Christian Discussion Thread III

[Socialist Czechia]

Because hearing myself say all the bullshit I've done out loud kinda makes me feel just a little less like a dick.

What about to talk about problems with friends and family or your love rather than to God, who obviously can not surprised by your bullshit's, since he knows everything?

Talking to invisible persons is not healthy. Not at all.



Yes, couldn't resist.

Uh huh. You know, repeating yourself as though I didn't already address what you said isn't a good way to score points or turn the commentary in your favor. It's theologically central to Christian belief to accept and perpetuate the belief that we each are insignificant. We kinda get it. You're not telling us something revolutionary at all. Christians have been believing this schtick for 2000 years. Hell, do you know of any other faith that says, "yeah... God is great and all - you know, loves everyone and forgives them their trespasses - and I believe in Him but He likes the Jews better than me"? Does that sound like a faith that is suggesting that it is the premised on the belief that it has inherited a special status from God?

And you still missed the point. *sigh* So again. When you have belief with one-true-your-all-God, no matter any cosmetic-philosophic stuff around Him, fact of having Him is making you special, like part of something. Even when that something claims that one person is not important, it means person is still something.
Got it?

Am I finally getting through, or you'll still play same soundtrack?

[Distruzio]

Because hearing myself say all the bullshit I've done out loud kinda makes me feel just a little less like a dick.

What about to talk about problems with friends and family or your love rather than to God, who obviously can not surprised by your bullshit's, since he knows everything?

Who suggested that doing that doesn't count as praying?

Talking to invisible persons is not healthy. Not at all.

Says the guy typing out posts on the interwebz?

Yes, couldn't resist.

Praying to God isn't really about expecting an answer. Few expect an answer. What they're doing is far more simple than you're trying to suggest. They pray to avoid internalizing the issues that plague them. Its a way to ameliorate guilt and a way to cope with mental strain.

When one prays for help with an antecedent issue, one is not praying for intervention, per se. One is praying for the patience to deal with issues - they're taking a moment to breathe and reassess the issue.

I've never met a Christian who believed in an invisible person. Have you? Or is it something you're making up?

[Dangelia]

Because hearing myself say all the bullshit I've done out loud kinda makes me feel just a little less like a dick.

What about to talk about problems with friends and family or your love rather than to God, who obviously can not surprised by your bullshit's, since he knows everything?

Talking to invisible persons is not healthy. Not at all.



Yes, couldn't resist.

Because if you can't even understand yourself, how could you expect your family to. Only God fully understands you. And when you said, talk to your love. Well, God is my love.

[Socialist Czechia]

What about to talk about problems with friends and family or your love rather than to God, who obviously can not surprised by your bullshit's, since he knows everything?

Talking to invisible persons is not healthy. Not at all.



Yes, couldn't resist.

Because if you can't even understand yourself, how could you expect your family to. Only God fully understands you. And when you said, talk to your love. Well, God is my love.

That awkward moment, when you realize how free will is badly affected by religious indoctrination, which totally isn't to laugh anymore...

[Socialist Czechia]

I've never met a Christian who believed in an invisible person.

Every Christian must believe in invisible person. If they do not, they are not Christian. Simple as that.

God is invisible person, since you can't simply point your finger and tell me 'that's that dude!'.

[Distruzio]

I've never met a Christian who believed in an invisible person.

Every Christian must believe in invisible person. If they do not, they are not Christian. Simple as that.

God is invisible person, since you can't simply point your finger and tell me 'that's that dude!'.

Jesus is God. Jesus isn't invisible. I don't think you're aware of what it is you're trying to mock.

[Socialist Czechia]

Every Christian must believe in invisible person. If they do not, they are not Christian. Simple as that.

God is invisible person, since you can't simply point your finger and tell me 'that's that dude!'.

Jesus is God. Jesus isn't invisible. I don't think you're aware of what it is you're trying to mock.

There is not much proof that person called 'Jesus' existed at all, so I must assume he's fictional character as well. Sorry. That's a matter of fact.

Try to prove that any thirty-years old dude doing miracles in the Middle East existed, I dare you.

How old is oldest Bible? Can you show me any literature around Jesus's lifetime about him? Any pictures?

[Distruzio]

Jesus is God. Jesus isn't invisible. I don't think you're aware of what it is you're trying to mock.

There is not much proof that person called 'Jesus' existed at all, so I must assume he's fictional character as well. Sorry. That's a matter of fact.

Try to prove that any thirty-years old dude doing miracles in the Middle East existed, I dare you.

Can you prove he is invisible?

[Socialist Czechia]

There is not much proof that person called 'Jesus' existed at all, so I must assume he's fictional character as well. Sorry. That's a matter of fact.

Try to prove that any thirty-years old dude doing miracles in the Middle East existed, I dare you.

Can you prove he is invisible?

I was talking about a God, not Jesus. Since you can not show me a God, and I can not say for sure he doesn't exist he's apparently invisible. Any other explanation?

But Jesus, that's different matter. There is claim that he was a living man, who physically existed and walked on Earth, so there should be some physical evidence about him.

Is there?

[Distruzio]

Can you prove he is invisible?

I was talking about a God, not Jesus. Since you can not show me a God, and I can not say for sure he doesn't exist he's apparently invisible. Any other explanation?

Maybe you're looking in the wrong direction? I dunno. I just know that no Christian prays to an invisible man. We pray to a clearly visible man - or at least he was visible before the ascension.

But Jesus, that's different matter. There is claim that he was a living man, who physically existed and walked on Earth, so there should be some physical evidence about him.

Is there?

Couldn't say. I don't recall making that claim.

What evidence would you find compelling? I'm sorry to admit that I can't provide you a picture of him. Then again, I can't provide a picture of George Washington either - only paintings and documented accounts. The fact that you attempt to cast doubt about his existence suggests that you wouldn't accept just any documented accounts which, itself, suggests that you consider some accounts invalid.

What evidence would you find compelling?

[Socialist Czechia]

I was talking about a God, not Jesus. Since you can not show me a God, and I can not say for sure he doesn't exist he's apparently invisible. Any other explanation?

Maybe you're looking in the wrong direction? I dunno. I just know that no Christian prays to an invisible man. We pray to a clearly visible man - or at least he was visible before the ascension.

But Jesus, that's different matter. There is claim that he was a living man, who physically existed and walked on Earth, so there should be some physical evidence about him.

Is there?

Couldn't say. I don't recall making that claim.

What evidence would you find compelling? I'm sorry to admit that I can't provide you a picture of him. Then again, I can't provide a picture of George Washington either - only paintings and documented accounts. The fact that you attempt to cast doubt about his existence suggests that you wouldn't accept just any documented accounts which, itself, suggests that you consider some accounts invalid.

What evidence would you find compelling?

Tell me if I am not correct, but God existed before Jesus, right? So Jesus was just very short, very short adventure to him (very boring adventure, though, since God knew it already what will happen to him), and totally not important for Earth, Galaxy or Universe, just for a few local primates.
Perhaps he was visible there (if Jesus and stuff around him happened at all) but he's mostly not visible and for virtually all Christians he's not visible ergo he's invisible.

Evidence? Any text from same times, not older than 50-100 years after his presumed death and ascension, which mentioning directly him, any his miracle or people he taught and are perhaps mentioned in Bible too. Anything like that?

[Dangelia]

Can you prove he is invisible?

I was talking about a God, not Jesus. Since you can not show me a God, and I can not say for sure he doesn't exist he's apparently invisible. Any other explanation?

But Jesus, that's different matter. There is claim that he was a living man, who physically existed and walked on Earth, so there should be some physical evidence about him.

Is there?

Yes, he has been recorded by Josephus, a Jewish Historian. Most scholars agree that Jesus was in fact a real man. Only a very small fringe group believe otherwise (and it seems all the fringe groups are located in NS)

[Socialist Czechia]

I was talking about a God, not Jesus. Since you can not show me a God, and I can not say for sure he doesn't exist he's apparently invisible. Any other explanation?

But Jesus, that's different matter. There is claim that he was a living man, who physically existed and walked on Earth, so there should be some physical evidence about him.

Is there?

Yes, he has been recorded by Josephus, a Jewish Historian. Most scholars agree that Jesus was in fact a real man. Only a very small fringe group believe otherwise (and it seems all the fringe groups are located in NS)

Repeated lies are often changed to truth, because truth would cause chaos.

Just imagine, hypothetically, that it's all lie. Can you even imagine that? That everything is lie? Fiction? That Jesus was never more real than Rowling's Harry Potter?

[Mostrov]

But Jesus, that's different matter. There is claim that he was a living man, who physically existed and walked on Earth, so there should be some physical evidence about him.

Is there?

What about Socrates? I can think of innumerable figures who we take for granted their existence who we can't provide a shred of evidence aside from hearsay. And considering that during his lifetime Christ would have been a minor figure, there is exactly about as much evidence as you would expect for the head of a Jewish sect.

While it may be passé to decry Christ's existence, it doesn't really prove a point except that you just want to find justification for denunciation.

[Distruzio]

Maybe you're looking in the wrong direction? I dunno. I just know that no Christian prays to an invisible man. We pray to a clearly visible man - or at least he was visible before the ascension.



Couldn't say. I don't recall making that claim.

What evidence would you find compelling? I'm sorry to admit that I can't provide you a picture of him. Then again, I can't provide a picture of George Washington either - only paintings and documented accounts. The fact that you attempt to cast doubt about his existence suggests that you wouldn't accept just any documented accounts which, itself, suggests that you consider some accounts invalid.

What evidence would you find compelling?

Tell me if I am not correct, but God existed before Jesus, right?

No. You're incorrect. Jesus is God. Always was.

Evidence? Any text from same times, not older than 50-100 years after his presumed death and ascension, which mentioning directly him, any his miracle or people he taught and are perhaps mentioned in Bible. Anything like that?

Ah... well, I'm unsure that discussion would be allowed here as there have been contentions raised by moderators before that the historicity of Jesus is not, necessarily, the topic of the thread. I'd rather avoid a warning.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Here here.

murder - kill (someone) unlawfully and with premeditation.

abortion is legal, therefore not murder.

Cause the law is always right. Let's see what constituted murder 160 years ago.

[Distruzio]

Yes, he has been recorded by Josephus, a Jewish Historian. Most scholars agree that Jesus was in fact a real man. Only a very small fringe group believe otherwise (and it seems all the fringe groups are located in NS)

Repeated lies are often changed to truth, because truth would cause chaos.

Just imagine, hypothetically, that it's all lie. Can you even imagine that? That everything is lie? Fiction? That Jesus was never more real than Rowling's Harry Potter?

Absolutely. It wouldn't change a thing for Christians.

[Distruzio]

murder - kill (someone) unlawfully and with premeditation.

abortion is legal, therefore not murder.

Cause the law is always right. Let's see what constituted murder 160 years ago.

I don't think that Daenemark is claiming a value judgment on the law. I think they are merely stating what the law is.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

And what about the children who don't have a voice for themselves. The numbers of babies killed through abortion makes mass Genocides look like they're just manslaughter. It's horrible.

They aren't fully Human yet if they are embryo's, so no, it is not genocide.

And it doesn't matter what your opinion is. As I said earlier, you cannot tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her own body.

If they're not fully human? What are they? The worst crimes in history were possible because people believed others not fully human.

[Jumalariik]

Sure, people have the free will to choose, that doesn't mean they have the right, or that they should be allowed by other people to do something. If that thing is murder, then the law should definitely stand in their way.

The law does not define abortion as murder.

Oh come on, "We must obey God not men," oh wait, a protestant who doesn't believe in the Bible.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Ugh the flawed logic. people who decry slavery as a moral evil, are making the case that anything is okay if it's legal. Fuck it. Pulling out of this one. Gonna go crawl into a bottle of bourbon

[Socialist Czechia]

But Jesus, that's different matter. There is claim that he was a living man, who physically existed and walked on Earth, so there should be some physical evidence about him.

Is there?

What about Socrates? I can think of innumerable figures who we take for granted their existence who we can't provide a shred of evidence aside from hearsay. And considering that during his lifetime Christ would have been a minor figure, there is exactly about as much evidence as you would expect for the head of a Jewish sect.

While it may be passé to decry Christ's existence, it doesn't really prove a point except that you just want to find justification for denunciation.

Many scholars in his time or soon after his death mentioned him, there are even his statues with his face and name.
So your comparison is incorrect.

Do you people knows something about Horus? His story is INCREDIBLY similar to Jesus's, and much older. Son of god, exactly same miracles, sacrificed himself for a humanity.

And there are few other gods, which could claim their copyright on Jesus's story. Like Mithra.

I am asking you. What. If. It's. All. Lie? If you can not even imagine that possibility, it's the reason why it doesn't matter if it's truth.

How do you know that 'Jesus' isn't fictional character created by some manipulative 'prophet' who claimed things which were perhaps partially true (to not raise so much suspicions...but I guess in ancient times it doesn't matter so much like today) and his cult had simply luck and became powerful?

[Distruzio]

And you still missed the point. *sigh* So again. When you have belief with one-true-your-all-God, no matter any cosmetic-philosophic stuff around Him, fact of having Him is making you special, like part of something. Even when that something claims that one person is not important, it means person is still something.
Got it?

Am I finally getting through, or you'll still play same soundtrack?

That's a question you should ask yourself, SC. Because you're trying to claim Christianity elevates the individual on the basis that the individual is special. It doesn't. It does the precise opposite.

[Socialist Czechia]

Repeated lies are often changed to truth, because truth would cause chaos.

Just imagine, hypothetically, that it's all lie. Can you even imagine that? That everything is lie? Fiction? That Jesus was never more real than Rowling's Harry Potter?

Absolutely. It wouldn't change a thing for Christians.

Are you sure about that? What if you know - for sure - that there is somewhere totally legit proof that he's just a fiction. Would you allow it to be widely known fact?
Do you think Christianity would dealt with that truth peacefully? Just like that?

Many of them would never believe it, despite seeing the truth. Rest of them would abandon the Church. Forever.

[Distruzio]

What about Socrates? I can think of innumerable figures who we take for granted their existence who we can't provide a shred of evidence aside from hearsay. And considering that during his lifetime Christ would have been a minor figure, there is exactly about as much evidence as you would expect for the head of a Jewish sect.

While it may be passé to decry Christ's existence, it doesn't really prove a point except that you just want to find justification for denunciation.

Many scholars in his time or soon after his death mentioned him, there are even his statues with his face and name.
So your comparison is incorrect.

Do you people knows something about Horus? His story is INCREDIBLY similar to Jesus's, and much older. Son of god, exactly same miracles, sacrificed himself for a humanity.

And there are few other gods, which could claim their copyright on Jesus's story. Like Mithra.

I am asking you. What. If. It's. All. Lie? If you can not even imagine that possibility, it's the reason why it doesn't matter if it's truth.

How do you know that 'Jesus' isn't fictional character created by some manipulative 'prophet' who claimed things which were perhaps partially true (to not raise so much suspicions...but I guess in ancient times it doesn't matter so much like today) and his cult had simply luck and became powerful?

Zeitgeist? Really?