NationStates

Benuty wrote:

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:I like Cigars, and 12 year old Jameson whiskey. If that's a sin, what pleasure is there in life?

The funeral pyres of your enemies armies.

To see them driven before me? And hear the lamentations of their women?

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:I like Cigars, and 12 year old Jameson whiskey. If that's a sin, what pleasure is there in life?

TF2 and sandviches.

Conscentia wrote:

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:I like Cigars, and 12 year old Jameson whiskey. If that's a sin, what pleasure is there in life?

TF2 and sandviches.

Not a fan of hats.

Esponnise wrote:

Lalaki wrote:What do you guys think of the schisms of the many Christian denominations?

Christ founded His one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church while He was on this earth. He didn't intend 30,000+ denominations.

"One, holy, apostolic and catholic (universal)" was never in the bible.

I doubt that Christ intended his message to be mangled by bureaucratic institutions and hierarchies.

The larger our social institutions become, the more sinful they become. This applies as much to the various manifestations of the church as it does to any other organization.

http://www.firstthings.com/article/2000 ... al-society

Pope Joan wrote:"One, holy, apostolic and catholic (universal)" was never in the bible.

The Church wrote the Bible (well, the New Testament, anyway).

Pope Joan wrote:I doubt that Christ intended his message to be mangled by bureaucratic institutions and hierarchies.

You know, I actually like bureaucratic institutions. Human civilization was built on bureaucracy. Bureaucracy is an attempt to bring order out of chaos, to devise a set of standards and ensure they are applied consistently and uniformly across the board.

Pope Joan wrote:The larger our social institutions become, the more sinful they become.

I don't think this is true. I think the larger our social institutions become, the easier it is to blame them for stuff.

If 100 Catholic priests all commit the same sin at the same time, it's big news, because there is one big institution (the Catholic Church) that can take the blame.

If 10,000 random unrelated people all commit the same sin at the same time, that's ten thousand separate minor incidents, with no single entity to blame, so it's reported only as a bland statistic, if it gets reported at all. People shrug their shoulders and don't care much about it, because there is no one in particular to blame.

Big organizations only seem sinful because there is someone to blame (the organization) for all the sins and transgressions of its members. People outside of big organizations sin just as much, but since there is no single entity to blame for their collective sins, we don't pay attention to them.

Constantinopolis wrote:

Pope Joan wrote:"One, holy, apostolic and catholic (universal)" was never in the bible.

The Church wrote the Bible (well, the New Testament, anyway).

Pope Joan wrote:I doubt that Christ intended his message to be mangled by bureaucratic institutions and hierarchies.

You know, I actually like bureaucratic institutions. Human civilization was built on bureaucracy. Bureaucracy is an attempt to bring order out of chaos, to devise a set of standards and ensure they are applied consistently and uniformly across the board.

Pope Joan wrote:The larger our social institutions become, the more sinful they become.

I don't think this is true. I think the larger our social institutions become, the easier it is to blame them for stuff.

If 100 Catholic priests all commit the same sin at the same time, it's big news, because there is one big institution (the Catholic Church) that can take the blame.

If 10,000 random unrelated people all commit the same sin at the same time, that's ten thousand separate minor incidents, with no single entity to blame, so it's reported only as a bland statistic, if it gets reported at all. People shrug their shoulders and don't care much about it, because there is no one in particular to blame.

Big organizations only seem sinful because there is someone to blame (the organization) for all the sins and transgressions of its members. People outside of big organizations sin just as much, but since there is no single entity to blame for their collective sins, we don't pay attention to them.

You'd make a great capitalist.

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:You'd make a great capitalist.

That's an odd thing to say... My appreciation for large organizations manifests itself in my support for an all-encompassing socialist state.

Constantinopolis wrote:

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:You'd make a great capitalist.

That's an odd thing to say... My appreciation for large organizations manifests itself in my support for an all-encompassing socialist state.

Indeed. Hey, I just want to confirm something. It was Thomas who preached in India, right?

Constantinopolis wrote:

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:You'd make a great capitalist.

That's an odd thing to say... My appreciation for large organizations manifests itself in my support for an all-encompassing socialist state.

Except beaurocracy is a hallmark of capitalism than socialism.

Puerto Tyranus wrote:Hey, I just want to confirm something. It was Thomas who preached in India, right?

Yes, that's correct. St. Thomas preached in Persia and further east, and according to Tradition he reached India. The members of the ancient Christian community in India call themselves "St. Thomas Christians".

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:Except beaurocracy is a hallmark of capitalism than socialism.

It can exist in both. It is a hallmark of certain types of capitalism, and also certain types of socialism.

I'm not saying I like bureaucracy for its own sake, mind you, I'm just saying it has a lot of positive aspects that go largely unrecognized by most people.

Constantinopolis wrote:

Puerto Tyranus wrote:Hey, I just want to confirm something. It was Thomas who preached in India, right?

Yes, that's correct. St. Thomas preached in Persia and further east, and according to Tradition he reached India. The members of the ancient Christian community in India call themselves "St. Thomas Christians".

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:Except beaurocracy is a hallmark of capitalism than socialism.

It can exist in both. It is a hallmark of certain types of capitalism, and also certain types of socialism.

I'm not saying I like bureaucracy for its own sake, mind you, I'm just saying it has a lot of positive aspects that go largely unrecognized by most people.

*Shrug* I support the institutional beauracy inherent I'm the US Constitution.

Socialist Czechia wrote:

The Archregimancy wrote:


So you think opposition to smoking is... bad?

And that this terrible opposition to smoking is somehow a uniquely Christian trait?

And that the entirety of Christianity has consistently shared the same universal motivation for this terribly misguided opposition?

Yup.

There are two main possibilities here.

The first is that your tongue is firmly in cheek, and that your answer in the affirmative is a moment of satirical self-awareness which recognises how silly this argument is.

The second is that you are absolutely serious and wholly in earnest, and that you genuinely believe that the argument is true; in which case it's likely that any atheists lurking in this thread are burying their heads in their hands and silently mouthing "not helping".

Puerto Tyranus wrote:

Constantinopolis wrote:That's an odd thing to say... My appreciation for large organizations manifests itself in my support for an all-encompassing socialist state.

Indeed. Hey, I just want to confirm something. It was Thomas who preached in India, right?

Mar Thomas Church of India has been there for 1500 years. LEGEND that Apostle Thomas started it is more than 500 years old. Church of England has been there for 1500 years. LEGEND that Joseph of Arimathaea started it is more than 500 years old.

The thing exists. It's foundation legend is very old. That is ALL we know.

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

Constantinopolis wrote:That's an odd thing to say... My appreciation for large organizations manifests itself in my support for an all-encompassing socialist state.

Except bureaucracy is a hallmark of capitalism than socialism.

Really? Socialist countries these days have much more bureaucracy. They need it to get services to people. The bigger the government, the bigger the bureaucracy.

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

Constantinopolis wrote:That's an odd thing to say... My appreciation for large organizations manifests itself in my support for an all-encompassing socialist state.

Except beaurocracy is a hallmark of capitalism than socialism.

It's a hallmark of neither, and equally possible under both.
Now return to the topic, sir.

Islamic republiq of Julundar wrote:

Puerto Tyranus wrote:Indeed. Hey, I just want to confirm something. It was Thomas who preached in India, right?

Mar Thomas Church of India has been there for 1500 years. LEGEND that Apostle Thomas started it is more than 500 years old. Church of England has been there for 1500 years. LEGEND that Joseph of Arimathaea started it is more than 500 years old.

The thing exists. It's foundation legend is very old. That is ALL we know.

That's not possible. The Church of England didn't even exist 1500 years ago. It certainly could not have been in India.
As for the legend that Thomas brought Christianity to India, it's much more than 500 years old. The Acts of Thomas, an apocryphal gnostic book which is thought to date from the 3rd century, detail's Thomas' actions in India. According to Wikipedia, other sources mentioning Thomas travelling to India exist, also dating from the 3rd and 4th centuries.

The Flood wrote:

Socialist Czechia wrote:I sent you enough literature about it.
It's all about history how Church didn't agree with smoking mostly because it gave people pleasure without Church's direct control, so they were very long time hostile towards tobacco.
Only money coming from colonies full of tobacco ordered them to stop yell about 'tobacco sin' and accept it.

There are very sound logical reasons for the Church to be against smoking: mainly that it's freaking terrible for you and has no benefits.

In any case, here's a picture of a saint with a cigarette.

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:I like Cigars, and 12 year old Jameson whiskey. If that's a sin, what pleasure is there in life?

Enjoying nature, I'd guess. Not saying it is wrong though, I don't think the Bible mentions anything about cigars specificly.

Al-Orthodoxia wrote:

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:I like Cigars, and 12 year old Jameson whiskey. If that's a sin, what pleasure is there in life?

Enjoying nature, I'd guess. Not saying it is wrong though, I don't think the Bible mentions anything about cigars specificly.

There's something about a temple I believe.

Conscentia wrote:

Islamic republiq of Julundar wrote:Mar Thomas Church of India has been there for 1500 years. LEGEND that Apostle Thomas started it is more than 500 years old. Church of England has been there for 1500 years. LEGEND that Joseph of Arimathaea started it is more than 500 years old.

The thing exists. It's foundation legend is very old. That is ALL we know.

That's not possible. The Church of England didn't even exist 1500 years ago. It certainly could not have been in India.
As for the legend that Thomas brought Christianity to India, it's much more than 500 years old. The Acts of Thomas, an apocryphal gnostic book which is thought to date from the 3rd century, detail's Thomas' actions in India. According to Wikipedia, other sources mentioning Thomas travelling to India exist, also dating from the 3rd and 4th centuries.

OK, way back in 500 AD there was the Church of Wales, Church of Ireland, Church of Scotland, Church of Northumbria, Church of Mercia, Church of Wessex etc.

It certainly could not have been in India.

You misunderstand my analogy.
I never said Church of England founded Church of India.
I was comparing the Thomas founded CoI legend with the Joseph founded CoE legend.

Islamic republiq of Julundar wrote:

Conscentia wrote:That's not possible. The Church of England didn't even exist 1500 years ago. It certainly could not have been in India.
As for the legend that Thomas brought Christianity to India, it's much more than 500 years old. The Acts of Thomas, an apocryphal gnostic book which is thought to date from the 3rd century, detail's Thomas' actions in India. According to Wikipedia, other sources mentioning Thomas travelling to India exist, also dating from the 3rd and 4th centuries.

OK, way back in 500 AD there was the Church of Wales, Church of Ireland, Church of Scotland, Church of Northumbria, Church of Mercia, Church of Wessex etc.

No, there wasn't. None of those entities existed back then (except Ireland), and the English states were pagan (although presumably ruling over a largely Christian Brythonic population) until the 7th century.

Islamic republiq of Julundar wrote:

Puerto Tyranus wrote:Indeed. Hey, I just want to confirm something. It was Thomas who preached in India, right?

Mar Thomas Church of India has been there for 1500 years. LEGEND that Apostle Thomas started it is more than 500 years old. Church of England has been there for 1500 years. LEGEND that Joseph of Arimathaea started it is more than 500 years old.

The thing exists. It's foundation legend is very old. That is ALL we know.

But... I thought Jesus founded the Church of England... haven't you guys heard the song?

Albicia wrote:

Islamic republiq of Julundar wrote:Mar Thomas Church of India has been there for 1500 years. LEGEND that Apostle Thomas started it is more than 500 years old. Church of England has been there for 1500 years. LEGEND that Joseph of Arimathaea started it is more than 500 years old.

The thing exists. It's foundation legend is very old. That is ALL we know.

But... I thought Jesus founded the Church of England... haven't you guys heard the song?

He didn't, actually. His apostles founded the church, along with Paul. Also, they were in the Middle East and parts of Greece and Italy.

Conscentia wrote:

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:I like Cigars, and 12 year old Jameson whiskey. If that's a sin, what pleasure is there in life?

TF2 and sandviches.

And here I thought that the Fourth Lateran Council banned gaming.

Albicia wrote:

Islamic republiq of Julundar wrote:Mar Thomas Church of India has been there for 1500 years. LEGEND that Apostle Thomas started it is more than 500 years old. Church of England has been there for 1500 years. LEGEND that Joseph of Arimathaea started it is more than 500 years old.

The thing exists. It's foundation legend is very old. That is ALL we know.

But... I thought Jesus founded the Church of England... haven't you guys heard the song?

(I'm hoping that this is sarcasm but if not,...)

Are we talking about the Anglican Church of England, or Catholic Archdiocese in England? The Catholic Archdiocese holds back to the 500's but Celtic Christianiy existed as early as the first century. The Anglican Church of England is founded by Horny Henry VIII