Church State in Public And in Private

[Farnhamia]

Well personally I view the crusades as a good thing, but whatever.

Murdering people because they have different views about the world is okay?

That's not exactly what the Crusades were about. They were complicated and you kind of had to be there. It isn't easy for people to understand the thinking of people 1000 years ago.

[Anachronous Rex]

Murdering people because they have different views about the world is okay?

Warfare =/= Murder

You don't know much about the Crusades, do you?

[Third Mexican Empire]

Sure. I guess we're bringing back state-supported churches and prayer then?

Next to nothing?

Uhhhhhh, I was referring to the First Amendment, the 14th Amendment, and the Separation principle(created by Thomas Jefferson) whic have been used to specifically outlaw state-supported prayer and the like.

[4years]

1. No. Where did you get that idea?
2. The people,in power are religious, but the US isn't a theocracy.

1. How exactly are they religious? Most of them use "God" and religion to get to the seat of power, because they know a large percentage of the US are Christians/or believe in God. 2. Or do you think politicians here (the US) are honest and Godfearing? Oh please

1. Most of the claim to believe in a major, which is the only actually way to tell. Also they tend to push religious agendas beyond what the general public supports.
2. Honest? No. Godfearing? Sure.

[Slovenya]

1. Really?
2. The current government doesn't really start anything. So much so that that's actually their main problem.

Oh wait up and stop living in a box. You don't think the US funds terrorists groups? you're in lala land

[Neo Rome Republic]

Atheism was not the motivating force for those murders. Rememberthe Crusades? Religion was used to justify that. Hitler used religion to justify what he was doing.

Of course Atheism wasn't the motivating force, it was power, power, power. People who don't even believe in religion use it for their own gain. Besides you can't say "I use Atheism to commit my crimes", you don't have to say anything, because an Atheist won't feel like he'll be punished in the afterlife for his crimes, so he's "free" to do that he wants.

Religious people feel that they are ''God's chosen'' so, they can do whatever they want. How about you stop with stereotypes and use actual arguments.

[4years]

Roman Empire, feudal Europe, Nazi Germany, modern Iran, etc.

Yeah, they have been.

There were good ones

Byzantine Empire, Ancient Israel, Old, middle, and New Kingdoms of Egypt, Vatican City

None of those were good. And Vatican City isn't good.

[Anachronous Rex]

Atheism was not the motivating force for those murders. Rememberthe Crusades? Religion was used to justify that. Hitler used religion to justify what he was doing.

Of course Atheism wasn't the motivating force, it was power, power, power. People who don't even believe in religion use it for their own gain. Besides you can't say "I use Atheism to commit my crimes", you don't have to say anything, because an Atheist won't feel like he'll be punished in the afterlife for his crimes, so he's "free" to do that he wants.

If the only thing that keeps you moral is fear of punishment, I worry for you.

[Blasveck]

Murdering people because they have different views about the world is okay?

Warfare =/= Murder

No, it isn't. But the Muslims in Jerusalem hadn't declared war on Christianity. They hadn't done anything to provoke the current Pope at the time. And yes, you may defend the Crusades by saying it was the "Holy Land" they were fighting for, but fighting over pieces of land doesn't justify your actions. It didn't justify Hitler's actions.

[Asuiop]

Well personally I view the crusades as a good thing, but whatever.

Murdering people because they have different views about the world is okay?

Well, religion was more of an excuse than the guiding force for Kingdoms joining the crusade

[Vazdania]

Warfare =/= Murder

You don't know much about the Crusades, do you?

Warfare = Killing

Warfare =/= Murder.

[Farnhamia]

There were good ones

Byzantine Empire, Ancient Israel, Old, middle, and New Kingdoms of Egypt, Vatican City

None of those were good. And Vatican City isn't good.

That's a rather sweeping generalization, don't you think? Of course, that is the easier way.

[4years]

1. Really?
2. The current government doesn't really start anything. So much so that that's actually their main problem.

Oh wait up and stop living in a box. You don't think the US funds terrorists groups? you're in lala land

Everyone knows the US funds terrorist groups. Make a point.

[Slovenya]

Religious people feel that they are ''God's chosen'' so, they can do whatever they want. How about you stop with stereotypes and use actual arguments.

well you need to understand there are different religious perspectives. In my religion the "chosen ones" can be anybody who believes in God. There's more to it than that, but I don't wanna get off topic

[Anachronous Rex]

1. Really?
2. The current government doesn't really start anything. So much so that that's actually their main problem.

Oh wait up and stop living in a box. You don't think the US funds terrorists groups? you're in lala land

I don't believe I actually said that.

But, yes, the current government's main problem is it's chronic inaction.

[Vazdania]

Warfare =/= Murder

No, it isn't. But the Muslims in Jerusalem hadn't declared war on Christianity. They hadn't done anything to provoke the current Pope at the time. And yes, you may defend the Crusades by saying it was the "Holy Land" they were fighting for, but fighting over pieces of land doesn't justify your actions. It didn't justify Hitler's actions.

Hitler's action weren't in the name of religion or any religion in particular.

[Forster Keys]

Seriously, look at all the shit that theocracies have caused. In the Middle East there is sectarian division. With Nazi Germany, religion was used to convince the Nazi Army that what they were doing was perfectly okay. And I need not mention the Crusades.

Well personally I view the crusades as a good thing, but whatever.

They started off with a bang, when they fought so hard to capture Christendom's holiest city... and then burned half of it to the ground slaughtering the Muslim, Christian and Jewish population for several days. The second crusade pretty much reversed the territorial gains of the first, the third was a bit of a farce, when the German crusaders went home because Barbarossa drowned and everyone else bickered too much to retake Jerusalem. And we can't forget the fourth, in which the faithful pilgrims acted as an army for hire for the Venetians throughout the Mediterranean, culminating in the sack of Constantinople which crippled Eastern Christendom. The rest are pretty much forgettable excursion by European princes against far flung Muslim possessions.

[Slovenya]

Oh wait up and stop living in a box. You don't think the US funds terrorists groups? you're in lala land

Everyone knows the US funds terrorist groups. Make a point.

everyone knows? obviously not, if people are saying the US "doesnt start anything" wth

[Slovenya]

No, it isn't. But the Muslims in Jerusalem hadn't declared war on Christianity. They hadn't done anything to provoke the current Pope at the time. And yes, you may defend the Crusades by saying it was the "Holy Land" they were fighting for, but fighting over pieces of land doesn't justify your actions. It didn't justify Hitler's actions.

Hitler's action weren't in the name of religion or any religion in particular.

you're right, if anything he thought the evolutionary gene of the aryan people was dominant. No religion there.

[Anachronous Rex]

You don't know much about the Crusades, do you?

Warfare = Killing

Warfare =/= Murder.

So it's impossible to murder if you're involved in a war?

Cool, I'll tell those Anatolian Christian children who were skewered and eaten by the Crusaders that they were definitely not murdered.

[Neo Rome Republic]

Religious people feel that they are ''God's chosen'' so, they can do whatever they want. How about you stop with stereotypes and use actual arguments.

well you need to understand there are different religious perspectives. In my religion the "chosen ones" can be anybody who believes in God. There's more to it than that, but I don't wanna get off topic

If I had to guess I'd say Orthodox Christianity. Anyway back to the point, you still haven't addressed the whole ''fear of punishment'' as the religious too, can find a loophole for themselves.

[Blasveck]

No, it isn't. But the Muslims in Jerusalem hadn't declared war on Christianity. They hadn't done anything to provoke the current Pope at the time. And yes, you may defend the Crusades by saying it was the "Holy Land" they were fighting for, but fighting over pieces of land doesn't justify your actions. It didn't justify Hitler's actions.

Hitler's action weren't in the name of religion or any religion in particular.

Yeah, they pretty much were. He was a Roman Catholic. He even reference his "Divine Creator" in Mein Kampf. He did use Christianity to justify his actions.

[Slovenya]

So it's impossible to murder if you're involved in a war?

ever heard of the Cold war?

[Vazdania]

Hitler's action weren't in the name of religion or any religion in particular.

you're right, if anything he thought the evolutionary gene of the aryan people was dominant. No religion there.

He did it the name of evolution, which is obviously based in science. Hilter's actions were guided by scientific principles.

[Forster Keys]

So it's impossible to murder if you're involved in a war?

ever heard of the Cold war?

Yeah. I heard it involved a lot of murder.