Non-binary genders

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

What is the definition of a vampire? If they fulfill that definition than there is no reason not to accept that they are vampires. The issue is that the definition of man and woman is not so well defined, unlike say, human. Oh and, there are people who believe themselves to be other than human. Well believe is the wrong word, but they were raised from a very young age by those who were not human. I would pretty much claim that they would be right in claiming they identify some other species, but then they tend not to have the words to say it. Again, if there is a continuum than there is always a neutral point. Who are you to say that some people do not fall at that neutral point. And that is still assuming that male and female are the only possibilities. I have seen no reason to believe this is the case.

I am an observer and a skeptic. I will accept that people who cannot be judged by either paradigm and that cow mutilating aliens exist when the evidence suggests they do.

Gender is not a coin. Gender is a concept. Concepts are not black and white. If you feel like you fit into one category, then that is what you are. If you feel you fit into another category, that's what you are. If you feel you fit into two categories, that's what you are. If you feel you fit into no category, that's what you are.

[Des-Bal]

Gender is not a coin. Gender is a concept. Concepts are not black and white. If you feel like you fit into one category, then that is what you are. If you feel you fit into another category, that's what you are. If you feel you fit into two categories, that's what you are. If you feel you fit into no category, that's what you are.

And we're all energy man. No.

[Anachronous Rex]

Because coins never land on their side...

Standard procedure is to flip again or to default to heads if your north of the mason dixon line.

Or to become a god if you're Bhaalspawn.

But I can't help but notice that that what you basically just did was acknowledge a non-binary distinction, then say that it should be forced to conform to a binary one.

[Des-Bal]

Or to become a god if you're Bhaalspawn.

But I can't help but notice that that what you basically just did was acknowledge a non-binary distinction, then say that it should be forced to conform to a binary one.

You're closer to one end of the continuum. It's ridiculous to consider every point a different gender.

[GWACA]

It was my understanding that gender was a way of labeling what reproductive organs you have. While that may technically not be binary due to birth defects and surgical operation the vast majority of the population would fall into one of two categories. Those two categories of course bing male and female.

[Novsvacro]

People are how they are. I'm bi so i'm bi. Some are gay because their gay. some are not female or male becuse their themselves. Arguing different is like saying a homosexual, you are not gay becuse your not in the yourself.

[Ostroeuropa]

I am an observer and a skeptic. I will accept that people who cannot be judged by either paradigm and that cow mutilating aliens exist when the evidence suggests they do.

Gender is not a coin. Gender is a concept. Concepts are not black and white. If you feel like you fit into one category, then that is what you are. If you feel you fit into another category, that's what you are. If you feel you fit into two categories, that's what you are. If you feel you fit into no category, that's what you are.

So you're essentially admitting it's a granfalloon like I always suspected. In that case, why on earth should I take anyone seriously who identifies as any gender on the issue of gender?
"I'm an X!"
"Oh thats nice dear, and I'm a hoosier."

A group of two or more people who imagine or are manipulated to believe they share a connection based on some circumstance of little or no real significance.

A proud and meaningless association of human beings

[Anachronous Rex]

Or to become a god if you're Bhaalspawn.

But I can't help but notice that that what you basically just did was acknowledge a non-binary distinction, then say that it should be forced to conform to a binary one.

You're closer to one end of the continuum. It's ridiculous to consider every point a different gender.

And yet obvious outliers do exist.

[Des-Bal]

And yet obvious outliers do exist.

No, they don't.

[Neutraligon]

What is the definition of a vampire? If they fulfill that definition than there is no reason not to accept that they are vampires. The issue is that the definition of man and woman is not so well defined, unlike say, human. Oh and, there are people who believe themselves to be other than human. Well believe is the wrong word, but they were raised from a very young age by those who were not human. I would pretty much claim that they would be right in claiming they identify some other species, but then they tend not to have the words to say it. Again, if there is a continuum than there is always a neutral point. Who are you to say that some people do not fall at that neutral point. And that is still assuming that male and female are the only possibilities. I have seen no reason to believe this is the case.

I am an observer and a skeptic. I will accept that people who cannot be judged by either paradigm and that cow mutilating aliens exist when the evidence suggests they do.

f someone fulfills that definition, then why deny it. Again the definition of what is a man and what is a woman is by in large contested. The definition of human, is not. That is the reason those who identify as some other species cannot be that other species. The definition of human verse some other species is clear. Even if the philosophical question of what humanity is is questionable. Similarly the question of what is a man and what is a woman is much more complicated because the definition is not clear, it is not precise. Thus, it is very easy to think that people can be both, neither or something else.

[Novsvacro]

Fascist bigot

[Ostroeuropa]

I am an observer and a skeptic. I will accept that people who cannot be judged by either paradigm and that cow mutilating aliens exist when the evidence suggests they do.

f someone fulfills that definition, then why deny it. Again the definition of what is a man and what is a woman is by in large contested. The definition of human, is not. That is the reason those who identify as some other species cannot be that other species. The definition of human verse some other species is clear. Even if the philosophical question of what humanity is is questionable. Similarly the question of what is a man and what is a woman is much more complicated because the definition is not clear, it is not precise. Thus, it is very easy to think that people can be both, neither or something else.

Nonetheless, the nature of gender makes it entirely acceptable for someone to be a Hoosier in gender terms.
Or a flufflepuff. Or any number of nonsense words.
All that's required is that it be an identity, and that it be seperate from the other identities, and that it be an identity based around gender.
So, i'll ask someone to explain to me why I should take them (As a male or female or whatever) any more seriously than I would take a Hoosier.

[Novsvacro]

It was to des-bal

[Des-Bal]

f someone fulfills that definition, then why deny it. Again the definition of what is a man and what is a woman is by in large contested. The definition of human, is not. That is the reason those who identify as some other species cannot be that other species. The definition of human verse some other species is clear. Even if the philosophical question of what humanity is is questionable. Similarly the question of what is a man and what is a woman is much more complicated because the definition is not clear, it is not precise. Thus, it is very easy to think that people can be both, neither or something else.

If a clear definition was all it took to convince people they were what they were there wouldn't BE any vampires.

[Des-Bal]

Fascist bigot

"Fascist" is not a slur it's a political ideology. One I might add does not in any way shape or form resemble my beliefs.

Bigot would imply intolerance and not believing in something isn't the same as being intolerant of it.

[Agymnum]

Fascist bigot

"Fascist" is not a slur it's a political ideology. One I might add does not in any way shape or form resemble my beliefs.

Bigot would imply intolerance and not believing in something isn't the same as being intolerant of it.

So if I don't believe in homosexuality that's not the same as being intolerant of it?

Does disbelief not extend contempt and thus intolerance?

[Des-Bal]

So if I don't believe in homosexuality that's not the same as being intolerant of it?

Does disbelief not extend contempt and thus intolerance?

No, not necessarily. I'm not any more intolerant of non/poly/or super gendered people than I am of dragons.

[Las Brisas]

To those of you on this forum; ask yourself the following:
Do you feel like a man/woman?
What would that even feel like in the first place?
Would you, had you been born as the opposite sex, particularly care? (If you are in a relationship, you are invited to genderswap your partner also so as to avoid that pitfall if it prevents a stumbling block.)
My suspicion is that Gender is a granfalloon. A non-naturally existed, largely pointless, social construct that provides no benefits, based upon entirely irrelevant biology (Such as penises and vaginas.)
The existence of people who deviate from this (Have penises, feel like women) is entirely normal behaviour for granfalloons.

Do you feel like a man/woman? I'm not entirely sure. As a child, I experienced what some would call 'gender dysphoria'. I acted like the 'opposite sex', and had fun doing it, too. For me, I don't think I identify as male or female.
What would that even feel like in the first place? N/A
Would you, had you been born as the opposite sex, particularly care? I feel that if I had been born of the opposite sex, I would be the exact same, except most of my friends would be XY 'males' instead of XX 'females'. So, mostly, I wouldn't care.

[Anachronous Rex]

And yet obvious outliers do exist.

No, they don't.

A statement that plays against everything we know about biology.

There are always outliers.

[Novsvacro]

Let me correct myself

Intolerant, backwoodsy asshat

[Des-Bal]

A statement that plays against everything we know about biology.

There are always outliers.

No, there aren't.

[Ostroeuropa]

To those of you on this forum; ask yourself the following:
Do you feel like a man/woman?
What would that even feel like in the first place?
Would you, had you been born as the opposite sex, particularly care? (If you are in a relationship, you are invited to genderswap your partner also so as to avoid that pitfall if it prevents a stumbling block.)
My suspicion is that Gender is a granfalloon. A non-naturally existed, largely pointless, social construct that provides no benefits, based upon entirely irrelevant biology (Such as penises and vaginas.)
The existence of people who deviate from this (Have penises, feel like women) is entirely normal behaviour for granfalloons.

Do you feel like a man/woman? I'm not entirely sure. As a child, I experienced what some would call 'gender dysphoria'. I acted like the 'opposite sex', and had fun doing it, too. For me, I don't think I identify as male or female.
What would that even feel like in the first place? N/A
Would you, had you been born as the opposite sex, particularly care? I feel that if I had been born of the opposite sex, I would be the exact same, except most of my friends would be XY 'males' instead of XX 'females'. So, mostly, I wouldn't care.

You are also Agendered then.
Do you agree that the majority of people are probably Agendered?

[Des-Bal]

Let me correct myself

Intolerant, backwoodsy asshat

Clearly my disbelief in something wholly without evidence is a product of backwoodsy asshattery.

[Shnercropolis]

please refer to my metric for defining "male-ness"

Also, I left out a few other hormones in my metric that also correlate with masculinity. I just don't want to look them up is all.

Holy shit, you were serious?

mostly. I made up the actual numbers, there's no way I have enough data for that. And I've also decided in the meantime that I can't judge people as liars or confused based on it.

The problem here is that there are physiological differences between, say, a black man and a white man.
Difference A: skin melanin content

There are also physiological and a few psychological differences between men and women
Difference A: genetalia

Neither of those things define either of those things though.

What? You're saying that I can't say a woman is a woman because she has two x chromosomes, or that a black person is black because they have higher light-absorbing chemicals in their skin?

I identify myself as male because I have a penis and no vagina.

That's a rather shallow way of looking at it, seeing as there are males with no penises.

I identify as male because I'm satisfied with my male body, voice and presentation.

Males also have more androgens and less estrogens than women. Which I do. Thus male.

Also, I really don't care how people identify yourself. If you want me to call you an anarcho-gendered individual, I'll do so, but in my heart sex is more important.

In other words, you're deceiving people into thinking you support them when in fact you view the way they identify themselves as fundamentally illegitimate. How ignoble.

well, it's more like if I see a man, I instantly and irrevocably identify them as one of the male gender. It's just easier that way, subconsciously.

[Neutraligon]

f someone fulfills that definition, then why deny it. Again the definition of what is a man and what is a woman is by in large contested. The definition of human, is not. That is the reason those who identify as some other species cannot be that other species. The definition of human verse some other species is clear. Even if the philosophical question of what humanity is is questionable. Similarly the question of what is a man and what is a woman is much more complicated because the definition is not clear, it is not precise. Thus, it is very easy to think that people can be both, neither or something else.

Nonetheless, the nature of gender makes it entirely acceptable for someone to be a Hoosier in gender terms.
Or a flufflepuff. Or any number of nonsense words.
All that's required is that it be an identity, and that it be seperate from the other identities, and that it be an identity based around gender.
So, i'll ask someone to explain to me why I should take them (As a male or female or whatever) any more seriously than I would take a Hoosier.

I am not the best person to ask since I have stated before I do not understand having a gender at all, since I lack one. It is like asking someone who is asexual what is it like to have sexual attractions to people.