Christian Discussion Thread III

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Well as evidenced by Dangelia here, I used scripture to IMHO, completely shred the Orthodox Church's view on the Papacy and the Filioque, to the point where Dangelia was unable to respond and I later found him rocking in the corner, muttering something about a machete.

It's a matter of interpretation, really. I don't see the argument that because Christ says He sends the Spirit that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, and frankly I think it just creates the potential for heresy...

It's not a massive theological issue, but perhaps more problematic than its dogmatic implications is its unilateral insertion in to the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed by the West, without the approval of an ecumenical council. That's especially troubling to the Orthodox.

My last post here before I need sleep. The problem here is an ambiguity between Latin and Greek. The Filioque being latin, uses teh word procedere which litterally means Go. and with the conjugated word being procedit which translates literally proceedes, but more accurately means go/come from. It reinforces the nature of the Trinity that the Holy Spirit comes to us from the Father through the Son. It's not redundant, it fixes an oversight.

It is also important to note that the word procedere in Latin is closer to the meaning of the word προϊέναι rather than the word ἐκπορεύεσθαι.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Well as evidenced by Dangelia here, I used scripture to IMHO, completely shred the Orthodox Church's view on the Papacy and the Filioque, to the point where Dangelia was unable to respond and I later found him rocking in the corner, muttering something about a machete.

I don't wanna get deep in those arguments yet. Because, what's gonna happen is this. U give evidence, I give counter evidence. And we go on and on. Then we get tired. And that's the end (sometimes there's hard feelings).

Hard feelings, hence you fixating on the machete.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Well as evidenced by Dangelia here, I used scripture to IMHO, completely shred the Orthodox Church's view on the Papacy and the Filioque, to the point where Dangelia was unable to respond and I later found him rocking in the corner, muttering something about a machete.

It's a matter of interpretation, really. I don't see the argument that because Christ says He sends the Spirit that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, and frankly I think it just creates the potential for heresy...

It's not a massive theological issue, but perhaps more problematic than its dogmatic implications is its unilateral insertion in to the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed by the West, without the approval of an ecumenical council. That's especially troubling to the Orthodox.

as for the ecumenical council. Christ gave Peter sole authority, while only giving the Disciples Co-authority. Peter (Pope) doesn't have to consult the council.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

okay, NOW bed.

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

IIRC protestants believe in premillennialism?

Most Protestants are pre-tribulation Premillennialists. However, some are post-tribulation Premillennialists. Few are Postmillennialists.

I haven't met any people who debate either doctrine spiritedly, but the people that take up serious arms about the difference between the first two doctrines must have serious neckbeards, because there's very, very little scripturally to make an argument one way or the other. It's hard to argue for Postmillenialism, but at the same time, all three have the same beginning and end - God reigns supreme.

So, like, 1 Cor. 3:4.

Also, this thing:

http://adam4d.com/bad-theology/

[Leningrad Union]

Why do Christians wear necklaces with the letter t on them?

[Agritum]

Why do Christians wear necklaces with the letter t on them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tau_Cross

[DrakoLand]

Why do Christians wear necklaces with the letter t on them?

[The Holy Church of Arius]

My last post here before I need sleep. The problem here is an ambiguity between Latin and Greek. The Filioque being latin, uses teh word procedere which litterally means Go. and with the conjugated word being procedit which translates literally proceedes, but more accurately means go/come from. It reinforces the nature of the Trinity that the Holy Spirit comes to us from the Father through the Son. It's not redundant, it fixes an oversight.

It is also important to note that the word procedere in Latin is closer to the meaning of the word προϊέναι rather than the word ἐκπορεύεσθαι.

The Holy Spirit "proceeds" from the Father. Regarding the creation, God said to sent the Son and the Holy Spirit. In Latin the word processio concerns also the mission (which according to Orthodox theology becomes the Son) and the emanation (concerning only the Father) of the Spirit, this idiom is what causes the misunderstanding.

[Archegnum]

*Sigh*

I'm getting a load of grief from my friend, who keeps calling me homophobic and without tolerance, and claiming Christianity is persecutive. He even said that Christianity was like Nazism because we apparently persecuted Jews at one point. From what the Bible says, I'm pretty sure it was the other way round.

I'm not homophobic, I just disagree with the concept because of Sodom and Gomorrah and the law that says 'A man shall not lie with another man, it is perversion.'. Anyone have any ideas of how to stop his insults?

[Leningrad Union]

*Sigh*

I'm getting a load of grief from my friend, who keeps calling me homophobic and without tolerance, and claiming Christianity is persecutive. He even said that Christianity was like Nazism because we apparently persecuted Jews at one point. From what the Bible says, I'm pretty sure it was the other way round.

I'm not homophobic, I just disagree with the concept because of Sodom and Gomorrah and the law that says 'A man shall not lie with another man, it is perversion.'. Anyone have any ideas of how to stop his insults?

The Catholic Church was an antisemitic organization.

[Conscentia]

*Sigh*

I'm getting a load of grief from my friend, who keeps calling me homophobic and without tolerance, and claiming Christianity is persecutive. He even said that Christianity was like Nazism because we apparently persecuted Jews at one point. From what the Bible says, I'm pretty sure it was the other way round.

I'm not homophobic, I just disagree with the concept because of Sodom and Gomorrah and the law that says 'A man shall not lie with another man, it is perversion.'. Anyone have any ideas of how to stop his insults?

Sodom & Gomorrah had nothing to do with homosexuality.

[Nuverikstan]

*Sigh*

I'm getting a load of grief from my friend, who keeps calling me homophobic and without tolerance, and claiming Christianity is persecutive. He even said that Christianity was like Nazism because we apparently persecuted Jews at one point. From what the Bible says, I'm pretty sure it was the other way round.

I'm not homophobic, I just disagree with the concept because of Sodom and Gomorrah and the law that says 'A man shall not lie with another man, it is perversion.'. Anyone have any ideas of how to stop his insults?

You could stop him from breathing. Just kidding, but you probably won't change his view. I have tried so many times and they all still say I am homophobic. So what I do is just stay away from homosexuality and people who support it.

[Nuverikstan]

*Sigh*

I'm getting a load of grief from my friend, who keeps calling me homophobic and without tolerance, and claiming Christianity is persecutive. He even said that Christianity was like Nazism because we apparently persecuted Jews at one point. From what the Bible says, I'm pretty sure it was the other way round.

I'm not homophobic, I just disagree with the concept because of Sodom and Gomorrah and the law that says 'A man shall not lie with another man, it is perversion.'. Anyone have any ideas of how to stop his insults?

Sodom & Gomorrah had nothing to do with homosexuality.

It actually did. Here is the verse.

19 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.”

“No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

[Pope Joan]

It's a matter of interpretation, really. I don't see the argument that because Christ says He sends the Spirit that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, and frankly I think it just creates the potential for heresy...

It's not a massive theological issue, but perhaps more problematic than its dogmatic implications is its unilateral insertion in to the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed by the West, without the approval of an ecumenical council. That's especially troubling to the Orthodox.

as for the ecumenical council. Christ gave Peter sole authority, while only giving the Disciples Co-authority. Peter (Pope) doesn't have to consult the council.

And that also is a matter of interpretation. My sect believes that when Jesus says "On this Rock" he refers to the faithful confession of Christ that Peter just made. It was after this event that Jesus said Satan was sifting Peter like wheat; he certainly acted more like sand than rock at the time of the Crucifixion.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

My last post here before I need sleep. The problem here is an ambiguity between Latin and Greek. The Filioque being latin, uses teh word procedere which litterally means Go. and with the conjugated word being procedit which translates literally proceedes, but more accurately means go/come from. It reinforces the nature of the Trinity that the Holy Spirit comes to us from the Father through the Son. It's not redundant, it fixes an oversight.

It is also important to note that the word procedere in Latin is closer to the meaning of the word προϊέναι rather than the word ἐκπορεύεσθαι.

The Holy Spirit "proceeds" from the Father. Regarding the creation, God said to sent the Son and the Holy Spirit. In Latin the word processio concerns also the mission (which according to Orthodox theology becomes the Son) and the emanation (concerning only the Father) of the Spirit, this idiom is what causes the misunderstanding.

Processio is a noun not a verb. Precedit is the conjugated form of procedere, not processio. You're point is irrelevant.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

as for the ecumenical council. Christ gave Peter sole authority, while only giving the Disciples Co-authority. Peter (Pope) doesn't have to consult the council.

And that also is a matter of interpretation. My sect believes that when Jesus says "On this Rock" he refers to the faithful confession of Christ that Peter just made. It was after this event that Jesus said Satan was sifting Peter like wheat; he certainly acted more like sand than rock at the time of the Crucifixion.

You're ignoring the next two verses.

[Serrland]

as for the ecumenical council. Christ gave Peter sole authority, while only giving the Disciples Co-authority. Peter (Pope) doesn't have to consult the council.

And that also is a matter of interpretation. My sect believes that when Jesus says "On this Rock" he refers to the faithful confession of Christ that Peter just made. It was after this event that Jesus said Satan was sifting Peter like wheat; he certainly acted more like sand than rock at the time of the Crucifixion.

Acting "more like sand than rock" (a good way of putting it) was in fulfillment of prophecy, though, per Matthew 26:34 : "Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice."

Which raises a point I've been mildly curious about: would Peter denying him thrice be a predestined event?

[Tarsonis Survivors]

And that also is a matter of interpretation. My sect believes that when Jesus says "On this Rock" he refers to the faithful confession of Christ that Peter just made. It was after this event that Jesus said Satan was sifting Peter like wheat; he certainly acted more like sand than rock at the time of the Crucifixion.

Acting "more like sand than rock" (a good way of putting it) was in fulfillment of prophecy, though, per Matthew 26:34 : "Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice."

Which raises a point I've been mildly curious about: would Peter denying him thrice be a predestined event?

There is no spoon.

[Grenartia]

*Sigh*

I'm getting a load of grief from my friend, who keeps calling me homophobic and without tolerance, and claiming Christianity is persecutive. He even said that Christianity was like Nazism because we apparently persecuted Jews at one point. From what the Bible says, I'm pretty sure it was the other way round.

I'm not homophobic, I just disagree with the concept because of Sodom and Gomorrah and the law that says 'A man shall not lie with another man, it is perversion.'. Anyone have any ideas of how to stop his insults?

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of inhospitality and refusing to help the poor and needy, not consensual homosexuality (which wasn't even what the whole deal with the men of Sodom and the angels was about, as it was an act of attempted RAPE, and thus not applicable to consensual homosexuality, any more than a prohibition against man raping a woman is applicable to consensual heterosexuality). Look it up. Ezekiel 16:49. You'll find absolutely no mention of gay sex there.

Ironically, this means that all those fundie claims that America is turning into a modern-day Sodom are true. Just not in the way they think it is.

Also, what do two outdated verses that don't even apply to Christianity have to do with anything? I mean, if you've ever eaten a ham and cheese sandwich, or bacon, or shrimp, or crawfish, or worn a cotton/wool blend T shirt, or eaten food grown by farmers who practice the environmentally-friendly and agriculturally responsible act of crop rotation (which if you live in America, is practically guaranteed), then you've no real legitimacy behind using those two verses to condemn homosexuality.

Sodom & Gomorrah had nothing to do with homosexuality.

It actually did. Here is the verse.

19 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.”

“No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

Again, doesn't refer to consensual, committed homosexuality. Unless you want to argue that the angels actually wanted to have a massive orgy with the men of Sodom, but then that would inherently carry certain implications that God has nothing against homosexuality.

[Serrland]

Acting "more like sand than rock" (a good way of putting it) was in fulfillment of prophecy, though, per Matthew 26:34 : "Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice."

Which raises a point I've been mildly curious about: would Peter denying him thrice be a predestined event?

There is no spoon.

On something like that, whether it really happened (assuming it's a Matrix reference you're making?) as recorded in the Book of Matthew isn't as interesting to me as how it is interpreted and developed in the various belief system's of the world's most practiced religion. Which is why I find the question of whether it is a matter of predestination or prophetic foresight to be interesting.

[Grand Longueville]

*Sigh*

I'm getting a load of grief from my friend, who keeps calling me homophobic and without tolerance, and claiming Christianity is persecutive. He even said that Christianity was like Nazism because we apparently persecuted Jews at one point. From what the Bible says, I'm pretty sure it was the other way round.

I'm not homophobic, I just disagree with the concept because of Sodom and Gomorrah and the law that says 'A man shall not lie with another man, it is perversion.'. Anyone have any ideas of how to stop his insults?

The Catholic Church was an antisemitic organization.

How was Holy Mother Church an antisemitic organization?

[Benuty]

*Sigh*

I'm getting a load of grief from my friend, who keeps calling me homophobic and without tolerance, and claiming Christianity is persecutive. He even said that Christianity was like Nazism because we apparently persecuted Jews at one point. From what the Bible says, I'm pretty sure it was the other way round.

I'm not homophobic, I just disagree with the concept because of Sodom and Gomorrah and the law that says 'A man shall not lie with another man, it is perversion.'. Anyone have any ideas of how to stop his insults?

Sodom & Gomorrah had nothing to do with homosexuality.

If you believe they existed (I didn't say anything about them not existing).

[Bundesdeutschland]

The Catholic Church was an antisemitic organization.

How was Holy Mother Church an antisemitic organization?

This will be one of the only times I will ever mention the Crusades. Unfortunately.

[Benuty]

How was Holy Mother Church an antisemitic organization?

This will be one of the only times I will ever mention the Crusades. Unfortunately.

The bubonic plague anyone?