Sexism in video games.

[Harrietiania]

Maybe Grand Theft auto,

and a tad Sims 2 and 3

[Harrystan]

Capitalism? People can do what the want with their money. Feminists are ridiculous.

[Hathradic States]

Probably. But I don't give a damn. I still pwn on Reach (and get my ass kicked on Black Ops).

[Hathradic States]

You still play reach and Black Ops?

Reach: Hell yes. I don't like Halo 4 that much, and I wanna make Legend before I leave.

Black Ops: I alternate between it, BOII, and MW3 for my Call of Duty fix. Normally, though, it's Fallout or Skyrim. *loves RPGs*

[Hathradic States]

Reach: Hell yes. I don't like Halo 4 that much, and I wanna make Legend before I leave.

Black Ops: I alternate between it, BOII, and MW3 for my Call of Duty fix. Normally, though, it's Fallout or Skyrim. *loves RPGs*

Why dont you like Halo 4?

This is why:

*is sprinting*

*sees blue guy*

*stops*

*has to wait two seconds to shoot again*

*is dead*

That, and the armor sucks.

[Hathradic States]

Reach: Hell yes. I don't like Halo 4 that much, and I wanna make Legend before I leave.

Black Ops: I alternate between it, BOII, and MW3 for my Call of Duty fix. Normally, though, it's Fallout or Skyrim. *loves RPGs*

black Ops?

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaak.

Zombie mode is fucking awesome.

But, again, I prefer RPGs. Fallout, Skyrim, Neverwinter Nights, etc.

[Hathradic States]

Reasons I hate video games:

1. I want to play as a female. Sometimes this isn't even an option. When it is, each of my boobs are larger than my face. Or there's no musculature. Or boob chest plates (because that's so realistic). Or everything is a skirt. Basically the game screams at me THIS IS WHAT FEMININITY IS. BE FEMININE. BE THIN. BE BOOBS. BE PRETTY. no fuck you, you stupid-heteronormative-gender-role-enforcing-harmful-stereotype-continuing-piece-of-shit. basically everything i hate about the media, being re-hashed and thrown back at me. like no.

2. and that's only when you can choose to be female. many games don't even include the option, and are always narrated by some heteronormative white man. Fuck that. If I wanted that kind of angst, i'd just go read mainstream news. Seriously, give me a black woman's narrative, or someone's who's LGBTAQ or someone who's got a disability, or any kind of diversity PLEASE.

3. and then we get to the actual game play, where you get treated like shit by half of the players, while the other half tries to date you, and then treats you like even more shit when you're either a.) not sexy (in their humble opinion) or b.) you're not single, or the worst of them all: c.) you turn them down. You can get used to the same kind of harassment you get walking down the street, and multiply it by ten-fold.

4. basically this is why i never play games/watch tv/participate in popular culture and this is why. but sexism doesn't exist

1. Legit complaint. Though, remember, games are meant to appeal to who? Teenage boys. Horny teenage boys.

2. Makes sense for a lot of games, especially FPS games. I mean, sure, you can have the black lesbian transwoman who got caught in the firefight between Soap, Capt. Price, Yuri, and the African militia, but that would be boring. However, you neglect a lot of games which let you do that (RPGs, especially Fallout)

3. Only a problem in MMORPGs, really. That's player behavior.

[Hathradic States]

1. Legit complaint. Though, remember, games are meant to appeal to who? Teenage boys. Horny teenage boys.

Exactly. And why the fuck is that? And why do women have to have cartoonish proportions to be sexy? Why can't being a person be sexy?

Because that is what most guys find appealing. Some do, some don't, and, let's face it, it's expected now. Like the fake horse hoof noises via coconut.

[Hathradic States]

Exactly. And why the fuck is that? And why do women have to have cartoonish proportions to be sexy? Why can't being a person be sexy?

But you don't understand huge tits (like double H at the least, man) are perfectly normal and sustainable while in hard combat situations, man.

Like I mean girls have totally got to chip a nail every now and then, right?

Funnily enough, the whole "oversized chest" thing was caused by a mistake with the original Tombraider game. But, as with many creative strokes, it looked good to the designers (also horny guys), so they went with it.

[Hathradic States]

1. Legit complaint. Though, remember, games are meant to appeal to who? Teenage boys. Horny teenage boys.

2. Makes sense for a lot of games, especially FPS games. I mean, sure, you can have the black lesbian transwoman who got caught in the firefight between Soap, Capt. Price, Yuri, and the African militia, but that would be boring. However, you neglect a lot of games which let you do that (RPGs, especially Fallout)

3. Only a problem in MMORPGs, really. That's player behavior.

Really though, it shouldn't be that difficult to diversify. People have shown again and again that they are willing to buy games centered around women, around minorities, et al. And contrary to popular belief, women actually make up almost fifty percent of the gaming market now.

Yeah, but that environment is SO toxic.

Not at all, but, again, with some games it makes sense to have a whitewashed, male cast (every WWII shooter). Others can, and should, diversify (RPGs especially). A good shooter with diversity, that I found, was Halo: Reach. You had the Obligatory White Guy (Carter), A strong woman (Kat), a smart woman (Halsey), Obligatory British Dude With A Mexican name (Jorge), Black Guy (Emile), Asian Man (Jun), and Noble Six could be whatever you wanted him/her to be, because gender was changeable (and had no effect on storyline because, fuck it, they are all Spartans.).

[Hathradic States]

Not at all, but, again, with some games it makes sense to have a whitewashed, male cast (every WWII shooter). Others can, and should, diversify (RPGs especially). A good shooter with diversity, that I found, was Halo: Reach. You had the Obligatory White Guy (Carter), A strong woman (Kat), a smart woman (Halsey), Obligatory British Dude With A Mexican name (Jorge), Black Guy (Emile), Asian Man (Jun), and Noble Six could be whatever you wanted him/her to be, because gender was changeable (and had no effect on storyline because, fuck it, they are all Spartans.).

I don't think it matters to be historically accurate in a videogame, so we're going to have to disagree.

When it is a historical game, yes.

Thus making it my goal to design a gory WWII shooter about the minority soldiers in WWII.

[Hathradic States]

When it is a historical game, yes.

Thus making it my goal to design a gory WWII shooter about the minority soldiers in WWII.

I have the perfect unit to base it around.

That was one of them. The other was the Japanese-American unit in Italy. And the French colonials in the war.

[Helvereos]

What's wrong with being sexy?

[Helvereos]

What's wrong with being sexy?

[Helvereos]

What's wrong with being sexy?

Nothing. Why do women in a particular media have to be all sexy all the time though?

Ratings, my friend, ratings.

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

The hardest game I played along Mario Kart Wii was Cars (based on the Pixar film, but my old computer ended up putting a virus on its disk), and The Sims Histories.

The Sims is so funny when you are Brazilian. There it appears: "casamento/união civil". Someone tells this people that the legal Brazilian name for what we popularly call casamento is união civil. The name for cohabitation that gives you the same rights of marriage but your legal status changing from single to married is união estável. \z

It was funny as everyone in my game ended up being bisexual with each other, even those that are enemies as villains and good guys in the fixed storylines. My favorite were the hunky punk guy (I was always into rude boys, always, 12-13 were not the exception but the confirmation of the rule, dad!), followed by the New Age guy that always ends up getting pregnant of the aliens. But I had to hide each extra-date relationship from the other, polyamory/open relationship was really not so much of a very enjoyed idea in the villages. I wanted to see a threesome in the jacuzzi. =(

[Hornesia]

ArmA 2 is the most sexist game. Women can't pick up guns or the game will crash.

[Hoyteca]

Metroid: Other M was incredibly sexist. Nintendo and Team Ninja took gaming's original heroine (Pacman in drag doesn't count) and practically destroyed what made her great.

Take one of the most feminist-friendly female characters. Make her follow the orders of a man she's technically not obligated to obey. Make said orders both suicidal and stupid. Make her panic when facing a foe she's killed four (five if you count the manga) previous times. Make her forget she can shoot him and have her let him grab her and beat her ass. Now devote a section of her game to her running around in a skin-tight suit with built-in wedge heels. That's right. A woman, who spends most of her games in armor that puts practicality and protection over fashion, is running around a foe-infested space station in high heels with a self-destruct timer counting down.

At least with the bikini-clad lady warriors, they don't stand like a deer in headlights when facing dragon #5. When they find a better sword, they don't wait until General Jackass allows them to equip it. And how many of them went on their missions because they hallucinated crying babies?

[Ifreann]

...Ivy, Drako. We were talking about Ivy.

We could switch to a different character if you like, but not Taki.

I'm pretty cool with addressing Taki, too, seeing as she appears to be dressed almost entirely in body paint. (Come up with an alternate explanation for how the upper half of her costume fits!)

Boob socks. Must be terribly difficult to put on.

[Ifreann]

It's not “victim-blaming,” it's a completely appropriate criticism of a certain part of Western culture.

...apparently, the female part. Or at least the female part that openly acknowledges being female. The nerve of us, not disguising our voices if we want to talk on Vent or Xbox Live! The audacity of us, designing characters that look kinda like ourselves! The sheer chutzpah of us, daring to make an LP while simultaneously possessing breasts!

I have never, not once, heard a male gamer criticized for "making sure you know they're male." Male players are perfectly allowed to sound male, look male, introduce themselves by male names, tell dick jokes, whatever without anyone accusing them of being an terrible attention whore flaunting their maleness in public. Why in the hell should I be held to a special standard in which I must try to hide my gender in order to enjoy my hobby?

Presumably because gaming is some kind of He-Man Woman-Haters Club.

[Ifreann]

Personally, I'd love to see a variety of body types - but if it's too hard for game developers to manage that, I do think the "default" body type should look like a body that occurs in nature, and, ideally, like a body type reasonably well suited for doing whatever it is the character does. I'm not even saying "no skinny women with big knockers" - as a skinny woman with big knockers, I can hardly deny that body type exists. But maybe make the big knockers D cups rather than M cups if she has a 24-inch waist, and maybe have her put them in a freaking sports bra and some practical armor while fighting monsters rather than having her go, "Tee-hee! Getting black eyes from my own bizarrely perky mostly-naked chest-melons is so fun! Did I mention they're larger than my head? How am I even walking upright? Tee-hee!'

We can get you a little cart to put your boobs in when you walk.

Maybe it's just me, but I find nothing wrong with a perfectly normal looking female character in functional chain mail. Visible cleavage would be ill advised in a battle against an Orc or a dragon after all.

Note to self, make a game in which revealing armour leads to swift and painful death

---

...or you could just make them look like PEOPLE, with the normal variation in body types that occurs in actual human beings. It's crazy, but it just might work.

Have you lost your goddamned mind?

Chaos, anarchy, and nuclear winter lie that direction.

Cats and dogs living together...

---

...or you could just make them look like PEOPLE, with the normal variation in body types that occurs in actual human beings. It's crazy, but it just might work.

Well, I mean, yeah. Please note that the other poster implied that women should have no boobs in games and that is, normally, unrealistic.

Personally, I'd love to see a variety of body types - but if it's too hard for game developers to manage that, I do think the "default" body type should look like a body that occurs in nature, and, ideally, like a body type reasonably well suited for doing whatever it is the character does. I'm not even saying "no skinny women with big knockers" - as a skinny woman with big knockers, I can hardly deny that body type exists. But maybe make the big knockers D cups rather than M cups if she has a 24-inch waist, and maybe have her put them in a freaking sports bra and some practical armor while fighting monsters rather than having her go, "Tee-hee! Getting black eyes from my own bizarrely perky mostly-naked chest-melons is so fun! Did I mention they're larger than my head? How am I even walking upright? Tee-hee!'

I'd really like to know what non-eroge games you've been playing.

She's mentioned Soul Caliber, which should say enough.

[Ifreann]

Weird. Try this one. Or just google "Ivy Soul Calibur." She's a pretty great example of shitty character design in which "lol boobies" is prioritized above all else.

Holy shit.

Those...how can she even see?

Her boobs are well disguised sonar systems.

[Ifreann]

True and both Dreamfall and Beyond Good & Evil were ahead of their time.

I think the point of Skyrim is you make up your own backstory in your head, kinda like a traditional RPG where you can be anything you want.

Also things are changing, games are becoming more and more about equality for both sexes in games. the latest Tomb Raider was a pretty good game and it had the main character was a strong yet had realistic weaknesses to over come.

So things are getting better, we just have to keep fighting for it through your words and our wallets

I get that. I'm just saying that Skyrim isn't exactly a good example of gender equality.

I will say that most feminist activist do need to look at newer games to compare and on a broader spectrum too. The video that Dakini linked showed games that are made pre-2010. It made good points, it just seems outdated to me. Considering newer games like Bioshock Infinite would make it more relevant to modern times.

Have video games and the culture around them really changed so much in the last three years?

[Ifreann]

Yes, but I don't see men being objectified to that level.

Really? It's quite commonplace. It's fairly common to find a videogame character who is at their core an exaggeration of masculinity/femininity.

High level, supposedly powerful males aren't forced to run around in what amounts to lingerie.

No, but many are over the top, machismo males. You know, the stereotype for men.

And we don't want to take away their ability to design characters, but we can still complain that their characters are sexist and represent an impossible standard.

That seems pretty damn idiotic. "It's fantasy, therefore we'll complain about it like it's real! How dare these companies create a fantasy realm, for the purpose of enjoying the impossible! It should be realistic like everything else! No escape from reality!"

Because what people enjoy about fighting games like the Soul series is impossibly large-breasted women in impossibly small and poorly conceived outfits. Not the fighting, no, certainly not.

[Ifreann]

Because what people enjoy about fighting games like the Soul series is impossibly large-breasted women in impossibly small and poorly conceived outfits. Not the fighting, no, certainly not.

Your point? I fail to see how this is in any way relevant to anything I said.

My point is that games can be fun and escapes from reality without being sexist, and indeed it would be better for all gamers were we to have more games without sexism.