Non-binary genders

[Grand Britannia]

I only like Androgynous because traps.

[Des-Bal]

So, I identify as neither and don't want to be considered either. What are you going to call me?

And why do you think that way?

I'll flip a coin.

Male and Female two established gender identities you inevitably drift towards one or the other.

[Des-Bal]

You're trolling, right?
(Considering that even with the delusion that "sex = gender", there are more than two sexes)

If gender doesn't equal sex why would you presume the number of genders is in any way correlated to the number of sexes?

[Neutraligon]

I acknowledge them, furthermore I suspect that there may well be many more agendered individuals than we currently know of.
It is my suspicion that educating the populace as to the existence of Agender as a form of identity (Or non-identity), and asking them to thoroughly analyze whether or not they, in fact, feel like a man, a woman, something else, or no gender entirely, may even lead to a majority of respondants replying with Agender as their choice.
In the same manner, if you were to ask people whether or not they identify as a particular race, but give them the option to identify as no race in particular, my suspicion is that the latter would be a majority.

To those of you on this forum; ask yourself the following:
Do you feel like a man/woman?
What would that even feel like in the first place?
Would you, had you been born as the opposite sex, particularly care? (If you are in a relationship, you are invited to genderswap your partner also so as to avoid that pitfall if it prevents a stumbling block.)
My suspicion is that Gender is a granfalloon. A non-naturally existed, largely pointless, social construct that provides no benefits, based upon entirely irrelevant biology (Such as penises and vaginas.)
The existence of people who deviate from this (Have penises, feel like women) is entirely normal behaviour for granfalloons.

That's part of the reason I realized I was genderless. I never identified as man or woman in the first place. For me I literally do not understand what it means to be male or to be female, or for that matter to have a gender, probably because I lack one. I know there are people who have a gender (or many) but I just don't get it. I wouldn't care what body I was born into, except that if I were born male I wouldn't have to deal with monthly periods and would have to deal with having a penis.

[Neutraligon]

You're trolling, right?
(Considering that even with the delusion that "sex = gender", there are more than two sexes)

If gender doesn't equal sex why would you presume the number of genders is in any way correlated to the number of sexes?

They didn't. They said even if you held that gender did equal sex, there are more than two sexes.

[Rocopurr]

So, I identify as neither and don't want to be considered either. What are you going to call me?

And why do you think that way?

I'll flip a coin.

Male and Female two established gender identities you inevitably drift towards one or the other.

Thanks. I feel so respected to know that my gender depends on a coin toss.

[Des-Bal]

They didn't. They said even if you held that gender did equal sex, there are more than two sexes.

And if gender=/= sex why would the number of sexes matter?

[Des-Bal]

Thanks. I feel so respected to know that my gender depends on a coin toss.

I tried to be accommodating, for the sake of pronouns I flipped a coin.

[Neutraligon]

They didn't. They said even if you held that gender did equal sex, there are more than two sexes.

And if gender=/= sex why would the number of sexes matter?

It doesn't. You said you believed there were two genders after assuming gender=sex. The person claimed that even if the latter where true (which it is not) the former would still not be true because there are more than just two sexes.

[Des-Bal]

It doesn't. You said you believed there were two genders after assuming gender=sex. The person claimed that even if the latter where true (which it is not) the former would still not be true because there are more than just two sexes.

I did not at any point say gender=sex.

[Shnercropolis]

I identify myself as male because I have a penis and no vagina.

But there are transgendered individuals.
Doesn't that show you that you have a very bad reason to identify as male?
Since transgendered individuals exist, the whole "Because I have a penis" argument seems to fall completely flat.
Do you have any reason for identifying as male beyond that, since it's clearly not actually a solid reason

I also have testosterone levels consistent with that of a human male, and I have wider shoulders than hips. And scoliosis, which is more common in males of my age group.

Another reason is because it's easier than thinking up some word like anarcho-gendered or something.

Also, I really don't care how people identify yourself. If you want me to call you an anarcho-gendered individual, I'll do so, but in my heart sex is more important.

[Neutraligon]

It doesn't. You said you believed there were two genders after assuming gender=sex. The person claimed that even if the latter where true (which it is not) the former would still not be true because there are more than just two sexes.

I did not at any point say gender=sex.

That is the typical belief held by those who believe in only two gender. That there are only two genders because there are only two sexes. It is true you however did not state that. For what reason do you believe there are only two genders, and do you believe that gender = sex?

[Des-Bal]

That is the typical belief held by those who believe in only two gender. That there are only two genders because there are only two sexes. It is true you however did not state that. For what reason do you believe there are only two genders, and do you believe that gender = sex?

Everyone is either closer to male or closer to female. There is no reason to recognize the points in between as anything more than subtle shades of those two paradigms.

I have never witnessed in any capacity someone who for psychological or biological reasons could not adequately be described as either male or female. I have seen people insist that they are in fact genderless or some gender which doesn't fit the binary but I can't see why those claims deserve more weight than those of the people claiming to identify as forest creatures.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

So, I identify as neither and don't want to be considered either. What are you going to call me?

And why do you think that way?

I'll flip a coin.

Male and Female two established gender identities you inevitably drift towards one or the other.

No.

[Des-Bal]

No.

Yes.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

No.

Yes.

False.

[Des-Bal]

False.

I thought I had you beat until you disagreed a second time.

[Neutraligon]

That is the typical belief held by those who believe in only two gender. That there are only two genders because there are only two sexes. It is true you however did not state that. For what reason do you believe there are only two genders, and do you believe that gender = sex?

Everyone is either closer to male or closer to female. There is no reason to recognize the points in between as anything more than subtle shades of those two paradigms.

I have never witnessed in any capacity someone who for psychological or biological reasons could not adequately be described as either male or female. I have seen people insist that they are in fact genderless or some gender which doesn't fit the binary but I can't see why those claims deserve more weight than those of the people claiming to identify as forest creatures.

Got any proof of that? You are claiming a lot about me without knowing me at all. I am not a man. I am not a woman. I am not some other gender. I am neither closer to a man nor closer to a woman (whatever that means). Also, the very fact that there is a continuum, rather than a stark man woman divide suggests that your idea of only man and only woman is wrong. For that matter it suggests that there are people who are not closer to one or the other.

[Des-Bal]

Got any proof of that? You are claiming a lot about me without knowing me at all. I am not a man. I am not a woman. I am not some other gender. I am neither closer to a man nor closer to a woman (whatever that means). Also, the very fact that there is a continuum, rather than a stark man woman divide suggests that your idea of only man and only woman is wrong. For that matter it suggests that there are people who are not closer to one or the other.

And I should respect your opinion more than those of the people who identify as vampires? I'm sure you believe you don't fit the mold and I'm sure there are plenty of not vampires who believe the same.

It's fairly easy to divide a continuum into two general categories, we do it all the time. People are always closer to one than the other.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Got any proof of that? You are claiming a lot about me without knowing me at all. I am not a man. I am not a woman. I am not some other gender. I am neither closer to a man nor closer to a woman (whatever that means). Also, the very fact that there is a continuum, rather than a stark man woman divide suggests that your idea of only man and only woman is wrong. For that matter it suggests that there are people who are not closer to one or the other.

And I should respect your opinion more than those of the people who identify as vampires? I'm sure you believe you don't fit the mold and I'm sure there are plenty of not vampires who believe the same.

It's fairly easy to divide a continuum into two general categories, we do it all the time. People are always closer to one than the other.

No.

[Neutraligon]

Got any proof of that? You are claiming a lot about me without knowing me at all. I am not a man. I am not a woman. I am not some other gender. I am neither closer to a man nor closer to a woman (whatever that means). Also, the very fact that there is a continuum, rather than a stark man woman divide suggests that your idea of only man and only woman is wrong. For that matter it suggests that there are people who are not closer to one or the other.

And I should respect your opinion more than those of the people who identify as vampires? I'm sure you believe you don't fit the mold and I'm sure there are plenty of not vampires who believe the same.

It's fairly easy to divide a continuum into two general categories, we do it all the time. People are always closer to one than the other.

What is the definition of a vampire? If they fulfill that definition than there is no reason not to accept that they are vampires. The issue is that the definition of man and woman is not so well defined, unlike say, human. Oh and, there are people who believe themselves to be other than human. Well believe is the wrong word, but they were raised from a very young age by those who were not human. I would pretty much claim that they would be right in claiming they identify some other species, but then they tend not to have the words to say it. Again, if there is a continuum than there is always a neutral point. Who are you to say that some people do not fall at that neutral point. And that is still assuming that male and female are the only possibilities. I have seen no reason to believe this is the case.

[Meryuma]

What data can "prove" a male to not be a real male?

please refer to my metric for defining "male-ness"

Also, I left out a few other hormones in my metric that also correlate with masculinity. I just don't want to look them up is all.

Holy shit, you were serious?

I acknowledge them, furthermore I suspect that there may well be many more agendered individuals than we currently know of.
It is my suspicion that educating the populace as to the existence of Agender as a form of identity, and asking them to thoroughly analyze whether or not they, in fact, feel like a man, a woman, something else, or no gender entirely, may even lead to a majority of respondants replying with Agender as their choice.
In the same manner, if you were to ask people whether or not they identify as a particular race, but give them the option to identify as no race in particular, my suspicion is that the latter would be a majority.

The problem here is that there are physiological differences between, say, a black man and a white man.
Difference A: skin melanin content

There are also physiological and a few psychological differences between men and women
Difference A: genetalia

Neither of those things define either of those things though.

I'm perfectly willing to classify myself by sex when it comes to medical things. Because that actually has a purpose.
What I wouldn't do is IDENTIFY based on my sex, any more than I would form an identity around the length of my arms or my livers health.
If you want me to join a line based on what sex I am, i'll do it.
What I won't do is pretend that it forms an important part of who I am, because it simply doesn't. I would still be the same person were my sex reversed.
Do you identify as a gender, and why do you do so

I identify myself as male because I have a penis and no vagina.

That's a rather shallow way of looking at it, seeing as there are males with no penises.

I identify as male because I'm satisfied with my male body, voice and presentation.

Also, I really don't care how people identify yourself. If you want me to call you an anarcho-gendered individual, I'll do so, but in my heart sex is more important.

In other words, you're deceiving people into thinking you support them when in fact you view the way they identify themselves as fundamentally illegitimate. How ignoble.

I have seen people insist that they are in fact genderless or some gender which doesn't fit the binary but I can't see why those claims deserve more weight than those of the people claiming to identify as forest creatures.

Because the boundaries between species are unchanging within an individual and a society (unless you're talking about a liger or something). Gender? Not so much.

Got any proof of that? You are claiming a lot about me without knowing me at all. I am not a man. I am not a woman. I am not some other gender. I am neither closer to a man nor closer to a woman (whatever that means). Also, the very fact that there is a continuum, rather than a stark man woman divide suggests that your idea of only man and only woman is wrong. For that matter it suggests that there are people who are not closer to one or the other.

And I should respect your opinion more than those of the people who identify as vampires? I'm sure you believe you don't fit the mold and I'm sure there are plenty of not vampires who believe the same.

It's fairly easy to divide a continuum into two general categories, we do it all the time. People are always closer to one than the other.

There's no evidence that vampires exist in any meaningful sense, though. That's the difference.

[Anachronous Rex]

I'll flip a coin.

Male and Female two established gender identities you inevitably drift towards one or the other.

No.

Because coins never land on their side...

[Des-Bal]

What is the definition of a vampire? If they fulfill that definition than there is no reason not to accept that they are vampires. The issue is that the definition of man and woman is not so well defined, unlike say, human. Oh and, there are people who believe themselves to be other than human. Well believe is the wrong word, but they were raised from a very young age by those who were not human. I would pretty much claim that they would be right in claiming they identify some other species, but then they tend not to have the words to say it. Again, if there is a continuum than there is always a neutral point. Who are you to say that some people do not fall at that neutral point. And that is still assuming that male and female are the only possibilities. I have seen no reason to believe this is the case.

I am an observer and a skeptic. I will accept that people who cannot be judged by either paradigm and that cow mutilating aliens exist when the evidence suggests they do.

[Des-Bal]

Because coins never land on their side...

Standard procedure is to flip again or to default to heads if your north of the mason dixon line.