Texas Finally Passes Abortion Bill!

[Crumlark]

You are bringing an emotional charge to this discussion. Let's bring it down a bit?

I'm bringing an emotional charge to a discussion on whether you think I should be enslaved to something that decides to grow in me?

The mother is uncomfortable.

She's not a mother until it's born.

The unborn will be terminated as a direct result of knowing and reckless actions removing it.

How is it reckless?

I simply place the right to life above comfort.

And I place the right for a person (which a woman is) to assert the right to only allow use of their body when they allow it. We do not grant born persons this "right" why the fuck should unborn non-persons be given special privileges? Especially, why should their "privilege" overrule a person's (the woman's) rights?

I am sorry we cannot see eye to eye on this in even the most basic form of this.

Yeah, I would have thought that you could be less about enslaving women too. But apparently that's too difficult.

Enslave is too strong a word. Obligated, perhaps would fit better.
I apologize for my terminology.
Recklessness in this case would be: Knowingly putting another into a situation where there is more than a likely chance and it is plausible for a rational human being to come to the conclusion that one shall be harmed in the events within the situation.
Because they have no other choice. None whatsoever. Born persons can voluntarily cease 'using a woman's body' (also an emotionally charged phrase you have gotten far too frisky with)
I am not. I am, however, against the willing use of operations that would result in a potential person dying.

[Dragoria]

If that means they decide their body should be used to break laws, that is their decision.

This is exactly why the "bodily sovereignty" argument makes no sense.

So we shouldn't let anyone decide what to do with their bodies, we should decide for them. No.
The law enforcement officials would then most likely decide that their bodies should be used to stop the other body from breaking the law. In most cases, people decide that the risk of a potential clash with LEOs isn't a risk they're willing to take.

[Christian Democrats]

It would be infinitely preferable to having the mother die due to an illegal abortion.

She did not die, and she eventually obtained a legal abortion elsewhere in her country.

An abortion would have been legal, but all the doctors in the area were morally opposed to it.

What would you do? Force a doctor to perform an elective abortion on a woman against his will?

Would I force a doctor to do his or her job? If they want to keep the job, yes.

So one does not have the freedom to choose his occupation?

"I want to be a doctor, but I will not perform abortions."

What is wrong with that?

[Bodobol]

It would be infinitely preferable to having the mother die due to an illegal abortion.

She did not die, and she eventually obtained a legal abortion elsewhere in her country.

Oh. Whoops. That one was actually my fault. I thought you were quoting a different article.

[Crumlark]

BIG difference between 'will not' and 'can not' in that situation.
They lose the future ability to live normally.

Not the mother's problem.
Whether you can/did ask does not make my "no" any less valid.

Except you were using 'will not' situations to bring an emotional bias towards your stance.

[Dakini]

I'm bringing an emotional charge to a discussion on whether you think I should be enslaved to something that decides to grow in me?


She's not a mother until it's born.


How is it reckless?


And I place the right for a person (which a woman is) to assert the right to only allow use of their body when they allow it. We do not grant born persons this "right" why the fuck should unborn non-persons be given special privileges? Especially, why should their "privilege" overrule a person's (the woman's) rights?


Yeah, I would have thought that you could be less about enslaving women too. But apparently that's too difficult.

Enslave is too strong a word. Obligated, perhaps would fit better.

Nah, mine is more accurate.

I apologize for my terminology.
Recklessness in this case would be: Knowingly putting another into a situation where there is more than a likely chance and it is plausible for a rational human being to come to the conclusion that one shall be harmed in the events within the situation.
Because they have no other choice. None whatsoever. Born persons can voluntarily cease 'using a woman's body' (also an emotionally charged phrase you have gotten far too frisky with)

Not my problem. If they can survive on their own good on 'em. If not, why should I have to keep them there if I don't want them there. They don't get special privileges over my body.

I am not. I am, however, against the willing use of operations that would result in a potential person dying.

So you think women should have fewer rights than barely differentiated clumps of cells. How nice.

[Dragoria]

Not the mother's problem.
Whether you can/did ask does not make my "no" any less valid.

Except you were using 'will not' situations to bring an emotional bias towards your stance.

That doesn't change the fact that a "no" is a "no" whether it was/was not/could not be asked for.

[Madredia]

No I was saying that if a child has a deficiency due to the fact that their mother drank during pregnancy, they should be allowed to sue for damages later in life.

Ah yes. Punish those stupid sluts good 'cause women ain't worth a damn unless they're providing us with healthy men. Yee-haw!

No, punish a woman who was stupid enough to consume alcohol in large enough quantities that her child is physically fucked up. The child should damn well be able to get compensation for the mother's horrible judgement that made the child disabled. How the hell can you, as a self respecting human being, think that if a child gets FAS from their mother's drinking, and has mental defects, learning disabilities, and growth deficiencies, the mother should not be liable?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

It would be infinitely preferable to having the mother die due to an illegal abortion.

She did not die, and she eventually obtained a legal abortion elsewhere in her country.

Would I force a doctor to do his or her job? If they want to keep the job, yes.

So one does not have the freedom to choose his occupation?

"I want to be a doctor, but I will not perform abortions."

What is wrong with that?

That it is a doctor's fucking job to do what he has to do for his/her patient.

A doctor who doesn't want to do abortion has many other choices and specialties to go to, however, those who are on the OB/GYN specialty are in a bind because it is their job to provide these service.

It isn't fucking rocket science, if you signed up for something, you better be well informed what the contract entails.

[Dakini]

Would I force a doctor to do his or her job? If they want to keep the job, yes.

So one does not have the freedom to choose his occupation?

"I want to be a doctor, but I will not perform abortions."

What is wrong with that?

You're in the wrong business if you're unwilling to do what's best for your patients as determined by your country's health organization.

[Christian Democrats]

She did not die, and she eventually obtained a legal abortion elsewhere in her country.


So one does not have the freedom to choose his occupation?

"I want to be a doctor, but I will not perform abortions."

What is wrong with that?

That it is a doctor's fucking job to do what he has to do for his/her patient.

A doctor who doesn't want to do abortion has many other choices and specialties to go to, however, those who are on the OB/GYN specialty are in a bind because it is their job to provide these service.

It isn't fucking rocket science, if you signed up for something, you better be well informed what the contract entails.

Most doctors don't sign up to perform abortions. Why would you force one to perform an elective abortion?

[Dakini]

Ah yes. Punish those stupid sluts good 'cause women ain't worth a damn unless they're providing us with healthy men. Yee-haw!

No, punish a woman who was stupid enough to consume alcohol in large enough quantities that her child is physically fucked up.

Because women are all fucking dumbasses! Yee-haw!

I mean, they clearly know they're pregnant the moment they conceive and they clearly never have substance abuse problems and if they do, they always have appropriate support to deal with it.

The child should damn well be able to get compensation for the mother's horrible judgement that made the child disabled. How the hell can you, as a self respecting human being, think that if a child gets FAS from their mother's drinking, and has mental defects, learning disabilities, and growth deficiencies, the mother should not be liable?

Because addiction is a mental health issue. It's much more the fault of the state for not having appropriate substance abuse treatment centres available.

[Dakini]

That it is a doctor's fucking job to do what he has to do for his/her patient.

A doctor who doesn't want to do abortion has many other choices and specialties to go to, however, those who are on the OB/GYN specialty are in a bind because it is their job to provide these service.

It isn't fucking rocket science, if you signed up for something, you better be well informed what the contract entails.

Most doctors don't sign up to perform abortions. Why would you force one to perform an elective abortion?

I wouldn't force them. I'd just fire them if they refused.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

That it is a doctor's fucking job to do what he has to do for his/her patient.

A doctor who doesn't want to do abortion has many other choices and specialties to go to, however, those who are on the OB/GYN specialty are in a bind because it is their job to provide these service.

It isn't fucking rocket science, if you signed up for something, you better be well informed what the contract entails.

Most doctors don't sign up to perform abortions. Why would you force one to perform an elective abortion?

Because OB/GYNs have that responsibility as well as many others?

Or are you suggesting that an OB/GYN only has SOME duties to attend and fuck the rest? A job doesn't have morality, it is a job. Regardless of your morals, you decided to get into the profession, you have to do what you are there to do, not more and not less. If it so happens one of the things you have to do is perform abortions so be it.

[Bodobol]

That it is a doctor's fucking job to do what he has to do for his/her patient.

A doctor who doesn't want to do abortion has many other choices and specialties to go to, however, those who are on the OB/GYN specialty are in a bind because it is their job to provide these service.

It isn't fucking rocket science, if you signed up for something, you better be well informed what the contract entails.

Most doctors don't sign up to perform abortions. Why would you force one to perform an elective abortion?

That's like saying that McDonald's workers shouldn't have to prepare fries for their customers, because that's not what they signed up for. Regardless of whether or not it was specifically what they signed up for, it's part of their jobs.

[Dragoria]

That it is a doctor's fucking job to do what he has to do for his/her patient.

A doctor who doesn't want to do abortion has many other choices and specialties to go to, however, those who are on the OB/GYN specialty are in a bind because it is their job to provide these service.

It isn't fucking rocket science, if you signed up for something, you better be well informed what the contract entails.

Most doctors don't sign up to perform abortions. Why would you force one to perform an elective abortion?

Right, they go into fields of medicine that don't involve abortions, like dentistry or cardiac specialists or what have you. But if I'm a carpenter and decide "I'm not going to cut boards because it's against my morals", I'm in the wrong line of work. If I want to do construction but am morally opposed to cutting boards, I should have been, say, a plumber, or a welder, or some other specialization where that is not a vital job requirement.

But the doctors weren't refusing to perform the abortion because they disagreed with the procedure. They refused to perform the abortion because even though they agreed with it, nutters were threatening to kill them. "I know it's your job to cut boards, but if you cut this board I will bomb your woodshop!"
Please read the article.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Most doctors don't sign up to perform abortions. Why would you force one to perform an elective abortion?

That's like saying that McDonald's workers shouldn't have to prepare fries for their customers, because that's not what they signed up for. Regardless of whether or not it was specifically what they signed up for, it's part of their jobs.

Now, I may agree with the fact of maybe saying "a cardiologist is not supposed to be doing abortions" and they are right, because cardiologists know fuck all about OB/GYN.

However, an OB/GYN is an OB/GYN, and it is part of their specialty to know how to perform an abortion procedure.

[Bodobol]

That's like saying that McDonald's workers shouldn't have to prepare fries for their customers, because that's not what they signed up for. Regardless of whether or not it was specifically what they signed up for, it's part of their jobs.

Now, I may agree with the fact of maybe saying "a cardiologist is not supposed to be doing abortions" and they are right, because cardiologists know fuck all about OB/GYN.

However, an OB/GYN is an OB/GYN, and it is part of their specialty to know how to perform an abortion procedure.

It's like a neurosurgeon refusing to perform brain surgery. It doesn't make sense.

[Christian Democrats]

Most doctors don't sign up to perform abortions. Why would you force one to perform an elective abortion?

Because OB/GYNs have that responsibility as well as many others?

Or are you suggesting that an OB/GYN only has SOME duties to attend and fuck the rest? A job doesn't have morality, it is a job. Regardless of your morals, you decided to get into the profession, you have to do what you are there to do, not more and not less.

Would you say the same to a prostitute who wants to perform only hand jobs?

No, you signed up to be a prostitute. Now, I am going to force you to have sex.

[Madredia]

No, punish a woman who was stupid enough to consume alcohol in large enough quantities that her child is physically fucked up.

Because women are all fucking dumbasses! Yee-haw!

I mean, they clearly know they're pregnant the moment they conceive and they clearly never have substance abuse problems and if they do, they always have appropriate support to deal with it.

The child should damn well be able to get compensation for the mother's horrible judgement that made the child disabled. How the hell can you, as a self respecting human being, think that if a child gets FAS from their mother's drinking, and has mental defects, learning disabilities, and growth deficiencies, the mother should not be liable?

Because addiction is a mental health issue. It's much more the fault of the state for not having appropriate substance abuse treatment centres available.

Of course because every shortcoming of every human being is a fault of the state. Many women drink while knowledgeably pregnant, because they are addicted, and their child will have to live with the consequences, which very often include mental deficiencies. That woman should not be excused for ruining her child's entire life. She's no better than a man who is abusive due to his alcohol addiction.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Because OB/GYNs have that responsibility as well as many others?

Or are you suggesting that an OB/GYN only has SOME duties to attend and fuck the rest? A job doesn't have morality, it is a job. Regardless of your morals, you decided to get into the profession, you have to do what you are there to do, not more and not less.

Would you say the same to a prostitute who wants to perform only hand jobs?

No, you signed up to be a prostitute. Now, I am going to force you to have sex.

No, I would just not pay her and leave.

Her freedom of attempting to get away from it will cost her my money, I do not need to force her to have sex.

[Christian Democrats]

Now, I may agree with the fact of maybe saying "a cardiologist is not supposed to be doing abortions" and they are right, because cardiologists know fuck all about OB/GYN.

However, an OB/GYN is an OB/GYN, and it is part of their specialty to know how to perform an abortion procedure.

It's like a neurosurgeon refusing to perform brain surgery. It doesn't make sense.

Most doctors want to save lives, not end them.

[Bodobol]

Because OB/GYNs have that responsibility as well as many others?

Or are you suggesting that an OB/GYN only has SOME duties to attend and fuck the rest? A job doesn't have morality, it is a job. Regardless of your morals, you decided to get into the profession, you have to do what you are there to do, not more and not less.

Would you say the same to a prostitute who wants to perform only hand jobs?

No, you signed up to be a prostitute. Now, I am going to force you to have sex.

The difference is, (1)prostitutes are usually self-employed, and (2)they are not highly specialized.

[Bodobol]

It's like a neurosurgeon refusing to perform brain surgery. It doesn't make sense.

Most doctors want to save lives, not end them.

Exactly. Non-sapient, parasitic fetuses can put a mother's life in danger, so the OB/GYN should perform the damn surgery.

[Christian Democrats]

Would you say the same to a prostitute who wants to perform only hand jobs?

No, you signed up to be a prostitute. Now, I am going to force you to have sex.

No, I would just not pay her and leave.

Her freedom of attempting to get away from it will cost her my money, I do not need to force her to have sex.

So, why not do the same for a doctor?

You don't perform abortions? Well, I'll go find another doctor to perform this elective procedure.