Christian Discussion Thread III

[Constantinopolis]

Tarsonis is correct here.

Also, the vast majority of Christian churches accept biological evolution and the Big Bang theory as scientifically correct. In fact, as Distruzio mentioned, the Big Bang theory is really a vindication of the traditional Christian understanding of the universe ("the universe HAD A BEGINNING") as opposed to the old pre-modern atheist view ("the universe ALWAYS EXISTED"). When the Big Bang theory was first proposed, it was criticized as a somewhat quasi-religious perspective.

[Donut section]

Tarsonis is correct here.

Also, the vast majority of Christian churches accept biological evolution and the Big Bang theory as scientifically correct. In fact, as Distruzio mentioned, the Big Bang theory is really a vindication of the traditional Christian understanding of the universe ("the universe HAD A BEGINNING") as opposed to the old pre-modern atheist view ("the universe ALWAYS EXISTED"). When the Big Bang theory was first proposed, it was criticized as a somewhat quasi-religious perspective.

I wouldn't say vindication, it implies that because the universe had a beginning it automatically doesn't disprove some interpretations of The bible.

Also was it an atheistic view that the universe had always existed or a scientific one?
Those of us who are Athiest do not always hold scientific positions.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Tarsonis is correct here.

Also, the vast majority of Christian churches accept biological evolution and the Big Bang theory as scientifically correct. In fact, as Distruzio mentioned, the Big Bang theory is really a vindication of the traditional Christian understanding of the universe ("the universe HAD A BEGINNING") as opposed to the old pre-modern atheist view ("the universe ALWAYS EXISTED"). When the Big Bang theory was first proposed, it was criticized as a somewhat quasi-religious perspective.

I wouldn't say vindication, it implies that because the universe had a beginning it automatically doesn't disprove some interpretations of The bible.

Also was it an atheistic view that the universe had always existed or a scientific one?
Those of us who are Athiest do not always hold scientific positions.

I'm currently writing a disertation about how genesis 1 and our current underastanding of the Universe corelate.

[Neo Rome Republic]

I Don't need faith to prove god doesn't exist.

Actually, you do, philosophically and scientifically the existence of God can neither be definitively proven or disproven. Atheism is defined as a negative belief or lack of belief. A true Atheist doesn't believe in God, but makes no definitive assertion about it. An Anti-theist, doesn't just lack belief, but actively asserts there is no God. This crosses into positive belief, and since such a thing cannot be definitively proven, it an assertion you must make on faith.

Actually Atheism can be defined as both a lack of belief in a God or belief there is no God.
Anti-Theism is opposition to the ideas of Religion and God, believing such ideas are harmful to society and etc.

[Neo Rome Republic]

Tarsonis is correct here.

Also, the vast majority of Christian churches accept biological evolution and the Big Bang theory as scientifically correct. In fact, as Distruzio mentioned, the Big Bang theory is really a vindication of the traditional Christian understanding of the universe ("the universe HAD A BEGINNING") as opposed to the old pre-modern atheist view ("the universe ALWAYS EXISTED"). When the Big Bang theory was first proposed, it was criticized as a somewhat quasi-religious perspective.

I wouldn't say vindication, it implies that because the universe had a beginning it automatically doesn't disprove some interpretations of The bible.

Also was it an atheistic view that the universe had always existed or a scientific one?
Those of us who are Athiest do not always hold scientific positions.

The static eternal universe theory was once the prominent Scientific theory, before the discovery of the Big Bang.
So it was once both a Scientific and Atheistic viewpoint. Though maybe it is still believed by some Atheist.
Though it is no longer Scientific.

[Donut section]

I wouldn't say vindication, it implies that because the universe had a beginning it automatically doesn't disprove some interpretations of The bible.

Also was it an atheistic view that the universe had always existed or a scientific one?
Those of us who are Athiest do not always hold scientific positions.

I'm currently writing a disertation about how genesis 1 and our current underastanding of the Universe corelate.

I would love to read it, whilst I don't believe in a god, I love finding well considered interpretations of beliefs interesting.

It's a part of the human experience and should be preserved and explored, even if I do find it harmful.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Actually, you do, philosophically and scientifically the existence of God can neither be definitively proven or disproven. Atheism is defined as a negative belief or lack of belief. A true Atheist doesn't believe in God, but makes no definitive assertion about it. An Anti-theist, doesn't just lack belief, but actively asserts there is no God. This crosses into positive belief, and since such a thing cannot be definitively proven, it an assertion you must make on faith.

Actually Atheism can be defined as both a lack of belief in a God or belief there is no God.
Anti-Theism is opposition to the ideas of Religion and God, believing such ideas are harmful to society and etc.

Yeah, That's why I clarified later as Anti-Theist Atheist.

[Port blood]

Question:

Can someone please explain Matthew 5:5
"Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth."

Who are the meek and what do they inherit?

[Conscentia]

Question:
Can someone please explain Matthew 5:5
"Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth."
Who are the meek and what do they inherit?

Seems rather self-explanatory.

[Port blood]

Question:
Can someone please explain Matthew 5:5
"Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth."
Who are the meek and what do they inherit?

Seems rather self-explanatory.

Except it isn't....why else would I be asking? I'm not a christian nor have i studied it,this verse strikes me as odd and would like it explained (rather then go straight to conclusions)

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Seems rather self-explanatory.

Except it isn't....why else would I be asking? I'm not a christian nor have i studied it,this verse strikes me as odd and would like it explained (rather then go straight to conclusions)

He said:

3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

These are all lessons on essentially qualities God loves in humanity.

Meek definition: (adj) quiet, gentle, and easily imposed on; submissive.

Jesus called himself meek.


basically it means be gentle, humble, and submissive to God and all will be given to you.

[Conscentia]

Seems rather self-explanatory.

Except it isn't....why else would I be asking? I'm not a christian nor have i studied it,this verse strikes me as odd and would like it explained (rather then go straight to conclusions)

Dictionaries are a thing.

[Constantinopolis]

Question:

Can someone please explain Matthew 5:5
"Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth."

Who are the meek and what do they inherit?

As Tarsonis explained, that verse is part of the Beatitudes, in which Jesus explains the qualities that God loves in Humanity and blesses those who have those qualities. "The meek" are those who are humble, those who live to serve, those who are gentle and caring.

As for the phrase "they will inherit the earth", the Beatitudes poetically describe virtuous people as being rewarded by God with the opposite of what this sinful world gives them. What is the thing that often happens to the meek in this world? They are taken advantage of, trampled upon, ignored, considered unimportant. But in the Kingdom of God, they will be the "inheritors of the world" - like princes inheriting a crown. So the humble and unassuming will be glorified. The last shall be first. God will turn the conventions of our world upside-down.

The inversion of the present order of things, the "turning of the world upside-down", the paradoxical victory-through-defeat, is one of the core themes of Christianity. Christ is tortured, humiliated and executed, but through defeat He is victorious and "tramples down death by death". The instrument of pain, the cross, becomes the symbol of joy and salvation. Christian martyrs, ridiculed and spat upon by those who killed them, are described as having obtained "the crown of martyrdom". We suffer so that we may attain blissful peace. We are humiliated so that we may be glorified. We die so that we may live.

Victory through defeat, joy through pain, glory through humiliation, life through death. These are essential themes of Christianity.

Dictionaries are a thing.

Why are you being unnecessarily rude? I, for one, love answering questions about Christianity. Others here like to answer them as well. If you think a question is too trivial to deserve a reply, don't say anything.

[Conscentia]

Dictionaries are a thing.

Why are you being unnecessarily rude? I, for one, love answering questions about Christianity. Others here like to answer them as well. If you think a question is too trivial to deserve a reply, don't say anything.

I assure you that rudeness was not the intention.
I was replying. If I didn't consider it deserving of a reply I would not have replied.

[Port blood]

So in essence it means "blessed are the caring people,for they will be first in heaven"?

Sorry for being a bit roundabout here,I was having a discussing about this with a religious friend,as i found it weird that they inherit the earth - our earth where we live currently,and I didn't want to spark a fight regarding paradoxes (all the people - both dead and alive wouldn't fit on the earth nor would sustain them) (paradox isn't the right word,but you know what i mean?)

[Tarsonis Survivors]

So in essence it means "blessed are the caring people,for they will be first in heaven"?

Sorry for being a bit roundabout here,I was having a discussing about this with a religious friend,as i found it weird that they inherit the earth - our earth where we live currently,and I didn't want to spark a fight regarding paradoxes (all the people - both dead and alive wouldn't fit on the earth nor would sustain them) (paradox isn't the right word,but you know what i mean?)

It's not a paradox as "inherit the earth" =/= "inherit the Earth". The Greek word here is rhn, which translates to earth or more directly land. It's not saying they'll inherit planet Earth, but rather a poetic way of saying the meek will be full recipients of God's favor, and all his wonders.

[Constantinopolis]

So in essence it means "blessed are the caring people,for they will be first in heaven"?

Basically, yes.

Sorry for being a bit roundabout here,I was having a discussing about this with a religious friend,as i found it weird that they inherit the earth - our earth where we live currently,and I didn't want to spark a fight regarding paradoxes (all the people - both dead and alive wouldn't fit on the earth nor would sustain them) (paradox isn't the right word,but you know what i mean?)

Right. But, well, of course the verse isn't suggesting that humble people will be literally given a legal title of inheritance to the land surface of the Earth on which we currently live. I don't think even the most bone-headed Biblical literalist would interpret it that way.

Having said that, I need to mention something about Heaven and Earth. Christians believe that the current situation of the dead - existing as disembodied spirits in either Heaven or Hell - is a temporary one. At the Second Coming of Christ, all the dead will be resurrected, their souls once again being housed in physical bodies. These "resurrectional bodies" will be recognizable and similar to their old ones, but not biologically the same as ordinary human bodies. They will possess the same qualities that the body of Christ had after His resurrection, which means, among other things, that they will not require food or water. Then, later, after the Last Judgment, people will go to their eternal destination in these bodies, never again being disembodied spirits.

Thus, Heaven and Hell - or at least the post-Second-Coming versions of them, which may or may not be the same things as the pre-Second-Coming versions, depending on your interpretation - are actual physical locations where people will live in actual physical bodies. One or both or neither of them may end up being located on our Earth.

(Also note: Some Christians believe that Heaven and Hell are in fact the same place, where all people objectively experience the same thing but subjectively interpret that thing as either joy or suffering, depending on whether or not they have cooperated with God's grace.)

[Conscentia]

So in essence it means "blessed are the caring people,for they will be first in heaven"?

Sorry for being a bit roundabout here,I was having a discussing about this with a religious friend,as i found it weird that they inherit the earth - our earth where we live currently,and I didn't want to spark a fight regarding paradoxes (all the people - both dead and alive wouldn't fit on the earth nor would sustain them) (paradox isn't the right word,but you know what i mean?)

It's not a paradox as "inherit the earth" =/= "inherit the Earth". The Greek word here is rhn, which translates to earth or more directly land. It's not saying they'll inherit planet Earth, but rather a poetic way of saying the meek will be full recipients of God's favor, and all his wonders.

The greek word is "γην", which transliterates as gen, which translates as land.

[Conscentia]

So in essence it means "blessed are the caring people,for they will be first in heaven"?

Sorry for being a bit roundabout here,I was having a discussing about this with a religious friend,as i found it weird that they inherit the earth - our earth where we live currently,and I didn't want to spark a fight regarding paradoxes (all the people - both dead and alive wouldn't fit on the earth nor would sustain them) (paradox isn't the right word,but you know what i mean?)

Meek doesn't mean "caring". It means submissive.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

It's not a paradox as "inherit the earth" =/= "inherit the Earth". The Greek word here is rhn, which translates to earth or more directly land. It's not saying they'll inherit planet Earth, but rather a poetic way of saying the meek will be full recipients of God's favor, and all his wonders.

The greek word is "γην", which transliterates as gen, which translates as land.

I used a shitty conversion to latin symbols the, But that is the word I was refering to. "γῆν"

[Islamic republiq of Julundar]

Blessed are the Meek for they shall inherit the Earth = the submissive shall be buried 6 foot under the Land.

USA constitution, article 2 = blessed are the armed, for they shall own the Land at ground level.

[Grave_n_idle]

Eastern Orthodox but I am actually an atheist anti theist

I always found Anti-theism amusing. I mean, atheism I get, having a lack of a belief makes sense. But anti-theism, crosses the line into a positive belief of no God. Which, if philosophy and logic are correct, is an idea that must be taken on faith.

I agree. That's why most non-theists are atheists, rather than anti-theists. It's illogical to reject one kind belief that can only be justified by faith, and replace it with another equally strong statement of faith.

[Grave_n_idle]

Oh so I suppose evolution and the big bang never happened then...

Yeah...I do not need faith to not believe in fairytales.

CTALNH... that's not what he is saying. Read the actual text (nevermind that the big bang was originally dismissed as "creationist nonsense" by the scientific community) he typed. He is saying that in order to deny the existence of God to the point that you actively advocate against any expression of faith in that existence one exhibits a certain faithful expression of opposition.

He is saying that by denying the existence of God you pronounce faith that God doesn't exist.

Atheists take the more appropriate approach to a lack of belief... their view is, essentially, that until the existence of God is proven I will conduct myself as though God does not exist.

Not even that, to be honest. In terms of a moral code and following scriptural lessons, for example, I (personally) live a life that would be described as being pretty hardcore Christian. Far more 'extreme' than most of the actual Christians I know. The only place where I diverge hard from that model, is in the actual believing-in-a-god thing.

[Islamic republiq of Julundar]

I always found Anti-theism amusing. I mean, atheism I get, having a lack of a belief makes sense. But anti-theism, crosses the line into a positive belief of no God. Which, if philosophy and logic are correct, is an idea that must be taken on faith.

I agree. That's why most non-theists are atheists, rather than anti-theists. It's illogical to reject one kind belief that can only be justified by faith, and replace it with another equally strong statement of faith.

Richard Dawkins qualifies as an Anti-Theist: he asserts that Religion has done more harm than good.

Most Atheists say "We believe the True Dogma and you believe a False Dogma."

[Farnhamia]

I agree. That's why most non-theists are atheists, rather than anti-theists. It's illogical to reject one kind belief that can only be justified by faith, and replace it with another equally strong statement of faith.

Richard Dawkins qualifies as an Anti-Theist: he asserts that Religion has done more harm than good.

Most Atheists say "We believe the True Dogma and you believe a False Dogma."

Most atheists say, "There is no god or gods." Nothing to do with dogma.