls and whatnot are just magical creatures who have no bearing on the society other than posing a threat.

To clarify, I am not opposed to these games being egalitarian, as some societies would in fact develop to be so, as not everyone would be sexist like the middle ages, but I do not see why such opinions would vanish in these fake scenarios unless people developed in a radically different path or way of thinking and became remarkably progressive for their time.

Is Christianity the dominant religion in the game?

[The Parkus Empire]

Is Christianity the dominant religion in the game?

No? But many religions throughout society have been patriarchal, and even those that weren't were often times till worshipped by patriarchal societies. Just because they do not worship Christianity or the Abrahamic religions, they do not magically become egalitarian.

I think if you're going to make up fantasy religions and fantasy creatures and fantasy societies to populate a fantasy world full of fantasy magic on a fantasy continent that doesn't exist, then it seems stupid to say, "I drew inspiration for swords and armor from back in the day, so egalitarianism would be unrealistic". The whole fucking world isn't just unrealistic, it's pure fantasy, probably more inspired by J.R.R. Tolkien than history.

[The Parkus Empire]

He's saying that back then population was a serious issue, and most societies theorized that in the long-term, the women had to be protected in order to ensure the long-time survival of the population as they were the ones who gave birth to children. If a society took a population hit, it was usually a disaster because they weren't that big(however, in a crisis, societies did use female soldiers when the male population was insignificant).

This is of course a sexist opinion but not entirely untrue as societies needed as many people aw possible back then, therefore it did make some sense to protect the women rather than risk them dying on the filed of battle. This view steadily, but not completely, disappeared as there was no longer that much of a population crises.

This is absurd. Population was a serious issue because of pestilence and starvation, you don't see much of that in fantasies. People are actually hygienic and change their clothes in fantasies, they wash their hair.

[The Parkus Empire]

Is Christianity the dominant religion in the game?

Yeah, because none of the Pre-Christian religions were sexist. But seriously, I hate how people bash Christianity. B.C. wasn't some magical fantasy time where men and women were equal. It was just as sexist as Christianity, if not more so.

No, I'm pointing out that if you're going to invent a brand new society, and you're taking away something as fundamental as religion, then taking away patriarchy isn't crazy.

[The Parkus Empire]

You see the problem though is unless they are not humans and are some other ace that evolved in a radically different way then humans did, they are still going to be affected by human phycology and reasoning.

Please elaborate on what the fuck you mean by this.

[The Parkus Empire]

No, but you do have dragons and monsters.

So? Are they an epidemic? They tend to live in caves guarding treasure.

Not implying it. flat out stating it. And commoners did it too. It's pretty much what happened.

source

[The Parkus Empire]

TYes, that is why to preserve the amount of women, they decided that instead of having them die from pestilence, starvation, AND war, they would only die of the previous two(along with every other way a civilian could die) while the men who could not bear children, would die of all three. This is also what gave them the military might to enforce a patriarchal society since they were given the weapons.

Oh and your comment about hygiene is ridiculous. Every fantasy worth its salt does not make its people magically clean, and topic such disease and starvation are incredibly common. Just because movies who use clean actors as they are trying to market to everyone possible does not mean that such fantasy societies did not suffer from the same ailments every society of their technological level suffered from. Even Rome suffered from pestilence and disease, and their level of hygiene did not even develop again until after the renaissance.

Women in video games look like they gots clean hair to me.

[The Parkus Empire]

No, I'm pointing out that if you're going to invent a brand new society, and you're taking away something as fundamental as religion, then taking away patriarchy isn't crazy.

Most s still have religion. The most I have ever seen in any fantasy that resembled atheism were a few cynical individuals who were unsure of things and even then, they usually only disclosed this with friends.

But there is no reason for the religion to be patriarchal, unless you're claiming that religion must be inherently.

[The Parkus Empire]

Please elaborate on what the fuck you mean by this.

They are still going to follow the same line of reasoning primitive societies used that lead to patriarchal societies, unless significant differences occurred in their development, which if the author is skilled, can describe in great detail. That would create an egalitarian society while also giving a reason for why it exists.

"Significant differences?" I'll say. It's a whole different world, it might as well be a different planet. It doesn't even exist in a physical place or on earth. There is no reason for patriarchy to be the default of human development, since humanity has a completely made up history here.

[The Parkus Empire]

But there is no reason for the religion to be patriarchal, unless you're claiming that religion must be inherently.

For a religion to spread?
Pretty much yes, it has to be patriarchal. Since people have an infuriating tendency to believe what benefits them the most, the notion of a patriarchal religion appeals a lot to the soldiers in medieval societies.
How did religion spread at those times?

You're talking about Abrahamic religions. Most fantasy religions are more akin to paganism.

[The Parkus Empire]

"Significant differences?" I'll say. It's a whole different world, it might as well be a different planet. It doesn't even exist in a physical place or on earth. There is no reason for patriarchy to be the default of human development, since humanity has a completely made up history here.

But it would have to evolve naturally. How do you propose an egalitarian society evolve naturally. (Other than by bringing it to our current level of development and removing population crisis as an issue.)

I find this whole population crisis argument difficult to swallow, especially since Ancient Rome dealt with overcrowding and use of birth control.

[The Parkus Empire]

You're talking about Abrahamic religions. Most fantasy religions are more akin to paganism.

How do you know i'm talking about Arahamic religions?

Which religion are you talking about?

[The Parkus Empire]

I find this whole population crisis argument difficult to swallow, especially since Ancient Rome dealt with overcrowding and use of birth control.

By then the types of crises we're talking about are no longer a factor. At that point, you're dealing with simple tradition.
It's not even necessary that anyone be particularly aware why the tradition came about or why it works, since humans are typically very big on tradition, or were until recent decades.

So...at what point are we talking about this "population crisis" that every society much face in its evolution?

[The Parkus Empire]

Which religion are you talking about?

Any religion.
You aren't going to find a major religion at any point in history not spread by the sword directly, or by the sword indirectly. Zoroastrianism as an example. Conquered persons weren't forced to convert, but only Zoroastrianism had state funding.
How did the state expand?

Caesar and Alexander forced occupied countries to convert?

[The Parkus Empire]

I find this whole population crisis argument difficult to swallow, especially since Ancient Rome dealt with overcrowding and use of birth control.

Ancient Rome wasn't medieval Europe which seems to be what most fantasy bases itself on.

It hardly bases itself on medieval Europe. It appropriates the armor (and restyles it however) and the castles and the crowns, that's about it.

[The Parkus Empire]

It hardly bases itself on medieval Europe. It appropriates the armor (and restyles it however) and the castles and the crowns, that's about it.

It also incorporates the feudal system, the same morality and reasoning, and often times the same tradition and historical basis.

A morality of women-should-dress-like-strippers?

[The Parkus Empire]

A morality of women-should-dress-like-strippers?

No? That's usually involved because of stupid sexualization the developers put in place to attract the more douchebag elements of the gaming community and as eye candy.

The morality I'm talking about is strict adherence to tradition and religious edicts.

Except Christianity doesn't exist, so religion is out. Tradition is completely made up.

[The Parkus Empire]

1. Legit complaint. Though, remember, games are meant to appeal to who? Teenage boys. Horny teenage boys.

Exactly. And why the fuck is that? And why do women have to have cartoonish proportions to be sexy? Why can't being a person be sexy?

[The Parkus Empire]

Exactly. And why the fuck is that? And why do women have to have cartoonish proportions to be sexy? Why can't being a person be sexy?

Because Teenage Boys are a large and easy market to sell to. Convince society that everyone is equally sexy and then complain.

Teenage boys don't have a large disposable income.

Conceptions of what's sexy are taught by the media.

[The Parkus Empire]

Exactly. And why the fuck is that? And why do women have to have cartoonish proportions to be sexy? Why can't being a person be sexy?

I remember having a discussion with one of my friends about the new Tomb Raider that was something to that effect. We both had gotten it because we were excited that Lara Croft was being portrayed as something other than an oversexualized pair of talking tits.

She is? In the new one? This is intriguing.

[The Parkus Empire]

Exactly. And why the fuck is that? And why do women have to have cartoonish proportions to be sexy? Why can't being a person be sexy?

But you don't understand huge tits (like double H at the least, man) are perfectly normal and sustainable while in hard combat situations, man.

Like I mean girls have totally got to chip a nail every now and then, right?

Portraying them in any other way just wouldn't be sexy by society's standard.

[The Parkus Empire]

Teenage boys don't have a large disposable income.

Conceptions of what's sexy are taught by the media.

They have jobs and parents. Add in the fact that they generally have very few expenses most of their income is disposable.

It is not the objective or the duty of the media to promote an egalitarian society. They pander to whoever has money and they shill whatever they'll buy.

Unlike teenage girls.

No, they make up shit and sell it. Violence, sexism, Nike, whatever the fuck they want. They can sell shitty shoes for a fuckload, and these shoes sell because the media indoctrinates and inundates society with fucked up associations, through rap, general music, TV, video games, billboards, film, porn, magazines, newspapers, or whatever the fuck. Cosmo did not pander to the common ideal, it invented a common ideal.

[The Parkus Empire]

Unlike teenage girls.

No, they make up shit and sell it. Violence, sexism, Nike, whatever the fuck they want. They can sell shitty shoes for a fuckload, and these shoes sell because the media indoctrinates and inundates society with fucked up associations, through rap, general music, TV, video games, billboards, film, porn, magazines, newspapers, or whatever the fuck. Cosmo did not pander to the common ideal, it invented a common ideal.

There are plenty of things being shilled to teenage girls as well. It's easier to divy them up than to make something that crosses the gender gap.

Sorry I dozed off during your diatribe. Violence sells. Sexism sells. So they sell violence and sexism.

Why, exactly, is it easier to "divy them up" when 45% of gamers are female?

Violence and sexism sell so disproportionately because the media says they're what defines masculinity. It makes you a real man to beat women (or save them, depending: Madonna/whore), to drive a fast car, to kill people, the latter two being what women supposedly find attractive.