NationStates

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:48 pm**

Conscentia wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:They are to be both.

Sheep that herd themselves? That metaphor doesn't really work.

YES IT DOES!! DOES DOES DOES TIMES INFINITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay so I'm not the best with metaphors. But basically the Christian Congregation, (more accurate word than Church) is a brotherhood unto itself. Yes the Clergy fill the role as the Shepherd, but the Laity also is to keep itself accountable among itself.

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:49 pm**

Spiritual Universalism wrote:
Conscentia wrote:I understand he is referring to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_priesthood_(doctrine)

Understandable, but he said:

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:The People of Christ are his sheep, and Sheep require Shepherds not just to protect them from the wolves, but to guide them in the right direction.

He just implies the use of "higher level" priests-believers to "protect from the wolves" and "guide in the right direction". Thus he creates a separation and division already in the community.

So we are not talking about a unity and commonwealth of all believers (in his words "Church"), but the separation between the Shepherds and the rest.

People don't need shepherds, people need to find their own way to the High Truth. No one will tell me what to do and how I will approach the Spiritual. Suggestions yes. But orders or even instructions, no. I believe it's a personal quest.

Jesus and Paul say you're wrong.

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:49 pm**

A lot of people wonder why I dislike Christianity, and here is the 2 main reasons why:

"If you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to hell even if you are a good person!"
"Everyone must be converted to Christianity!"

While I understand that growing up in a highly religious Evangelical town, I may have too much of a bad taste in my mouth but why are these ideas around and why is there any moral justification towards it?

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:50 pm**

Conscentia wrote:
Spiritual Universalism wrote:Source?

I understand he is referring to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_priesthood_(doctrine)

Not quite, The laity and the Clergy, are separate but they make up One Church.

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:50 pm**

Leningrad Union wrote:A lot of people wonder why I dislike Christianity, and here is the 2 main reasons why:

"If you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to hell even if you are a good person!"
"Everyone must be converted to Christianity!"

While I understand that growing up in a highly religious Evangelical town, I may have too much of a bad taste in my mouth but why are these ideas around and why is there any moral justification towards it?

That's not a universal doctrine of Christianity.

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:54 pm**

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Leningrad Union wrote:A lot of people wonder why I dislike Christianity, and here is the 2 main reasons why:

"If you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to hell even if you are a good person!"
"Everyone must be converted to Christianity!"

While I understand that growing up in a highly religious Evangelical town, I may have too much of a bad taste in my mouth but why are these ideas around and why is there any moral justification towards it?

That's not a universal doctrine of Christianity.

How is it not?

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:11 pm**

Leningrad Union wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
That's not a universal doctrine of Christianity.

How is it not?

Because it's a derivative of NeoProtestant/Evangelical dysjunction by casting off the RCC/EO as the "Synagogue of Satan". Because they cast off this Ecclesiastical Body, there's only intercession by Christ, thus limiting God's ability to extend grace outside of the sacrifice.

That's not really a great explanation, but the issue is very convoluted.

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:12 pm**

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Leningrad Union wrote:A lot of people wonder why I dislike Christianity, and here is the 2 main reasons why:

"If you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to hell even if you are a good person!"
"Everyone must be converted to Christianity!"

While I understand that growing up in a highly religious Evangelical town, I may have too much of a bad taste in my mouth but why are these ideas around and why is there any moral justification towards it?

That's not a universal doctrine of Christianity.

I'm pretty sure he must accept Christ to be saved or he won't get entry into paradise.

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:12 pm**

Leningrad Union wrote:A lot of people wonder why I dislike Christianity, and here is the 2 main reasons why:

"If you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to hell even if you are a good person!"
"Everyone must be converted to Christianity!"

While I understand that growing up in a highly religious Evangelical town, I may have too much of a bad taste in my mouth but why are these ideas around and why is there any moral justification towards it?

That's just a broad generalization.

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:13 pm**

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Othelos wrote:So, how exactly would you propose morally guiding someone who's biology is different? Abstinence is a policy inviting failure.

And I don't understand why love should be prevented or stopped.

Cause Moulin Rouge was a terrible movie.

So...you're saying that love isn't really all that pure or wise?

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:14 pm**

Aeken wrote:
Leningrad Union wrote:A lot of people wonder why I dislike Christianity, and here is the 2 main reasons why:

"If you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to hell even if you are a good person!"
"Everyone must be converted to Christianity!"

While I understand that growing up in a highly religious Evangelical town, I may have too much of a bad taste in my mouth but why are these ideas around and why is there any moral justification towards it?

That's just a broad generalization.

Well the main idea isn't far off. He needs to accept Christ to be fully saved.

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:16 pm**

The Holy Catholic Union wrote:
Aeken wrote:That's just a broad generalization.

Well the main idea isn't far off. He needs to accept Christ to be fully saved.

I don't get it! What if I'm a good person but I don't believe in Jesus. Does that just dictate everything?!

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:18 pm**

Leningrad Union wrote:
The Holy Catholic Union wrote:Well the main idea isn't far off. He needs to accept Christ to be fully saved.

I don't get it! What if I'm a good person but I don't believe in Jesus. Does that just dictate everything?!

Our actions can't make up for our sins. W can only be forgiven by God's grace. Good deeds may play a part, but Jesus needs to be accepted if you wish for full salvation.

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:19 pm**

The Holy Catholic Union wrote:
Leningrad Union wrote:I don't get it! What if I'm a good person but I don't believe in Jesus. Does that just dictate everything?!

Our actions can't make up for our sins. W can only be forgiven by God's grace. Good deeds may play a part, but Jesus needs to be accepted if you wish for full salvation.

You serious? :eyebrow:

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:21 pm**

Othelos wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

Cause Moulin Rouge was a terrible movie.

So...you're saying that love isn't really all that pure or wise?

Yeah, it really isn't. What's the cliche? Biochemically no different than consuming large amounts of chocolate.

I'm not saying love is bad, but there is definitely unhealthy love, immoral loves. Nothing is pure, where humanity is concerned.

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:21 pm**

Leningrad Union wrote:
The Holy Catholic Union wrote:Our actions can't make up for our sins. W can only be forgiven by God's grace. Good deeds may play a part, but Jesus needs to be accepted if you wish for full salvation.

You serious?

Absolutely. Jesus loves you more than you know.

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:21 pm**

Leningrad Union wrote:
The Holy Catholic Union wrote:Well the main idea isn't far off. He needs to accept Christ to be fully saved.

I don't get it! What if I'm a good person but I don't believe in Jesus. Does that just dictate everything?!

What would you define as a good person?

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:26 pm**

The Holy Catholic Union wrote:
Leningrad Union wrote:You serious?

Absolutely. Jesus loves you more than you know.

Can I get an ''Amen''?!

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:27 pm**

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Leningrad Union wrote:I don't get it! What if I'm a good person but I don't believe in Jesus. Does that just dictate everything?!

What would you define as a good person?

Don't steal, murder, give to charity, help the downtrodden, live a live of abstinence concerning drugs and alcohol, sex within marriage.

And yet no belief in Jesus.

(Sorry to butt in, I know you were asking Lenin.)

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:27 pm**

The Holy Catholic Union wrote:
The Holy Catholic Union wrote:Absolutely. Jesus loves you more than you know.

Can I get an ''Amen''?!

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:27 pm**

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Leningrad Union wrote:I don't get it! What if I'm a good person but I don't believe in Jesus. Does that just dictate everything?!

What would you define as a good person?

Someone who is kind and selfless and does good for other people

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:32 pm**

Blasveck wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

What would you define as a good person?

Don't steal, murder, give to charity, help the downtrodden, live a live of abstinence concerning drugs and alcohol, sex within marriage.

And yet no belief in Jesus.

(Sorry to butt in, I know you were asking Lenin.)

Well, I was just wondering as God and Good go hand in hand. Both derive from old English, God derived from the old english god, and good derived from the adjective form of god (with a long o, can't figure out conjugating symbols on chrome). In essence, Culturally and Historically speaking, Goodly means to be Godly, or more pointedly within Western Culture, Christian.

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:32 pm**

Leningrad Union wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

What would you define as a good person?

Someone who is kind and selfless and does good for other people

That is not enough in the eyes of the Lord.

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:32 pm**

Leningrad Union wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

What would you define as a good person?

Someone who is kind and selfless and does good for other people

define Good

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:33 pm**

The Holy Catholic Union wrote:
Leningrad Union wrote:Someone who is kind and selfless and does good for other people

That is not enough in the eyes of the Lord.

You're really not helping.

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Christian Discussion Thread III