NATION

PASSWORD

Non-binary genders

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
East Sashimi
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: Jul 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby East Sashimi » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:04 am

Grenartia wrote:
Hi, I'm androgynous, and I'm neither confused nor "trying to be a special snowflake".


Good for you, as I just said I'm happy for you to call yourself whatever you want, to act like or be whatever you want, I just want you to know that I don't believe you are the gender that you say you are.
I don't dislike you or mean to offend you or anything, its just I don't think there is such thing as an 'androgynous' gender.

User avatar
Grenartia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39309
Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:11 am

East Sashimi wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Hi, I'm androgynous, and I'm neither confused nor "trying to be a special snowflake".


Good for you, as I just said I'm happy for you to call yourself whatever you want, to act like or be whatever you want, I just want you to know that I don't believe you are the gender that you say you are.
I don't dislike you or mean to offend you or anything, its just I don't think there is such thing as an 'androgynous' gender.


I know exactly what you're saying. You're saying that you know me better than I know myself. And you're wrong.

Not acknowledging non-binary genders is like saying the Earth is flat.
Impeach Humanity, Legalize Death Stars, Life is TheftWis/Gren 2016 Something all cisgender allies should start doing. I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith. ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧
I'm a pansexual Androgyne. Also a Christian.
Please use they/them/their when referencing me, as I do NOT appreciate the other pronouns.
Textbook definition of irony
Quotes of awesomeness

"Don't take life so serious. It isn't permanent."-Dyakovo

User avatar
Linux and the X
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5438
Founded: Apr 29, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Linux and the X » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:14 am

East Sashimi wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Hi, I'm androgynous, and I'm neither confused nor "trying to be a special snowflake".


Good for you, as I just said I'm happy for you to call yourself whatever you want, to act like or be whatever you want, I just want you to know that I don't believe you are the gender that you say you are.
I don't dislike you or mean to offend you or anything, its just I don't think there is such thing as an 'androgynous' gender.

Image
If you see I've made a mistake in my wording or a factual detail, telegram me and I'll fix it. I'll even give you credit for pointing it out, if you'd like.
BLUE LIVES MURDER

[violet]: Maybe we could power our new search engine from the sexual tension between you two.
Me, responding to a request to vote for a liberation: But... but that would blemish my near-perfect history of spitefully voting against anything the SC does!
Farnhamia: That is not to be taken as license to start calling people "buttmunch."

GPG key ID: A8960638 fingerprint: 2239 2687 0B50 2CEC 28F7 D950 CCD0 26FC A896 0638

they/them pronouns

User avatar
East Sashimi
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: Jul 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby East Sashimi » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:29 am

Linux and the X wrote:
East Sashimi wrote:
Good for you, as I just said I'm happy for you to call yourself whatever you want, to act like or be whatever you want, I just want you to know that I don't believe you are the gender that you say you are.
I don't dislike you or mean to offend you or anything, its just I don't think there is such thing as an 'androgynous' gender.

-An image with innapropriate words on it-


I think you need to sit down and think about how this place is pg/13.

If you can find me reliable scientific proof that I am wrong I will happily admit I was wrong.
If not we could just agree to disagree before this turns to name calling and ad hominem.
Or alternatively we could just all get warnings and the thread is locked.

User avatar
Furious Grandmothers
Senator
 
Posts: 3964
Founded: Jan 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Furious Grandmothers » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:31 am

East Sashimi wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Hi, I'm androgynous, and I'm neither confused nor "trying to be a special snowflake".


Good for you, as I just said I'm happy for you to call yourself whatever you want, to act like or be whatever you want, I just want you to know that I don't believe you are the gender that you say you are.
I don't dislike you or mean to offend you or anything, its just I don't think there is such thing as an 'androgynous' gender.

Image
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 

User avatar
Rocopurr
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12772
Founded: Aug 06, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Rocopurr » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:35 am

East Sashimi wrote:
Linux and the X wrote:-An image with innapropriate words on it-


I think you need to sit down and think about how this place is pg/13.

If you can find me reliable scientific proof that I am wrong I will happily admit I was wrong.
If not we could just agree to disagree before this turns to name calling and ad hominem.
Or alternatively we could just all get warnings and the thread is locked.

Fucking fucking fucking. You can fucking say fucking without getting fucking warned.

And hi, supposed confused special snowflake here as well. This most likely won't turn into ad hominem since no one here is exactly known to do that. Even if it did, I doubt this thread would be locked because two or three people got warned.
Last edited by Rocopurr on Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
speed weed ᕕ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )ᕗ

User avatar
Furious Grandmothers
Senator
 
Posts: 3964
Founded: Jan 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Furious Grandmothers » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:35 am

East Sashimi wrote:
Linux and the X wrote:-An image with innapropriate words on it-


I think you need to sit down and think about how this place is pg/13.

If you can find me reliable scientific proof that I am wrong I will happily admit I was wrong.
If not we could just agree to disagree before this turns to name calling and ad hominem.
Or alternatively we could just all get warnings and the thread is locked.

Well, fuck. Fucking fuckety fuck.

Scientific proof that reject what claim? What kind of scientific proof to you want? Is the fact that there are intersex people and people with other combinations of the sex chromosomes other than XX and XY good? Probably not, since sex isn't gender. Oh well.

Also, your fears of name-calling, ad hominems, warnings and thread-locking are unfounded.
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 

User avatar
Grenartia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39309
Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:43 am

East Sashimi wrote:
Linux and the X wrote:-An image with innapropriate words on it-


1. I think you need to sit down and think about how this place is pg/13.

2. If you can find me reliable scientific proof that I am wrong I will happily admit I was wrong.
If not we could just agree to disagree before this turns to name calling and ad hominem.
Or alternatively we could just all get warnings and the thread is locked.


1. And you need to sit down and fucking realize that "innapropriate words" aren't against PG-13.

2. Would a link to the APA confirming the existence of non-binary gender work?
http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/transgender.aspx

Transgender is an umbrella term for persons whose gender identity, gender expression, or behavior does not conform to that typically associated with the sex to which they were assigned at birth. Gender identity refers to a person’s internal sense of being male, female, or something else; gender expression refers to the way a person communicates gender identity to others through behavior, clothing, hairstyles, voice, or body characteristics. “Trans” is sometimes used as shorthand for “transgender.” While transgender is generally a good term to use, not everyone whose appearance or behavior is gender-nonconforming will identify as a transgender person. The ways that transgender people are talked about in popular culture, academia, and science are constantly changing, particularly as individuals’ awareness, knowledge, and openness about transgender people and their experiences grow.
Impeach Humanity, Legalize Death Stars, Life is TheftWis/Gren 2016 Something all cisgender allies should start doing. I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith. ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧
I'm a pansexual Androgyne. Also a Christian.
Please use they/them/their when referencing me, as I do NOT appreciate the other pronouns.
Textbook definition of irony
Quotes of awesomeness

"Don't take life so serious. It isn't permanent."-Dyakovo

User avatar
East Sashimi
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: Jul 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby East Sashimi » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:46 am

Furious Grandmothers wrote:
East Sashimi wrote:
I think you need to sit down and think about how this place is pg/13.

If you can find me reliable scientific proof that I am wrong I will happily admit I was wrong.
If not we could just agree to disagree before this turns to name calling and ad hominem.
Or alternatively we could just all get warnings and the thread is locked.

Well, fuck. Fucking fuckety fuck.

Scientific proof that reject what claim? What kind of scientific proof to you want? Is the fact that there are intersex people and people with other combinations of the sex chromosomes other than XX and XY good? Probably not, since sex isn't gender. Oh well.

Also, your fears of name-calling, ad hominems, warnings and thread-locking are unfounded.


I just thought since this place has to be suitable for 13 year olds the 'f' word would be a bit innapropriate.
Also way to strawman there. I asked for scientific proof that non-binary genders exist and then you say something about intersex people which isn't really relevant and then tell me sex =/= gender, which I thought we already knew.

Also to the other person who said my views are ludicrous, if not believing in a concept about how gender works which has no scientific proof, and which is pretty much only believed by a few extreme left LGBT people is ludicrous then well I'm glad to be ludicrous.

User avatar
Johnw9171
Secretary
 
Posts: 26
Founded: Mar 29, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Johnw9171 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:53 am

DNA. XX. XY. Even if there's a genetic defect, a Y means male and no Y means female.

User avatar
East Sashimi
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: Jul 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby East Sashimi » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:54 am

Grenartia wrote:
East Sashimi wrote:
1. I think you need to sit down and think about how this place is pg/13.

2. If you can find me reliable scientific proof that I am wrong I will happily admit I was wrong.
If not we could just agree to disagree before this turns to name calling and ad hominem.
Or alternatively we could just all get warnings and the thread is locked.


1. And you need to sit down and fucking realize that "innapropriate words" aren't against PG-13.

2. Would a link to the APA confirming the existence of non-binary gender work?
http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/transgender.aspx

Transgender is an umbrella term for persons whose gender identity, gender expression, or behavior does not conform to that typically associated with the sex to which they were assigned at birth. Gender identity refers to a person’s internal sense of being male, female, or something else; gender expression refers to the way a person communicates gender identity to others through behavior, clothing, hairstyles, voice, or body characteristics. “Trans” is sometimes used as shorthand for “transgender.” While transgender is generally a good term to use, not everyone whose appearance or behavior is gender-nonconforming will identify as a transgender person. The ways that transgender people are talked about in popular culture, academia, and science are constantly changing, particularly as individuals’ awareness, knowledge, and openness about transgender people and their experiences grow.


This is proof that some people think they aren't male or female, not that non-binary genders exist and frankly I find it insulting to trans people that this article basically says everyone who doesn't conform to the norms about gender has the option to use the label 'trans'.

User avatar
Linux and the X
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5438
Founded: Apr 29, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Linux and the X » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:06 am

East Sashimi wrote:
Linux and the X wrote:-An image with innapropriate words on it-


I think you need to sit down and think about how this place is pg/13.

Yes, and?

If you can find me reliable scientific proof that I am wrong I will happily admit I was wrong.

"Permutations of gender which do not fit the binary are as much a part of gender as its most normative instance." (Butler, J. (2004). Undoing gender. Abington, Oxfordshire: Routledge.)

"Gender is not as simple as 'this or that'[;] there are not two distinct genders." (Carothers, B. and Reis H. (2013). Men and women are from Earth: Examining the latent structure of gender. J Pers. & Soc. Psych., 104(2), pp. 385-407. doi:10.1037/a0030437)

"Gender phenomena are not only multidimensional but multifactorial." (Spence, J. (1993). Gender-related traits and gender ideology: Evidence for a multifactorial theory. J Pers. & Soc. Psych., 64(4), pp. 624-35.)

"Mental health professionals should not impose a binary view of gender." (World Professional Association for Transgender Health (2011). Standards of Care. Minneapolis, MN: Author.)
Last edited by Linux and the X on Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
If you see I've made a mistake in my wording or a factual detail, telegram me and I'll fix it. I'll even give you credit for pointing it out, if you'd like.
BLUE LIVES MURDER

[violet]: Maybe we could power our new search engine from the sexual tension between you two.
Me, responding to a request to vote for a liberation: But... but that would blemish my near-perfect history of spitefully voting against anything the SC does!
Farnhamia: That is not to be taken as license to start calling people "buttmunch."

GPG key ID: A8960638 fingerprint: 2239 2687 0B50 2CEC 28F7 D950 CCD0 26FC A896 0638

they/them pronouns

User avatar
Grenartia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39309
Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:07 am

East Sashimi wrote:
Furious Grandmothers wrote:Well, fuck. Fucking fuckety fuck.

Scientific proof that reject what claim? What kind of scientific proof to you want? Is the fact that there are intersex people and people with other combinations of the sex chromosomes other than XX and XY good? Probably not, since sex isn't gender. Oh well.

Also, your fears of name-calling, ad hominems, warnings and thread-locking are unfounded.


I just thought since this place has to be suitable for 13 year olds the 'f' word would be a bit innapropriate.
Also way to strawman there. I asked for scientific proof that non-binary genders exist and then you say something about intersex people which isn't really relevant and then tell me sex =/= gender, which I thought we already knew.

Also to the other person who said my views are ludicrous, if not believing in a concept about how gender works which has no scientific proof, and which is pretty much only believed by a few extreme left LGBT people is ludicrous then well I'm glad to be ludicrous.


They're already saying it anyways. Its like worrying about a house catching on fire after its already burned to the ground.

Johnw9171 wrote:DNA. XX. XY. Even if there's a genetic defect, a Y means male and no Y means female.


Sex. Its not the same thing as gender.

East Sashimi wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
1. And you need to sit down and fucking realize that "innapropriate words" aren't against PG-13.

2. Would a link to the APA confirming the existence of non-binary gender work?
http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/transgender.aspx



1. This is proof that some people think they aren't male or female, not that non-binary genders exist and 2. frankly I find it insulting to trans people that this article basically says everyone who doesn't conform to the norms about gender has the option to use the label 'trans'.


1. And the difference between the two is? Absolutely nothing. Gender is a state of mind. If you think you're X gender, you ARE X gender.

2. Where are you getting that load of bullshit from? How much did it cost you to buy it? I need some to fertilize my front lawn.
Impeach Humanity, Legalize Death Stars, Life is TheftWis/Gren 2016 Something all cisgender allies should start doing. I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith. ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧
I'm a pansexual Androgyne. Also a Christian.
Please use they/them/their when referencing me, as I do NOT appreciate the other pronouns.
Textbook definition of irony
Quotes of awesomeness

"Don't take life so serious. It isn't permanent."-Dyakovo

User avatar
The Steel Magnolia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8134
Founded: Dec 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Steel Magnolia » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:31 am

East Sashimi wrote:Personally I believe there are only two genders. If you don't think you are either of them you are either confused or trying to be a special snowflake.
However what you identity as is none of anyone's business apart from your own, and by identifying as something other than male or female, although it's incorrect, your not causing anyone else harm or problems. You can call yourself a third gender and ask for me to call you xe, zhe, zhem whatever you want, as long as what you are doing isn't causing harm to others I'm happy to accept you and let you live your life believing that you are whatever you want to think you are.

Obviously if you are intersex or trans that's a totally different issue, but from what I know most intersex people happily identity as either male or female, and the only trans person I know in real life thinks that everything queer that isn't either l, g, b or t is completly made up, tumblr first world problem nonsense.


Hi, I'm a trans person, I think tumblrisms are bullshit and (ironically), transphobic. But please! Tell me more about how you know someone's identity better than they do!

(Hint: you don't)

User avatar
Furious Grandmothers
Senator
 
Posts: 3964
Founded: Jan 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Furious Grandmothers » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:32 am

East Sashimi wrote:
Furious Grandmothers wrote:Well, fuck. Fucking fuckety fuck.

Scientific proof that reject what claim? What kind of scientific proof to you want? Is the fact that there are intersex people and people with other combinations of the sex chromosomes other than XX and XY good? Probably not, since sex isn't gender. Oh well.

Also, your fears of name-calling, ad hominems, warnings and thread-locking are unfounded.


I just thought since this place has to be suitable for 13 year olds the 'f' word would be a bit innapropriate.
Also way to strawman there. I asked for scientific proof that non-binary genders exist and then you say something about intersex people which isn't really relevant and then tell me sex =/= gender, which I thought we already knew.

Also to the other person who said my views are ludicrous, if not believing in a concept about how gender works which has no scientific proof, and which is pretty much only believed by a few extreme left LGBT people is ludicrous then well I'm glad to be ludicrous.

Which is exactly why regarding the intersex point, I said:
Furious Grandmothers wrote:Probably not, since sex isn't gender. Oh well.

You know, just in case you thought they were the same. But somehow even though you know they aren't the same, you believing that there are only two genders? How does that even work out in your mind without causing cognitive dissonance or contradiction in the logic? Take me through your reasoning.

Also, regarding no scientific proof, see Linux's post which has done all the work for me digging up the scientific proof. Unless you simultaneously have some extraordinary understanding of the term "scientific proof", too.
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 
Code: Select all
 

User avatar
The Steel Magnolia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8134
Founded: Dec 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Steel Magnolia » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:33 am

East Sashimi wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
1. And you need to sit down and fucking realize that "innapropriate words" aren't against PG-13.

2. Would a link to the APA confirming the existence of non-binary gender work?
http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/transgender.aspx



This is proof that some people think they aren't male or female, not that non-binary genders exist and frankly I find it insulting to trans people that this article basically says everyone who doesn't conform to the norms about gender has the option to use the label 'trans'.



Buddy, you're cis. You have no fucking say in what is and isn't insulting to us.

I however, do!

And you know what I find insulting here?

You.

User avatar
The Steel Magnolia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8134
Founded: Dec 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Steel Magnolia » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:36 am

Johnw9171 wrote:DNA. XX. XY. Even if there's a genetic defect, a Y means male and no Y means female.

The Steel Magnolia wrote:Actually that's not true.

There are, more or less, three definitions of sex used in biology: genetic sex, gonadal sex, and phenotypic sex.

Genetic sex is the ~chromosomes~ one. In mammals, the Y chromosome normally contains a gene named SRY, which is the main trigger that causes a fetus to begin developing along a male pathway. Occasionally, due to random errors in the process of copying DNA, an SRY gene can fall off a Y chromosome or even jump over to an X chromosome: this is one of the ways you get people with XX chromosomes who develop physically as male, or people with XY chromosomes who develop physically as female. (There are other ways too, related to other genetic or environmental factors.) Now, the thing about genetic sex is that it's not actually used all that often by working biologists outside of the field of molecular genetics -- there's usually no point looking at chromosomes if what you're interested in is anatomy or biochemistry. So chromosomal sex is by no means the final word on whether we call an organism "male" or "female".

Gonadal sex is probably the one that gets used most often by biologists when they're identifying whether the unfortunate little critter they've just dissected is male or female: it's whether an animal has testes, ovaries, or something in between. While we don't yet have the technology to give trans women ovaries or trans men testes, long-term hormone therapy does render the birth gonads mostly non-functional, and of course they can also be surgically removed.

Phenotypic sex is the one that's of most interest to you and me in our daily lives. It refers to the development of sexually dimorphic characteristics, such as genital organs, and facial and body hair. It's mostly influenced by sex hormones, and there's a great deal that modern medicine can do to bring a trans person's sexual characteristics closer to their target sex than their birth sex. Phenotypic sex is just as biologically valid a definition of sex as the other two, and unless you're planning to either perform medical procedures on someone or have kids with them, it's the only one that's likely to have much relevance to you when you interact with other people.

Finally, we humans add an extra layer on top of all this, which we call gender. Gender includes all of the standards that are used in a society to differentiate men from women (and other genders, in cultures or subcultures that recognise more than two genders). Some of the characteristics by which people are categorised into one gender or another are related to phenotypic sex, but others are purely behavioural -- dress, grooming and so on. There are differences between gender expression and gender, but we won't get into that now.

So when it comes to how we decide whether to call someone a man or a woman, chromosomes are really a very small part of the story. After all, societies were categorising people into genders long before chromosomes were even discovered, and we easily discern whether people are men or women every day without it even occurring to us to look at their chromosomes first.

User avatar
Schrattal
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 188
Founded: Mar 19, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Schrattal » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:47 am

Johnw9171 wrote:DNA. XX. XY. Even if there's a genetic defect, a Y means male and no Y means female.


That's sex, not gender. And still incorrect.
Schrattal is where the linguists are German, the cooks are French, the politicos are British, the poets are Japanese and the working class are Canadian.

User avatar
Northern Teljadid
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Jul 25, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Teljadid » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:49 am

I suppose I recognise them. Still a bit strange to me, but I'll get it.
Last edited by Northern Teljadid on Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Grenartia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39309
Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:52 am

The Steel Magnolia wrote:
East Sashimi wrote:
This is proof that some people think they aren't male or female, not that non-binary genders exist and frankly I find it insulting to trans people that this article basically says everyone who doesn't conform to the norms about gender has the option to use the label 'trans'.



Buddy, you're cis. You have no fucking say in what is and isn't insulting to us.

I however, do!

And you know what I find insulting here?

You.


Getting sigged.
Impeach Humanity, Legalize Death Stars, Life is TheftWis/Gren 2016 Something all cisgender allies should start doing. I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith. ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧
I'm a pansexual Androgyne. Also a Christian.
Please use they/them/their when referencing me, as I do NOT appreciate the other pronouns.
Textbook definition of irony
Quotes of awesomeness

"Don't take life so serious. It isn't permanent."-Dyakovo

User avatar
Neutraligon
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 30758
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:26 am

Northern Teljadid wrote:I suppose I recognise them. Still a bit strange to me, but I'll get it.

Hey as long as you are working at it. The most basic ID is that gender is how you think of yourself, so do you see yourself as male female, both, neither, something else. So when you think of yourself, do you think he/she?
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
Mod stuff: One Stop Rules Shop | Reppy's Sig Workshop | Getting Help Request
Just A Little though

User avatar
Neutraligon
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 30758
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:28 am

East Sashimi wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
1. And you need to sit down and fucking realize that "innapropriate words" aren't against PG-13.

2. Would a link to the APA confirming the existence of non-binary gender work?
http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/transgender.aspx



This is proof that some people think they aren't male or female, not that non-binary genders exist and frankly I find it insulting to trans people that this article basically says everyone who doesn't conform to the norms about gender has the option to use the label 'trans'.


That is quite literally the accepted definition of trans in the community. I don't get why the hell you, who is not trans should feel insulted about it.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
Mod stuff: One Stop Rules Shop | Reppy's Sig Workshop | Getting Help Request
Just A Little though

User avatar
Zweite Alaje
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9551
Founded: Oct 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Zweite Alaje » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:40 am

Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro wrote:
Zweite Alaje wrote:I think it's funny how everyone thinks English is such a flawed language and needs to have all these foreign aspects added to it, or that it "isn't logical". There is no such thing as an illogical language.

Agreed, but...

I wonder what a Wikipedia in Pirahã would be like.

There would be LOOOOOOOOOOTS of effort explaining concepts that to us seem silly. :P

OMG, a wiki in Pirahã would be so amazing!!!

East Sashimi wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Hi, I'm androgynous, and I'm neither confused nor "trying to be a special snowflake".


Good for you, as I just said I'm happy for you to call yourself whatever you want, to act like or be whatever you want, I just want you to know that I don't believe you are the gender that you say you are.
I don't dislike you or mean to offend you or anything, its just I don't think there is such thing as an 'androgynous' gender.

Yeah, sorry, you don't get to tell people that what they identify as doesn't exist.
Geist über Körper, durch Aktionen Ehrung
Likes: Corporatism, Market Socialism, Syndicalism, Progressivism, Pantheism, Gaia Hypothesis, Centrism, Dirigisme

Dislikes: Capitalism, Liberalism, Conservatism, Libertarianism, Abortion, Modern Feminism
I've been: Communist , Fascist
Economic Left/Right: -7.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.18

NIFP
Please don't call me Zweite, Al or Ally is fine. Add 2548 posts, founded Oct 06, 2011

User avatar
Souseiseki
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17782
Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:41 am

Johnw9171 wrote:DNA. XX. XY. Even if there's a genetic defect, a Y means male and no Y means female.


its funny because there are XX males and XY females
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
T <---- THE INFAMOUS T

User avatar
East Sashimi
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: Jul 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby East Sashimi » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:47 am

Okay so I wrote everyone a nice little response, but then I got a powercut and lost everything, so sorry if this seems a little rushed.

What Linux said:
Linux and the X wrote:
East Sashimi wrote:
I think you need to sit down and think about how this place is pg/13.

Yes, and?

If you can find me reliable scientific proof that I am wrong I will happily admit I was wrong.

"Permutations of gender which do not fit the binary are as much a part of gender as its most normative instance." (Butler, J. (2004). Undoing gender. Abington, Oxfordshire: Routledge.)

"Gender is not as simple as 'this or that'[;] there are not two distinct genders." (Carothers, B. and Reis H. (2013). Men and women are from Earth: Examining the latent structure of gender. J Pers. & Soc. Psych., 104(2), pp. 385-407. doi:10.1037/a0030437)

"Gender phenomena are not only multidimensional but multifactorial." (Spence, J. (1993). Gender-related traits and gender ideology: Evidence for a multifactorial theory. J Pers. & Soc. Psych., 64(4), pp. 624-35.)

"Mental health professionals should not impose a binary view of gender." (World Professional Association for Transgender Health (2011). Standards of Care. Minneapolis, MN: Author.)

My response:
Fair enough, this shows that a fair few people believe that gender binary isn't exactly right, but like religion I think this argument is never going to be possible to say a definite yes or no to who is right and who is wrong because getting proper scientific evidence for this issue is difficult. You've got my respect now for actually showing some sources to your beliefs, although my respect is probably not worth much to you guys.

What Grenartia said:
Grenartia wrote:
East Sashimi wrote:
I just thought since this place has to be suitable for 13 year olds the 'f' word would be a bit innapropriate.
Also way to strawman there. I asked for scientific proof that non-binary genders exist and then you say something about intersex people which isn't really relevant and then tell me sex =/= gender, which I thought we already knew.

Also to the other person who said my views are ludicrous, if not believing in a concept about how gender works which has no scientific proof, and which is pretty much only believed by a few extreme left LGBT people is ludicrous then well I'm glad to be ludicrous.


They're already saying it anyways. Its like worrying about a house catching on fire after its already burned to the ground.

Johnw9171 wrote:DNA. XX. XY. Even if there's a genetic defect, a Y means male and no Y means female.


Sex. Its not the same thing as gender.

East Sashimi wrote:
1. This is proof that some people think they aren't male or female, not that non-binary genders exist and 2. frankly I find it insulting to trans people that this article basically says everyone who doesn't conform to the norms about gender has the option to use the label 'trans'.


1. And the difference between the two is? Absolutely nothing. Gender is a state of mind. If you think you're X gender, you ARE X gender.

2. Where are you getting that load of bullshit from? How much did it cost you to buy it? I need some to fertilize my front lawn.

My response:
1.If a person thinks they are a dragon, they do not become a dragon.
But I know you guys here that same argument all the time so here's a better answer:
It is possible for a person's gender to be different to what they think their gender is. For example, in their teens many people go through a phase of liking the same gender, but it is only a phase and before long they go straight again.
Some people feel like they are trapped in the wrong body. For many of these people they will genuinely be trans, however a small minority will just going through a phase.
There have been examples where somebody thinks they are trans, start hrt, maybe even had srs but then realise they made a mistake and that their gender and sex had actually matched the whole time. They thought their gender was the opposite to their sex, but just because they thought it was their gender for that phase doesn't mean it genuinely was.
2.I got that A* quality bullshit straight from your source, maybe you should try reading all of it.

What the Steel Magnolia said
The Steel Magnolia wrote:
East Sashimi wrote:Personally I believe there are only two genders. If you don't think you are either of them you are either confused or trying to be a special snowflake.
However what you identity as is none of anyone's business apart from your own, and by identifying as something other than male or female, although it's incorrect, your not causing anyone else harm or problems. You can call yourself a third gender and ask for me to call you xe, zhe, zhem whatever you want, as long as what you are doing isn't causing harm to others I'm happy to accept you and let you live your life believing that you are whatever you want to think you are.

Obviously if you are intersex or trans that's a totally different issue, but from what I know most intersex people happily identity as either male or female, and the only trans person I know in real life thinks that everything queer that isn't either l, g, b or t is completly made up, tumblr first world problem nonsense.


Hi, I'm a trans person, I think tumblrisms are bullshit and (ironically), transphobic. But please! Tell me more about how you know someone's identity better than they do!

(Hint: you don't)


My response
I don't remember saying that I know more about other people than they do themselves, but it may well of sounded like I was saying, which I am sorry for.
However if you are saying that I don't know about trans people or people who differ from what is considered normal in terms of gender and sexual preferences you are wrong.
I am myself bisexual and I currently shitting myself thinking about booking an appointment with my gp to discuss my gender identity issues, (im not saying any medical guy has said i'm definitely trans or that i've had any of the abuse or problems you might of faced) which is even harder seeing as I'm about to start a bunch of exams which will decide what career i'll get, and i'm as far in the closet you can get due to heavily religious conservative parents, lack of people who will support me and a bad national health care service but i know i've got to come out soon if I want to be young enough to pass eventually. In fact the only real advice I've had was from 4chan's /lgbt/ board who are mainly just obsessed with penises.

Anyway what i'm trying to say is not everybody with gender or sexual issues is a liberal or believes in non-binary genders.

What furious Grandmothers said:
Furious Grandmothers wrote:
East Sashimi wrote:
I just thought since this place has to be suitable for 13 year olds the 'f' word would be a bit innapropriate.
Also way to strawman there. I asked for scientific proof that non-binary genders exist and then you say something about intersex people which isn't really relevant and then tell me sex =/= gender, which I thought we already knew.

Also to the other person who said my views are ludicrous, if not believing in a concept about how gender works which has no scientific proof, and which is pretty much only believed by a few extreme left LGBT people is ludicrous then well I'm glad to be ludicrous.

Which is exactly why regarding the intersex point, I said:
Furious Grandmothers wrote:Probably not, since sex isn't gender. Oh well.

You know, just in case you thought they were the same. But somehow even though you know they aren't the same, you believing that there are only two genders? How does that even work out in your mind without causing cognitive dissonance or contradiction in the logic? Take me through your reasoning.

Also, regarding no scientific proof, see Linux's post which has done all the work for me digging up the scientific proof. Unless you simultaneously have some extraordinary understanding of the term "scientific proof", too.


My response:
Yes I can believe both sex =/= gender and that there are only 2 genders without contradicting myself.

Okay steel magnolia I've already done a response to you but I will add that i'm surprised you are okay with anyone who has gender issues being called trans, and that i'm suprised you are a feminist seeing how many of them hate trans people.

What Neutraligon said:
Neutraligon wrote:
East Sashimi wrote:
This is proof that some people think they aren't male or female, not that non-binary genders exist and frankly I find it insulting to trans people that this article basically says everyone who doesn't conform to the norms about gender has the option to use the label 'trans'.


That is quite literally the accepted definition of trans in the community. I don't get why the hell you, who is not trans should feel insulted about it.

Trans is generally not considered the same as anyone with gender issues from what I've gathered talking to a lot of lgbt people online. I'm not insulted by it myself but I can see why many trans people would be. A lot of them don't want every autogynophile fetishist hopping onto their movement.

Okay I've got to do some work now so I probably won't reply for a few hours, or maybe a day or two.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alvecia, Des-Bal, El-Amin Caliphate, Infected Mushroom, Nor Portland, Trollgaard, Uiiop, Upper Lower Eastern West Splitsville, Yahoo [Bot]

Advertisement

Remove ads