Christian Discussion Thread III

[Tarsonis Survivors]

So you're talking about Mega Church Evangelicalism, not Modern protestantism.

And significant 'liberal' strands in Catholicism, Anglicanism, and I would expect all denominations. The inside layout of the 1960s Catholic cathedral in Liverpool is very evocative of Mega Church Evangelicalism.

The Vatican itself has an air of Mega Church Evangelicalism IMHO

[The Tovian Way]

Whole lot of assumptions there.

What assumptions did I make? It explicitly says in the bible that if you don't repent for your sins and accept Jesus' sacrifice you will go to Hell. It's really plain. You can live a good, morally decent life, like Ghandi, and not accept Jesus as your lord and saviour, like Ghandi, and go to Hell, like Ghandi did if the bible is true and accurate.

Assumptions made:
God is the one deciding that nonbelievers go to hell.
That people in hell are there for punishment.
That this punishment comes in the form of a lake of fire.
That consignment to hell is eternal.
That this eternal punishment is in response to even the most simplest of sins.

None of these are doctrines are core to the Christian faith, and with respect to Catholic Christianity, some are actually contrary to Church doctrine (e.g. only mortal sins result in consignment to hell, not necessarily venial sins).

[Stolen Droplets]

Whole lot of assumptions there.

What assumptions did I make? It explicitly says in the bible that if you don't repent for your sins and accept Jesus' sacrifice you will go to Hell. It's really plain. You can live a good, morally decent life, like Ghandi, and not accept Jesus as your lord and saviour, like Ghandi, and go to Hell, like Ghandi did if the bible is true and accurate.

I have accepted Jesus Christ and have gone to confession. I've been to Catholic Catechism I've done alot. I just don't defend him...or the Church. I dont ahve that enery in store for me to use. The cornerstone of Christianity is don't be an asshole and I'm not one. I real am not. Stop trying to incite a fight by adding your voice to the fire...maybe its Ironic that i say that but Im different i don't attack or defend. Now if i see you on the other side...whatever that side is (I'm a Theistic Evolutionist) we can talk about it. Now...i'd say shutup but i can't stop you.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Eddie Izzard summed it up best when discussing the Crusades.


Christians: "We kill you Muslims in the name of Jesus."
Muslims: "Jesus is a prophet in our religion, we kill YOU in the name of Jesus."
Christians: "Really? Well than we kill you over race, for Jesus was a white man from Oxford, such as we."
Muslims: "No he wasn't. He was from Judea, an Arab such as we."
Christians: "Really? Look, we've come all this way..."

Why do you people have the Zeal to even fight about religion. I'm Catholic, i know my religion was thrown onto the natives, i know about the crusade...but that was then and this is now...and yes it's that simple. People are different today. Only the real jackasses, who atheists and myself hate, such as the westboro nuts or those jackass tea partiers who want to put their religion into gov are people that should be hated.

I'm a Christian whose pro-choice, who doesnt beleive his marrige to his wife is threatened by a mararige between two men or two women. I have Arab-Muslim friends, i go to school with athesits and jews and other christians. Why the fuck does it matter who believes what? Just because one religion has a bunch of others tainting it...I don't believe the Christian Faith is the best faith. It's not and it never will be, NO RELIGION will ever be the best or the worst. Just the people who have their heads up their ass and being hypocrites (Tea Party/Republican Party).

I don't defend my religion i dont attack it, because I dont have the energy for it. It's people like all of you who do take action that polarizes the entire issue which goes on and on and on...

This is why,

"Revelations 3: 14‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,[b] I will vomit you out of My mouth.


Also you have a lot of misconceptions about the conservative, but I expect no less from someone so clearly ingrained and brainwashed by liberal Ideology. Discuss politics somewhere else please.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Why do you people have the Zeal to even fight about religion. I'm Catholic, i know my religion was thrown onto the natives, i know about the crusade...but that was then and this is now...and yes it's that simple. People are different today. Only the real jackasses, who atheists and myself hate, such as the westboro nuts or those jackass tea partiers who want to put their religion into gov are people that should be hated.

I'm a Christian whose pro-choice, who doesnt beleive his marrige to his wife is threatened by a mararige between two men or two women. I have Arab-Muslim friends, i go to school with athesits and jews and other christians. Why the fuck does it matter who believes what? Just because one religion has a bunch of others tainting it...I don't believe the Christian Faith is the best faith. It's not and it never will be, NO RELIGION will ever be the best or the worst. Just the people who have their heads up their ass and being hypocrites (Tea Party/Republican Party).

I don't defend my religion i dont attack it, because I dont have the energy for it. It's people like all of you who do take action that polarizes the entire issue which goes on and on and on...

The zeal to fight religion might be, it's growing influence in US politics. Such as:The Christian Right and Creationists. And, the negative aspects of Islam today in the Middle East then, throw in the Roman Catholic sex scandals. And now, you have a boiling pot of negative attitudes toward religion.

Take it somewhere else Rome.

[Neo Rome Republic]

The zeal to fight religion might be, it's growing influence in US politics. Such as:The Christian Right and Creationists. And, the negative aspects of Islam today in the Middle East then, throw in the Roman Catholic sex scandals. And now, you have a boiling pot of negative attitudes toward religion.

Take it somewhere else Rome.

Well it's kinda too late, I already answered his question.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Take it somewhere else Rome.

Well it's kinda too late, I already answered his question.

That's what you think. I will spend the rest of my life building a time machine to go back in time and stop you. you are warned.

[Stolen Droplets]

Why do you people have the Zeal to even fight about religion. I'm Catholic, i know my religion was thrown onto the natives, i know about the crusade...but that was then and this is now...and yes it's that simple. People are different today. Only the real jackasses, who atheists and myself hate, such as the westboro nuts or those jackass tea partiers who want to put their religion into gov are people that should be hated.

I'm a Christian whose pro-choice, who doesnt beleive his marrige to his wife is threatened by a mararige between two men or two women. I have Arab-Muslim friends, i go to school with athesits and jews and other christians. Why the fuck does it matter who believes what? Just because one religion has a bunch of others tainting it...I don't believe the Christian Faith is the best faith. It's not and it never will be, NO RELIGION will ever be the best or the worst. Just the people who have their heads up their ass and being hypocrites (Tea Party/Republican Party).

I don't defend my religion i dont attack it, because I dont have the energy for it. It's people like all of you who do take action that polarizes the entire issue which goes on and on and on...

This is why,

"Revelations 3: 14‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,[b] I will vomit you out of My mouth.


Also you have a lot of misconceptions about the conservative, but I expect no less from someone so clearly ingrained and brainwashed by liberal Ideology. Discuss politics somewhere else please.

Piss off...the Liberals and Conservatives can suck it. They're too polarized...and don't know the unity of the people. I hate the American left/ American Right...they have no real roads to prosperity. The Centre Aisle is the best. No one bothers to pick their opponent for ideas...

[Nationalist State of Knox]

Are there any Jehovah's witnesses on this thread?

[Neo Rome Republic]

Well it's kinda too late, I already answered his question.

That's what you think. I will spend the rest of my life building a time machine to go back in time and stop you. you are warned.

Or you can use that machine to prove Jesus was the Son of God.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

This is why,

"Revelations 3: 14‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,[b] I will vomit you out of My mouth.


Also you have a lot of misconceptions about the conservative, but I expect no less from someone so clearly ingrained and brainwashed by liberal Ideology. Discuss politics somewhere else please.

Piss off...the Liberals and Conservatives can suck it. They're too polarized...and don't know the unity of the people. I hate the American left/ American Right...they have no real roads to prosperity. The Centre Aisle is the best. No one bothers to pick their opponent for ideas...

Regardless, this isn't a political discussion thread. If you want to discuss that, take it somewhere else.

[Athylon Prime]

What assumptions did I make? It explicitly says in the bible that if you don't repent for your sins and accept Jesus' sacrifice you will go to Hell. It's really plain. You can live a good, morally decent life, like Ghandi, and not accept Jesus as your lord and saviour, like Ghandi, and go to Hell, like Ghandi did if the bible is true and accurate.

God is all powerful and thus could save anyone he wanted if he willed it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocatastasis

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Apocatastasis

He could. But, please read the following verses.
Romans 3:10 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 5:8 - But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners,
Christ died for us.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus
Christ our Lord.
Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in
thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto
salvation.
Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
This is the very famous "Romans Road to Salvation". These, among many other verses state that Jesus is the only way to salvation. So, God COULD save anyone he chooses, but he doesn't because they must accept Jesus and his sacrifice. If you don't, you go to Hell. The bible is very clear about that. And for the sake of argument lets just use Christianity, not Judaism. I know, I said Judeo-Christian god, but this is a Christian thread.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

That's what you think. I will spend the rest of my life building a time machine to go back in time and stop you. you are warned.

Or you can use that machine to prove Jesus was the Son of God.

I have an Itinerary. Don't worry.

[Neo Rome Republic]

Or you can use that machine to prove Jesus was the Son of God.

I have an Itinerary. Don't worry.

Cool. Anyway, carry on with your discussion.

[The Land of Truth]

That's what you think. I will spend the rest of my life building a time machine to go back in time and stop you. you are warned.

Or you can use that machine to prove Jesus was the Son of God.

How would you prove that with a time-machine?

[Tarsonis Survivors]

God is all powerful and thus could save anyone he wanted if he willed it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocatastasis

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Apocatastasis

He could. But, please read the following verses.
Romans 3:10 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 5:8 - But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners,
Christ died for us.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus
Christ our Lord.
Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in
thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto
salvation.
Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
This is the very famous "Romans Road to Salvation". These, among many other verses state that Jesus is the only way to salvation. So, God COULD save anyone he chooses, but he doesn't because they must accept Jesus and his sacrifice. If you don't, you go to Hell. The bible is very clear about that. And for the sake of argument lets just use Christianity, not Judaism. I know, I said Judeo-Christian god, but this is a Christian thread.

But if the Pope really has divine authority, everyone is going to heaven now, cause Pope Francis said so.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Or you can use that machine to prove Jesus was the Son of God.

How would you prove that with a time-machine?

Have you seen hamlet 2?

[The Realm of God]

I've been in modern protestant services (Episcopal) and I do enjoy them. My critique isn't to do with sectarianism, its to do with a perception and an experience of a dry and irreverent spirituality that has been advertised to my generation (Those born in the early 90's).

See I'm in that same generation, and honestly I find that Protestantism afford more spiritualism more than I'll say RCC cause I haven't been to an Orthodox Liturgy yet, I overslept last Sunday. Mass is boring. It puts more focus on Religion, than Spiritualism. There's all these rules and things for how to worship, that the spiritualism gets lost. Even Dystruzio admits he hasn't had a spiritual experience.

From my experience Liturgy puts more emphasis in "doing things the right way", than actually having the relationship. "Traditions of Men and all that."


Micah 6:
6With what shall I come before the Lord
and bow down before the exalted God?
Shall I come before him with burnt offerings,
with calves a year old?
7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams,
with ten thousand rivers of olive oil?
Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly[a] with your God.


Protestants put, or believe they put, the relationship above making sure they do the right gesture with the right relic facing the right direction at the right time.

That's why the liturgy of most Protestant Churches, is more lax.

The liturgy should bring people closer together, make them part of a whole and help them to experience God in his sacraments. However I wasn't talking about that, I was talking about the staleness in the way religion is presented to us, in the UK I hardly heard from the church and even when we did it never mentioned what it believed. I never did know what Christianity was and the people who tried to get down to your level were facepalm worthy and never explained what they meant. This staleness has led people to look for spirituality in other areas and the church (in whatever form) must bring back the concept of a mystical, intimate spirituality that once enthralled people.

I think in some areas we are starting to see that coming back.

[The Tovian Way]

God is all powerful and thus could save anyone he wanted if he willed it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocatastasis

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Apocatastasis

He could. But, please read the following verses.
Romans 3:10 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 5:8 - But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners,
Christ died for us.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus
Christ our Lord.
Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in
thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto
salvation.
Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
This is the very famous "Romans Road to Salvation". These, among many other verses state that Jesus is the only way to salvation. So, God COULD save anyone he chooses, but he doesn't because they must accept Jesus and his sacrifice. If you don't, you go to Hell. The bible is very clear about that. And for the sake of argument lets just use Christianity, not Judaism. I know, I said Judeo-Christian god, but this is a Christian thread.

None of this in any way defends the assumptions you made originally.

[Stolen Droplets]

Why do you people have the Zeal to even fight about religion. I'm Catholic, i know my religion was thrown onto the natives, i know about the crusade...but that was then and this is now...and yes it's that simple. People are different today. Only the real jackasses, who atheists and myself hate, such as the westboro nuts or those jackass tea partiers who want to put their religion into gov are people that should be hated.

I'm a Christian whose pro-choice, who doesnt beleive his marrige to his wife is threatened by a mararige between two men or two women. I have Arab-Muslim friends, i go to school with athesits and jews and other christians. Why the fuck does it matter who believes what? Just because one religion has a bunch of others tainting it...I don't believe the Christian Faith is the best faith. It's not and it never will be, NO RELIGION will ever be the best or the worst. Just the people who have their heads up their ass and being hypocrites (Tea Party/Republican Party).

I don't defend my religion i dont attack it, because I dont have the energy for it. It's people like all of you who do take action that polarizes the entire issue which goes on and on and on...

The zeal to fight religion might be, it's growing influence in US politics. Such as:The Christian Right and Creationists. And, the negative aspects of Islam today in the Middle East then, throw in the Roman Catholic sex scandals. And now, you have a boiling pot of negative attitudes toward religion.

Thats the right thing right there.

Religion has no place in politics because any religion that dominates the government would restrict the religious freedoms held by others.

No one is perfect! I believe that a Divine being like God can set forth into motion what atheists hold...science...i think he can do all of that. But i dont shove my rossary or my bible down anyones throat! The Conservatives in Saudi Arabia criticize the Al Queda rat bastards today because of their view. And just because some priests "mollest" doesnt mean EVERY SINGLE ONE IS A MOLLESTER. Why should we hate "The Whole" just because of one...Case in point...Osama Bin Ladin...

[Athylon Prime]

He could. But, please read the following verses.
Romans 3:10 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 5:8 - But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners,
Christ died for us.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus
Christ our Lord.
Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in
thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto
salvation.
Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
This is the very famous "Romans Road to Salvation". These, among many other verses state that Jesus is the only way to salvation. So, God COULD save anyone he chooses, but he doesn't because they must accept Jesus and his sacrifice. If you don't, you go to Hell. The bible is very clear about that. And for the sake of argument lets just use Christianity, not Judaism. I know, I said Judeo-Christian god, but this is a Christian thread.

But if the Pope really has divine authority, everyone is going to heaven now, cause Pope Francis said so.

Yeah, not a big fan of Catholicism. They seem to make it up as they go most of the time. But, to each their own.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

The zeal to fight religion might be, it's growing influence in US politics. Such as:The Christian Right and Creationists. And, the negative aspects of Islam today in the Middle East then, throw in the Roman Catholic sex scandals. And now, you have a boiling pot of negative attitudes toward religion.

Thats the right thing right there.

Religion has no place in politics because any religion that dominates the government would restrict the religious freedoms held by others.

No one is perfect! I believe that a Divine being like God can set forth into motion what atheists hold...science...i think he can do all of that. But i dont shove my rossary or my bible down anyones throat! The Conservatives in Saudi Arabia criticize the Al Queda rat bastards today because of their view. And just because some priests "mollest" doesnt mean EVERY SINGLE ONE IS A MOLLESTER. Why should we hate "The Whole" just because of one...Case in point...Osama Bin Ladin...

Again, this isn't a political discussion thread. If you wish to discuss the effect of Religion on Politics start your own thread. This thread is to discuss Christian themes and topics.

[The Realm of God]

God is all powerful and thus could save anyone he wanted if he willed it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocatastasis

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Apocatastasis

He could. But, please read the following verses.
Romans 3:10 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 5:8 - But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners,
Christ died for us.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus
Christ our Lord.
Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in
thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto
salvation.
Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
This is the very famous "Romans Road to Salvation". These, among many other verses state that Jesus is the only way to salvation. So, God COULD save anyone he chooses, but he doesn't because they must accept Jesus and his sacrifice. If you don't, you go to Hell. The bible is very clear about that. And for the sake of argument lets just use Christianity, not Judaism. I know, I said Judeo-Christian god, but this is a Christian thread.

Right, your idea is called Augustinianism and its major flaw is it suggests that God acts like a computer, in absolute values with no.subjectivity. You must remember that God is sovereign, loving and just. He can choose to save anyone he chooses. Jesus is the only way to gain assurance but God is still in charge, which means your assumption COULD be correct or false who knows the mind of God.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

But if the Pope really has divine authority, everyone is going to heaven now, cause Pope Francis said so.

Yeah, not a big fan of Catholicism. They seem to make it up as they go most of the time. But, to each their own.

I have to say though Pope Francis has restored my faith in the RCC a little bit.

[Menassa]

God is all powerful and thus could save anyone he wanted if he willed it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocatastasis

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Apocatastasis

He could. But, please read the following verses.
Romans 3:10 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 5:8 - But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners,
Christ died for us.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus
Christ our Lord.
Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in
thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto
salvation.
Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
This is the very famous "Romans Road to Salvation". These, among many other verses state that Jesus is the only way to salvation. So, God COULD save anyone he chooses, but he doesn't because they must accept Jesus and his sacrifice. If you don't, you go to Hell. The bible is very clear about that. And for the sake of argument lets just use Christianity, not Judaism. I know, I said Judeo-Christian god, but this is a Christian thread.

Try reading Ezekiel 18
Ezekiel 18:23
Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?