Things That Should Be Common Knowledge By Now

[Conscentia]

Not necessarily.
B. F. Skinner's experiments showed that you could essentially program animals.

You can train your child to enjoy keeping their room clean, too. Then they become willing to clean up.

Training animals, whether they're humans or another species, for sex on command is despicable.

[Ifreann]

Thy opinion is disgusting and unfounded in the facts. It is entirely possible to rape an animal. The fact that it happens doesn't make it okay. Murder also occurs in other species, it is not okay.

We cannot verify the consent of any other species, and so consent must be assumed to be absent. If consent is absent, it is rape.

imo if you're on the receiving end without training the animal to do it or forcing it to do it, the consent must be there. i.e. the animal chooses to put it's penis in your hidey hole, it cannot be rape.

It's ridiculous to suggest that any known life form other than humans can consent to sex in any meaningful sense.

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

imo if you're on the receiving end without training the animal to do it or forcing it to do it, the consent must be there. i.e. the animal chooses to put it's penis in your hidey hole, it cannot be rape.

It's ridiculous to suggest that any known life form other than humans can consent to sex in any meaningful sense.

That was actually also my point when I told, together with my view that sex with animals shouldn't be a crime, that rape is a concept related in great part to human brain functions.

[Conscentia]

Conscentia, I still don't see how it would be fair.

[...]

Don't see how what would be fair? You didn't quote anything - I don't know what you are referring to.

[Conscentia]

It's ridiculous to suggest that any known life form other than humans can consent to sex in any meaningful sense.

That was actually also my point when I told, together with my view that sex with animals shouldn't be a crime, that rape is a concept related in great part to human brain functions.

No. Sex with animals is automatically rape, because we cannot obtain meaningful consent from them.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

You can train your child to enjoy keeping their room clean, too. Then they become willing to clean up.

Training animals, whether they're humans or another species, for sex on command is despicable.

Sorry but I just don't see how an animal being willing and, often, enthusiastic to have sex with you is wrong or deserving of prison time. Especially considering we are essentially allowed to force chemicals down their throat as we keep in in cages so small they can't move, breed them nonstop, hook them up to painful and dangerous machines to extract milk from them, force them to literally live in inches of their own shit, and slaughter them.

[Conscentia]

Training animals, whether they're humans or another species, for sex on command is despicable.

Sorry but I just don't see how an animal being willing and, often, enthusiastic to have sex with you is wrong or deserving of prison time. Especially considering we are essentially allowed to force chemicals down their throat as we keep in in cages so small they can't move, breed them nonstop, hook them up to painful and dangerous machines to extract milk from them, force them to literally live in inches of their own shit, and slaughter them.

That we do all that doesn't make raping them acceptable.

All of it is unacceptable, and it's despicable that such things occur at all.

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

Conscentia, I still don't see how it would be fair.

[...]

Don't see how what would be fair? You didn't quote anything - I don't know what you are referring to.

That zoophilia is either equally wrong as or less wrong than meat-eating and whether it should be legally banned.

For the reasons Torcularis just explained.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Sorry but I just don't see how an animal being willing and, often, enthusiastic to have sex with you is wrong or deserving of prison time. Especially considering we are essentially allowed to force chemicals down their throat as we keep in in cages so small they can't move, breed them nonstop, hook them up to painful and dangerous machines to extract milk from them, force them to literally live in inches of their own shit, and slaughter them.

That we do all that doesn't make raping them acceptable.

All of it is unacceptable, and it's despicable that such things occur at all.

So you're a vegan?

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

Sorry but I just don't see how an animal being willing and, often, enthusiastic to have sex with you is wrong or deserving of prison time. Especially considering we are essentially allowed to force chemicals down their throat as we keep in in cages so small they can't move, breed them nonstop, hook them up to painful and dangerous machines to extract milk from them, force them to literally live in inches of their own shit, and slaughter them.

That we do all that doesn't make raping them acceptable.

All of it is unacceptable, and it's despicable that such things occur at all.

My point was about shaming people (how many of us are vegan again? Do we have moral high-ground to bash zoophiles, be them animal molesters or not, why?) and arresting them.

Though I am doubtful if the lack of evidence for consent turning zoophilia into rape by logic is really existent in dolphins.

[Conscentia]

Don't see how what would be fair? You didn't quote anything - I don't know what you are referring to.

That zoophilia is as wrong as meat-eating and that it should be legally banned.

For the reasons Torcularis just explained.

Zoophilia, as in being attracted to animals, is fine.
Acting on it, and proceeding to have sex with an animal is wrong.

The acceptability of meat eating depends on circumstance. If one is about to starve to death, it is acceptable to eat boar for survival so long as you kill it as humanely as possible.
Breeding insects, however, seems to me to be acceptable. Insects aren't particularly intelligent, they're nutritious, and it's easy to breed them for food without causing them suffering.
Battery farming chickens, however, is vile.

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

That zoophilia is as wrong as meat-eating and that it should be legally banned.

For the reasons Torcularis just explained.

Zoophilia, as in being attracted to animals, is fine.
Acting on it, and proceeding to have sex with an animal is wrong.

The acceptability of meat eating depends on circumstance. If one is about to starve to death, it is acceptable to eat boar for survival so long as you kill it as humanely as possible.
Breeding insects, however, seems to me to be acceptable. Insects aren't particularly intelligent, they're nutritious, and it's easy to breed them for food without causing them suffering.
Battery farming chickens, however, is vile.

...

That is just not the system we have and people ban zoophilia because "it's disgusting" or "a sin".

[Conscentia]

That we do all that doesn't make raping them acceptable.
All of it is unacceptable, and it's despicable that such things occur at all.

So you're a vegan?

No. I do not think that eggs and milk, when obtained ethically, results in suffering to an animal.

[Conscentia]

That is just not the system we have and people ban zoophilia because "it's disgusting" or "a sin".

I never claimed I supported the existing system.

[Ifreann]

It's ridiculous to suggest that any known life form other than humans can consent to sex in any meaningful sense.

That was actually also my point when I told, together with my view that sex with animals shouldn't be a crime, that rape is a concept related in great part to human brain functions.

On the contrary, the fact that we can't obtain meaningful consent from animals is exactly why sex with them should be illegal and considered rape.

---

Training animals, whether they're humans or another species, for sex on command is despicable.

Sorry but I just don't see how an animal being willing and, often, enthusiastic to have sex with you is wrong or deserving of prison time.

Because the animal has little to no understanding of what is going on, much like someone who has been drugged or isn't fully conscious.

Especially considering we are essentially allowed to force chemicals down their throat as we keep in in cages so small they can't move, breed them nonstop, hook them up to painful and dangerous machines to extract milk from them, force them to literally live in inches of their own shit, and slaughter them.

People getting away with some forms of abuse doesn't make other forms of abuse acceptable, and holy fuck why did I have to say that to an adult person?

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

That was actually also my point when I told, together with my view that sex with animals shouldn't be a crime, that rape is a concept related in great part to human brain functions.

On the contrary, the fact that we can't obtain meaningful consent from animals is exactly why sex with them should be illegal and considered rape.

---

Sorry but I just don't see how an animal being willing and, often, enthusiastic to have sex with you is wrong or deserving of prison time.

Because the animal has little to no understanding of what is going on, much like someone who has been drugged or isn't fully conscious.

Especially considering we are essentially allowed to force chemicals down their throat as we keep in in cages so small they can't move, breed them nonstop, hook them up to painful and dangerous machines to extract milk from them, force them to literally live in inches of their own shit, and slaughter them.

People getting away with some forms of abuse doesn't make other forms of abuse acceptable, and holy fuck why did I have to say that to an adult person?

If a man is laying down, his hands at his sides, doing nothing, and a woman who is drunk walks over to him and hops on his dick for a spin, is it rape?

[Mkuki]

On the contrary, the fact that we can't obtain meaningful consent from animals is exactly why sex with them should be illegal and considered rape.

---

Because the animal has little to no understanding of what is going on, much like someone who has been drugged or isn't fully conscious.

People getting away with some forms of abuse doesn't make other forms of abuse acceptable, and holy fuck why did I have to say that to an adult person?

If a man is laying down, his hands at his sides, doing nothing, and a woman who is drunk walks over to him and hops on his dick for a spin, is it rape?

For whom?

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

If a man is laying down, his hands at his sides, doing nothing, and a woman who is drunk walks over to him and hops on his dick for a spin, is it rape?

For whom?

Did he rape the woman?

[Conscentia]

If a man is laying down, his hands at his sides, doing nothing, and a woman who is drunk walks over to him and hops on his dick for a spin, is it rape?

Obviously. This guy is just lying there, probably trying to get some sleep, and some woman just jumps on him? Sounds like rape to me.

[Bottle]

Oh yay, we've reached the "lets come up with whatever outrageous impossible fantasy situation would be necessary to distract from the real topic" phase of a rape discussion...

[Conscentia]

For whom?

Did he rape the woman?

Her consent is not valid. She is intoxicated.

[Mkuki]

For whom?

Did he rape the woman?

Depends on if there is consent or not.

The below is a much better answer:

Did he rape the woman?

Her consent is not valid. She is intoxicated.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Did he rape the woman?

Her consent is not valid. She is intoxicated.

So he raped her by not doing anything?

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

We are talking about animals rather than children, Ifreann. Animals fuck with each other, in nature, pretty much without asking each other, because they have no speech. They can just deny by moving or in some cases attacking. If they feel it is fine, it is not rape, at least not our rape, that is much more than just sex without consent. It is also sex with panic, psychological and often physical pain, fear, anger. No one ever attested animals feel this, or even that they feel invaded at all, even when they are dicked, much less when they are attempting to mate themselves. And there should be plenty of evidence for asserting that animals feel raped because we indeed do study animal sexuality, but there isn't.

[Conscentia]

Her consent is not valid. She is intoxicated.

So he raped her by not doing anything?

Either he did nothing, thus taking advantage of the situation. (He rapes.)
Or he tries to stop her, and she doesn't allow him. (He is raped.)