Non-binary genders

[Novsvacro]

The fact that people say they are should be enough evidence. Trust me if you don't believe in something, people will still be it no matter what.

[Frisbeeteria]

Fascist bigot

Let me correct myself

Intolerant, backwoodsy asshat

Let me correct you:

*** Warned for flaming ***

Go read the rules of these forums before posting again, or I predict a short visit before your ultimate ban.

[Neutraligon]

f someone fulfills that definition, then why deny it. Again the definition of what is a man and what is a woman is by in large contested. The definition of human, is not. That is the reason those who identify as some other species cannot be that other species. The definition of human verse some other species is clear. Even if the philosophical question of what humanity is is questionable. Similarly the question of what is a man and what is a woman is much more complicated because the definition is not clear, it is not precise. Thus, it is very easy to think that people can be both, neither or something else.

If a clear definition was all it took to convince people they were what they were there wouldn't BE any vampires.

That statement makes o sense. What is a man? What does it mean to be a man? What is a woman? What does it mean to be a woman? What is a third gender? What does it mean to be a third gender? These are questions that have no clear answer. A vampire on the other-hand has a pretty clear definition at the most basic, that is a creature that drinks blood for sustenance(could be a bat, could be a bird, could be a human). If those who claim to be vampires do not fulfill this most basic of definitions, then they cannot be vampires.

[Des-Bal]

The fact that people say they are should be enough evidence. Trust me if you don't believe in something, people will still be it no matter what.

People say they're vampires, whales, and other things they transparently are not.

[Tubbsalot]

well, it's more like if I see a man, I instantly and irrevocably identify them as one of the male gender. It's just easier that way, subconsciously.

So in your opinion, first impressions based on your guesses should always be treated as superior to actual facts?

When you see a person, you immediately assume they have no cancer, and if they tell you they have cancer you tell them they're wrong?

[Des-Bal]

That statement makes o sense. What is a man? What does it mean to be a man? What is a woman? What does it mean to be a woman? What is a third gender? What does it mean to be a third gender? These are questions that have no clear answer. A vampire on the other-hand has a pretty clear definition at the most basic, that is a creature that drinks blood for sustenance(could be a bat, could be a bird, could be a human). If those who claim to be vampires do not fulfill this most basic of definitions, then they cannot be vampires.

And clearly since there is concrete evidence that they are NOT vampires nobody believes they're a vampire. And yet that's not the case.

[Tubbsalot]

People say they're vampires, whales, and other things they transparently are not.

As with everyone else, you're confusing sex (biologically determined, objectively observable, and largely immutable) with gender (determined by the individual, subjective, and mutable).

[Ostroeuropa]

People say they're vampires, whales, and other things they transparently are not.

As with everyone else, you're confusing sex (biologically determined, objectively observable, and largely immutable) with gender (determined by the individual, subjective, and mutable).

So why should Gender be taken at all seriously? Nobody ever bothers to explain this part.
Why should gender be special compared to being a Hoosier.

[Neutraligon]

The fact that people say they are should be enough evidence. Trust me if you don't believe in something, people will still be it no matter what.

People say they're vampires, whales, and other things they transparently are not.

See my answer to vampires and species. Humans cannot be another species at all by scientific definition. However, gender is very much harder to quantify, and does not itself have a clear definition. If a person drinks blood for sustenance then why should they not be called a vampire?

[Des-Bal]

As with everyone else, you're confusing sex (biologically determined, objectively observable, and largely immutable) with gender (determined by the individual, subjective, and mutable).

Clearly, even though I repeatedly noted the distinction and have flat out said I'm not conflating the two.

[Anvilonia]

Gender? Do what you please and stop with the silly classifications. Is it so hard to be yourself without trying so hard to fit into some group or another?
All gender grey areas are fine, though a person's sex is dependent on their genitalia (e.g: washrooms/changing rooms/fitting rooms), not your perception of it.

[Tubbsalot]

So why should Gender be taken at all seriously? Nobody ever bothers to explain this part.

What do you mean by "seriously"?

It's a subjective aspect of the person, so it's on par with e.g. sexuality, whether they like chocolate cake, or how much they enjoy showers.

[Des-Bal]

See my answer to vampires and species. Humans cannot be another species at all by scientific definition. However, gender is very much harder to quantify, and does not itself have a clear definition. If a person drinks blood for sustenance then why should they not be called a vampire?

See my answer about definitions. When someone is confronted with the fact that what they believe is wrong they flee to ambiguity. They call themselves psychic vampires and hide behind people who insist that psychic phenomena is unquantifiable.

[Anvilonia]

Fascist bigot

Let me correct myself

Intolerant, backwoodsy asshat

Let me correct you:

*** Warned for flaming ***

Go read the rules of these forums before posting again, or I predict a short visit before your ultimate ban.

Based mods.

[Neutraligon]

That statement makes o sense. What is a man? What does it mean to be a man? What is a woman? What does it mean to be a woman? What is a third gender? What does it mean to be a third gender? These are questions that have no clear answer. A vampire on the other-hand has a pretty clear definition at the most basic, that is a creature that drinks blood for sustenance(could be a bat, could be a bird, could be a human). If those who claim to be vampires do not fulfill this most basic of definitions, then they cannot be vampires.

And clearly since there is concrete evidence that they are NOT vampires nobody believes they're a vampire. And yet that's not the case.

Again, vampires tend to have a rather clear definition, so people may believe themselves to be a vampire, but since they do not fulfill that definition they cannot be one. To claim to be a vampire, when one fails to fulfill even the most basic of definitions for what a vampire is (the drinking of blood for sustenance) is like calling a triangle a square. One cannot be the other because one does not fulfill the definition of the other. That does not hold for gender since there is no clear cut definition of man, woman or whatever else there may be. For that reason we can go by what people believe themselves to be.

[Agymnum]

Gender? Do what you please and stop with the silly classifications. Is it so hard to be yourself without trying so hard to fit into some group or another?
All gender grey areas are fine, though a person's sex is dependent on their genitalia (e.g: washrooms/changing rooms/fitting rooms), not your perception of it.

You have both genitalia. What do you do?

[Anachronous Rex]

A statement that plays against everything we know about biology.

There are always outliers.

No, there aren't.

Right, well since you're just going to resort to blanket denial, I'm done with you.

[Tubbsalot]

As with everyone else, you're confusing sex (biologically determined, objectively observable, and largely immutable) with gender (determined by the individual, subjective, and mutable).

Clearly, even though I repeatedly noted the distinction and have flat out said I'm not conflating the two.

I'll grant that I haven't read back, but you're comparing "male/female" to "vampire/not-vampire," and the only way that would make sense was if you meant it exclusively in terms of sex. And I doubt anyone has been arguing that sex has no physical basis.

So either you're arguing against a strawman, or you're confused.

[Novsvacro]

Gender is a system people want to use too trap you in a unrealistic category, No one truly is a member of a gender, as none of us are the same. I'm me, your you.

[Neutraligon]

See my answer to vampires and species. Humans cannot be another species at all by scientific definition. However, gender is very much harder to quantify, and does not itself have a clear definition. If a person drinks blood for sustenance then why should they not be called a vampire?

See my answer about definitions. When someone is confronted with the fact that what they believe is wrong they flee to ambiguity. They call themselves psychic vampires and hide behind people who insist that psychic phenomena is unquantifiable.

Never heard of psychic vampires, but again, if they do not fulfill the basic definition then calling themselves something makes little to no difference. It is when the definition becomes unclear that we get things like gender, where the only way to classify it is by how someone identifies.

[Anvilonia]

Gender? Do what you please and stop with the silly classifications. Is it so hard to be yourself without trying so hard to fit into some group or another?
All gender grey areas are fine, though a person's sex is dependent on their genitalia (e.g: washrooms/changing rooms/fitting rooms), not your perception of it.

You have both genitalia. What do you do?

That's a pretty rare condition, but in that case I'd say it would likely be preferable for the majority and the afflicted individual themselves were they to enter the washroom according to one's sexual orientation.

[Shnercropolis]

well, it's more like if I see a man, I instantly and irrevocably identify them as one of the male gender. It's just easier that way, subconsciously.

So in your opinion, first impressions based on your guesses should always be treated as superior to actual facts?

When you see a person, you immediately assume they have no cancer, and if they tell you they have cancer you tell them they're wrong?

No. It's not like that at all. It's more like, if I were to meet someone who is male(sexually) then I would treat them as a male. If they said that they prefer to be called "she", I would have a hard time doing that.

You seem to think I'm some sort of bigot. I'm shy and really scared of offending people.

[Des-Bal]

I'll grant that I haven't read back, but you're comparing "male/female" to "vampire/not-vampire," and the only way that would make sense was if you meant it exclusively in terms of sex. And I doubt anyone has been arguing that sex has no physical basis.

So either you're arguing against a strawman, or you're confused.

Or if I was arguing that Male and Female are the only real genders despite not being tied to sex which reading back about a page would tell you.

[Shnercropolis]

Gender is a system people want to use too trap you in a unrealistic category, No one truly is a member of a gender, as none of us are the same. I'm me, you're you.

fixed

[Des-Bal]

Never heard of psychic vampires, but again, if they do not fulfill the basic definition then calling themselves something makes little to no difference. It is when the definition becomes unclear that we get things like gender, where the only way to classify it is by how someone identifies.

Absolutely, they can identify as male or female.