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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:43 am
by Benuty
Othelos wrote:
Benuty wrote:The fact is he didn't exactly come to create a new religion at all. So hiding it would be well..worthless.

If he knew that no one knowing would mean that everyone would be saved he wouldnt have shared

Considering the fire and brimstone damnation is a severe doctrinal mutation he still would have shared.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:49 am
by Irredento
Menassa wrote:
Irredento wrote:That's not the point. I do not want to upset God regardless of what might happen to me. The things I have suffered in my life are nothing compared to the pain He suffered on the cross for our sins.

Not really going to evaluate the pain you've suffered with the pain of your God.

There is nothing I could do with my life that could possibly match not only the pain but the self-sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ on the cross. Absolutely nothing.

The best I can hope to do is be Christlike whenever possible and also emulate the Blessed Virgin Mary in my daily life. It is for this reason that I wear a scapular at all times bearing the image of Blessed Saint Maximilian Kolbe with whom I feel a strong affinity due to my past as not only a Freemason but someone who dabbled with Crowley-inspired "magick" and also as a former drug user. The brown scapular bearing his image is a constant reminder of how I should live and to whom it is that I owe my continued life and the happiness with which I live it now that I have left paganism behind and no longer have a drug problem.

"Immaculata, Queen and Mother of the Church, I renew my consecration to you this day and for always, so that you may use me for the coming of the Kingdom of Jesus in the whole world. To this end, I offer you all my prayers, actions, and sacrifices of this day. Amen."

Menassa wrote:
Irredento wrote:All good Christians remember His sacrifice and will not allow it to have been in vain.

Then let the world be without sin?

Would you prefer that we have no free will and therefore no risk of sinning?

Life without free will is, to me, not life at all but more like a play with a pretedermined beginning, middle, and end in which the actors are trapped all their lives.

Saludong wrote:I think Eastern Catholicism is the same with Eastern Orthodoxy except that its in communion with the Pope.

This is indeed the case. It is my dream to see the us in the West reconcile with our brothers in the East and, when that does finally happen, all of Orthodoxy shall essentially become Eastern Catholic, retaining all their liturgical forms while being in full communion with Rome.

I also hope to someday see all of the ancient churches who share much of our liturgy and dogma, including the Armenians and Copts, and to a lesser extent the Anglicans, especially those of the traditionalist High Church variety, eventually unite with Rome and create one united and holy Catholic Church to which all Christians are called and in which they all have a home.

Now, if you will all excuse me, I must leave to attend Mass and will probably stay behind a while for some private prayer afterward. Thanks for reading and God bless you all.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:04 am
by Leningrad Union
Is Jesuis Christ the French Jesus?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:06 am
by Uieurnthlaal
Leningrad Union wrote:Is Jesuis Christ the French Jesus?

No, it's Jésus Christ.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:08 am
by Leningrad Union
Uieurnthlaal wrote:
Leningrad Union wrote:Is Jesuis Christ the French Jesus?

No, it's Jésus Christ.

I know. Je suis was my joke...

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:11 am
by Uieurnthlaal
Leningrad Union wrote:
Uieurnthlaal wrote:No, it's Jésus Christ.

I know. Je suis was my joke...

Oops. I didn't see that.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:20 pm
by Tarsonis Survivors
Grenartia wrote:
Bundesdeutschland wrote:Again, I reiterate. Evangelizing itself isn't inherently bad; in this case, it's just telling others the Good News and spreading. That's another one of our duties besides acting as an example to others. It's the recipient's choice whether to listen or believe or not. However, when people start becoming like the Spanish Inquisition, that's when it gets too far. (I know I'm toning it up a bit much but hopefully you get my point.) Really as long as you tell the Good News in the way it should (through love and compassion) then it's sure to work.


And again, I reiterate that actively trying to convert people goes against that Golden Rule that Jesus preached about.



Sigh, first of all no it doesn't, it is an exercise of the Golden Rule. The message of Christ is love, and Evangelizing is spreading that message of love. Christ gave the great commission to make disciples of all nations. Thus, Christians are called to evangelize.

However there is a limit as to what is right and wrong. When evangelizing turns into "forced" evangelism, using harassment, hazing, humiliation, and ultimately force, is when it becomes problematic.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:03 pm
by Grenartia
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
And again, I reiterate that actively trying to convert people goes against that Golden Rule that Jesus preached about.



Sigh, first of all no it doesn't, it is an exercise of the Golden Rule. The message of Christ is love, and Evangelizing is spreading that message of love. Christ gave the great commission to make disciples of all nations. Thus, Christians are called to evangelize.

However there is a limit as to what is right and wrong. When evangelizing turns into "forced" evangelism, using harassment, hazing, humiliation, and ultimately force, is when it becomes problematic.


But the Golden Rule tells us to do unto others as we'd have them do unto us. Would anybody here actually say they'd appreciate having somebody actively try to get them to change their religious beliefs?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:06 pm
by Blasveck
Grenartia wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

Sigh, first of all no it doesn't, it is an exercise of the Golden Rule. The message of Christ is love, and Evangelizing is spreading that message of love. Christ gave the great commission to make disciples of all nations. Thus, Christians are called to evangelize.

However there is a limit as to what is right and wrong. When evangelizing turns into "forced" evangelism, using harassment, hazing, humiliation, and ultimately force, is when it becomes problematic.


But the Golden Rule tells us to do unto others as we'd have them do unto us. Would anybody here actually say they'd appreciate having somebody actively try to get them to change their religious beliefs?


If I'm not mistaken, isn't it Catholic (or some other 'popular' denomination) doctrine that conversion is upon the person themselves to convert, not the already faithful believers to convert others?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:16 pm
by Neo Rome Republic
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
And again, I reiterate that actively trying to convert people goes against that Golden Rule that Jesus preached about.



Sigh, first of all no it doesn't, it is an exercise of the Golden Rule. The message of Christ is love, and Evangelizing is spreading that message of love. Christ gave the great commission to make disciples of all nations. Thus, Christians are called to evangelize.

However there is a limit as to what is right and wrong. When evangelizing turns into "forced" evangelism, using harassment, hazing, humiliation, and ultimately force, is when it becomes problematic.

But not everyone see's it as a message of love.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:17 pm
by Grenartia
Blasveck wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
But the Golden Rule tells us to do unto others as we'd have them do unto us. Would anybody here actually say they'd appreciate having somebody actively try to get them to change their religious beliefs?


If I'm not mistaken, isn't it Catholic (or some other 'popular' denomination) doctrine that conversion is upon the person themselves to convert, not the already faithful believers to convert others?


I honestly would not know.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:21 pm
by Blasveck
Grenartia wrote:
Blasveck wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, isn't it Catholic (or some other 'popular' denomination) doctrine that conversion is upon the person themselves to convert, not the already faithful believers to convert others?


I honestly would not know.


*shrugs*

I'm 90 percent certain that the above is part of some mainstream Christian denomination.

Which muddled the issue of the Golden Rule vs Evangelism even further. Who's correct?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:47 pm
by Menassa
Irredento wrote:
Menassa wrote:Not really going to evaluate the pain you've suffered with the pain of your God.

There is nothing I could do with my life that could possibly match not only the pain but the self-sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ on the cross. Absolutely nothing.

The best I can hope to do is be Christlike whenever possible and also emulate the Blessed Virgin Mary in my daily life. It is for this reason that I wear a scapular at all times bearing the image of Blessed Saint Maximilian Kolbe with whom I feel a strong affinity due to my past as not only a Freemason but someone who dabbled with Crowley-inspired "magick" and also as a former drug user. The brown scapular bearing his image is a constant reminder of how I should live and to whom it is that I owe my continued life and the happiness with which I live it now that I have left paganism behind and no longer have a drug problem.

"Immaculata, Queen and Mother of the Church, I renew my consecration to you this day and for always, so that you may use me for the coming of the Kingdom of Jesus in the whole world. To this end, I offer you all my prayers, actions, and sacrifices of this day. Amen."

Okay? Not to say that I am insensitive to your suffering or your tribulations but I said that line rather dismissively, as being a point I wouldn't like to discuss.


Irredento wrote:
Menassa wrote:Then let the world be without sin?

Would you prefer that we have no free will and therefore no risk of sinning?

Life without free will is, to me, not life at all but more like a play with a pretedermined beginning, middle, and end in which the actors are trapped all their lives.

"God is not a man that he should lie..."
So when he says he won't destroy the world again, I believe him... regardless of how bad humans are... surely an omniscient God would know this before making such a deceleration.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:17 pm
by Tarsonis Survivors
NEO Rome Republic wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

Sigh, first of all no it doesn't, it is an exercise of the Golden Rule. The message of Christ is love, and Evangelizing is spreading that message of love. Christ gave the great commission to make disciples of all nations. Thus, Christians are called to evangelize.

However there is a limit as to what is right and wrong. When evangelizing turns into "forced" evangelism, using harassment, hazing, humiliation, and ultimately force, is when it becomes problematic.

But not everyone see's it as a message of love.


That's neither here nor there, If I say to someone "God loves you", it's not my fault if they take it as "Fuck you, Fuckface".

Grenartia wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

Sigh, first of all no it doesn't, it is an exercise of the Golden Rule. The message of Christ is love, and Evangelizing is spreading that message of love. Christ gave the great commission to make disciples of all nations. Thus, Christians are called to evangelize.

However there is a limit as to what is right and wrong. When evangelizing turns into "forced" evangelism, using harassment, hazing, humiliation, and ultimately force, is when it becomes problematic.


But the Golden Rule tells us to do unto others as we'd have them do unto us. Would anybody here actually say they'd appreciate having somebody actively try to get them to change their religious beliefs?


I'm indifferent to that I suppose, I've had Mormons, JW's, Muslims, Baptists, even Orthodox witness to me, and I've never taken offense. In fact, it made for great conversation, and I ended up more informed and educated.

But regardless, stepping out of Christianity for a moment. If there is one concept almost every religion shares, it is this: "Do Good, Receive Good, Do Bad, Receive Bad" Whether you want to call it synergy, Karma, the Golden Rule, Balance, Nirvana, the will of Allah or the immutable mathematics of the Universe, it's a philosophical standard.

Within the sphere of Christianity, The Message of Christ is good, regardless of an outsiders perception of it. Thus spreading the message is good. So, by evangelizing you are doing Good, which ultimately is what the Golden Rule is all about. Do good to others.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:21 pm
by Menassa
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:[...] Thus spreading the message is good. So, by evangelizing you are doing Good, which ultimately is what the Golden Rule is all about. Do good to others.

Is the Golden rule not: "Do unto others as you would want others to do to you?"

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:23 pm
by Tarsonis Survivors
Menassa wrote:
Irredento wrote:There is nothing I could do with my life that could possibly match not only the pain but the self-sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ on the cross. Absolutely nothing.

The best I can hope to do is be Christlike whenever possible and also emulate the Blessed Virgin Mary in my daily life. It is for this reason that I wear a scapular at all times bearing the image of Blessed Saint Maximilian Kolbe with whom I feel a strong affinity due to my past as not only a Freemason but someone who dabbled with Crowley-inspired "magick" and also as a former drug user. The brown scapular bearing his image is a constant reminder of how I should live and to whom it is that I owe my continued life and the happiness with which I live it now that I have left paganism behind and no longer have a drug problem.

"Immaculata, Queen and Mother of the Church, I renew my consecration to you this day and for always, so that you may use me for the coming of the Kingdom of Jesus in the whole world. To this end, I offer you all my prayers, actions, and sacrifices of this day. Amen."

Okay? Not to say that I am insensitive to your suffering or your tribulations but I said that line rather dismissively, as being a point I wouldn't like to discuss.


Irredento wrote:Would you prefer that we have no free will and therefore no risk of sinning?

Life without free will is, to me, not life at all but more like a play with a pretedermined beginning, middle, and end in which the actors are trapped all their lives.

"God is not a man that he should lie..."
So when he says he won't destroy the world again, I believe him... regardless of how bad humans are... surely an omniscient God would know this before making such a deceleration.



He promised he wouldn't curse the ground or kill every living thing, "as long as the Earth Remains." getting into semantics here, the Apocalypse of Revelation is not the destruction of the world, but rather its purification into the New Earth.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:24 pm
by Tarsonis Survivors
Menassa wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:[...] Thus spreading the message is good. So, by evangelizing you are doing Good, which ultimately is what the Golden Rule is all about. Do good to others.

Is the Golden rule not: "Do unto others as you would want others to do to you?"



Yes, and I would want others to do Good unto me.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:25 pm
by Neo Rome Republic
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:Sigh, first of all no it doesn't, it is an exercise of the Golden Rule. The message of Christ is love, and Evangelizing is spreading that message of love. Christ gave the great commission to make disciples of all nations. Thus, Christians are called to evangelize.
However there is a limit as to what is right and wrong. When evangelizing turns into "forced" evangelism, using harassment, hazing, humiliation, and ultimately force, is when it becomes problematic.

NEO Rome Republic wrote:But not everyone see's it as a message of love.

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:That's neither here nor there, If I say to someone "God loves you", it's not my fault if they take it as "Fuck you, Fuckface".

Or could just shut the fuck up where you're not wanted. If people don't want to hear it.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:26 pm
by Benuty
NEO Rome Republic wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:Sigh, first of all no it doesn't, it is an exercise of the Golden Rule. The message of Christ is love, and Evangelizing is spreading that message of love. Christ gave the great commission to make disciples of all nations. Thus, Christians are called to evangelize.

However there is a limit as to what is right and wrong. When evangelizing turns into "forced" evangelism, using harassment, hazing, humiliation, and ultimately force, is when it becomes problematic.

NEO Rome Republic wrote:But not everyone see's it as a message of love.


Tarsonis Survivors wrote:That's neither here nor there, If I say to someone "God loves you", it's not my fault if they take it as "Fuck you, Fuckface".

Or could just shut the fuck up where you're not wanted. If people don't want to listen.

How about no you crazy roman?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:27 pm
by Menassa
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Menassa wrote:Okay? Not to say that I am insensitive to your suffering or your tribulations but I said that line rather dismissively, as being a point I wouldn't like to discuss.



"God is not a man that he should lie..."
So when he says he won't destroy the world again, I believe him... regardless of how bad humans are... surely an omniscient God would know this before making such a deceleration.



He promised he wouldn't curse the ground or kill every living thing, "as long as the Earth Remains." getting into semantics here, the Apocalypse of Revelation is not the destruction of the world, but rather its purification into the New Earth.

Is it written that the Apocalypse of revelation will come about when the world is evil?

Is it not written that after such an Apocalypse the world will live in harmony? Those that survive that is...

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Menassa wrote:Is the Golden rule not: "Do unto others as you would want others to do to you?"



Yes, and I would want others to do Good unto me.

Is there not an objective Good? If I think that humans should have one limb is and I want to saw yours off is that doing Good unto you?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:28 pm
by Neo Rome Republic
Benuty wrote:
NEO Rome Republic wrote:


Or could just shut the fuck up where you're not wanted. If people don't want to listen.

How about no you crazy roman?

lol. I thought a more blunt wording would be a more clear way to convey my point.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:29 pm
by Tarsonis Survivors
Blasveck wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
I honestly would not know.


*shrugs*

I'm 90 percent certain that the above is part of some mainstream Christian denomination.

Which muddled the issue of the Golden Rule vs Evangelism even further. Who's correct?


It's actually all denominations that believe that "Conversion" is on the shoulders of the individual. Evangelism is not the same as "Converting" someone. Converting someone, suggests an overthrow of an individuals mind. This is not the case. Evangelism is simply "Spreading the Good News." It is the individual's right, (given by God) to accept or reject the message. Some more zealous denominations might employ different methods of evangelism, but the conversion is never forced.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:29 pm
by Tarsonis Survivors
NEO Rome Republic wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:Sigh, first of all no it doesn't, it is an exercise of the Golden Rule. The message of Christ is love, and Evangelizing is spreading that message of love. Christ gave the great commission to make disciples of all nations. Thus, Christians are called to evangelize.
However there is a limit as to what is right and wrong. When evangelizing turns into "forced" evangelism, using harassment, hazing, humiliation, and ultimately force, is when it becomes problematic.

NEO Rome Republic wrote:But not everyone see's it as a message of love.

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:That's neither here nor there, If I say to someone "God loves you", it's not my fault if they take it as "Fuck you, Fuckface".

Or could just shut the fuck up where you're not wanted. If people don't want to hear it.



Well, if that's the way you feel, make me shut up.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:31 pm
by Tarsonis Survivors
NEO Rome Republic wrote:
Benuty wrote:How about no you crazy roman?

lol. I thought a more blunt wording would be a more clear way to convey my point.



You're point is worthless, because you speak for no one but yourself.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:33 pm
by Neo Rome Republic
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
NEO Rome Republic wrote:lol. I thought a more blunt wording would be a more clear way to convey my point.



You're point is worthless, because you speak for no one but yourself.

I'm the only one who is Anti-Religious, impressive achievement. If I do say so myself.
I speak for those who don't want to listen, if people on the street don't want to hear a preacher speaking bullshit then he should go, because he is doing nothing but being an annoying fuck.