NATION

PASSWORD

Misogynistic porn

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:59 pm

IshCong wrote:How reformed though? Are we going to start putting restrictions on what sort of porn can be made using consenting adults while porn itself remains legal?

No, but it would be nice if, say, women weren't required to get body alterations and things like that. It would be nice if porn companies maybe hired women directors and writers more.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69785
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Genivaria » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:00 pm

Another thing, apparently the porn industry is kinda racist.
Inter-racial porn is considered to be 'extreme'.
Anarcho-Communist, Democratic Confederalist
"The Earth isn't dying, it's being killed. And those killing it have names and addresses." -Utah Phillips

User avatar
Luveria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31339
Founded: Feb 22, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Luveria » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:00 pm

Olthar wrote:
IshCong wrote:
Even when the viewer is female?

Yes because porn is made for men, not women.

That's true. Only heterosexual and homosexual men watch porn.

User avatar
IshCong
Senator
 
Posts: 4521
Founded: Aug 12, 2011
Libertarian Police State

Postby IshCong » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:00 pm

Olthar wrote:
IshCong wrote:
Even when the viewer is female?

Yes because porn is made for men, not women.


Not all of it.
"I think that Ish'Cong coming back is what actually killed Nations. Not the CAS ragequitting and the Axis being the Axis."
The Identifier
Lt. Plot Spoiler
General Kill-joy
Major Wiki God
Comrade Commissar
Licensed Messenger Boy

User avatar
Soldati Senza Confini
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 86050
Founded: Mar 11, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:00 pm

IshCong wrote:How reformed though? Are we going to start putting restrictions on what sort of porn can be made using consenting adults while porn itself remains legal?


Oh no, not that!

But, at the very least, not take advantage of someone's position, and from what I know (although someone correct me if I am wrong) in other countries that are not either America or European countries, they use non-consenting individuals who are forced into the sex trade for it as well. I do think that needs to stop too.
Last edited by Soldati Senza Confini on Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

User avatar
Occupied Deutschland
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18796
Founded: Oct 01, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Occupied Deutschland » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:01 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Occupied Deutschland wrote:I'll put this over here:

Consent and degradation have everything to do with each other. A woman isn't 'degrading women' by becoming a stripper. Nor is she 'degrading women' if she becomes a pornstar.

Now, one could easily say that in their own view she is degrading herself, but the self is rather far removed from the nebulous concept of 'womanhood' and no one seems to make the opposing claim that MEN in the porn industry are degrading themselves (or, interestingly 'manhood' as a concept). This would seem to suggest that the attitude that women doing so is degrading to womanhood as a whole is, actually, a remnant of sexism itself. I'm unsure if I believe that (I think I do) but that is the counterpoint.

The men in porn tend to just be vicarious incarnations of the viewer.

And?

I mean, the whole concept seems to boil down to women who do [x] taboo/kinky sexual activity are degrading women and this is acting as an empowerment of the male. But if a woman agrees to that act or DOES actually enjoy it I fail to see how it is actually misogynistic or degrading to women. If a woman agrees to getting slapped around in porn...I don't see the problem. If she agrees to a boobjob...I don't see the problem. As long as these things are in her control and she is the one giving the final go-ahead I don't think anything she does can be construed as degrading to women or 'misogynistic' (on a societal or influential level. Now, there are things that are portrayed through that lens (such as the woman-slapping and I'm sure others) but that doesn't actually make it what it is portraying.

It just seems too close to the argument that women stripping is degrading to themselves and womanhood when most people just don't see it that way and, in fact, I would hazard to guess many women doing such work actively enjoy it.
I'm General Patton.
Even those who are gone are with us as we go on.

Been busy lately--not around much.

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:01 pm

IshCong wrote:So, a man in porn is intended to be the vicarious incarnation of the female viewer.
I'm trying to figure out how that makes sense. Only thing I'm coming up with is a pre-op trans-sexual.


The porno isn't going to change according to the sex of the person viewing. I'm talking about shit like the guy's face not being focused on, only the woman's.

Of course, that response completely avoids the issue of porn made for women.


Naturally. Again, not attacking porn of itself.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Olthar
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59474
Founded: Jun 23, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Olthar » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:01 pm

IshCong wrote:
Olthar wrote:Yes because porn is made for men, not women.


Not all of it.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/negligible
The Second Cataclysm: My New RP

Roll Them Bones: A Guide to Dice RPs

My mommy says I'm special.
Add 37 to my post count for my previous nation.

Copy and paste this into your signature if you're a unique and special individual who won't conform to another person's demands.

User avatar
Warda
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1898
Founded: Jun 27, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Warda » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:01 pm

Soldati senza confini wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Pretty sure this all anyone is trying to say. Not, "OH NOES ANY WOMAN WHO IS OKAY BEING FILMED DURING SEX IS BEING ABUSED!!!11"


Well, that's how you came across.

Besides, being a projection of the viewer is exactly what porn is meant to do, to provide the window for a sexual fantasy for the viewer. Why the hell else do you think 50 shades of grey was written for?

Because Americans are so uncomfortable with their sexuality poorly written porn stories sell because omg they said porn!!
Nation Described As
Las Palmeras wrote:Decent enough for the Middle East.

User avatar
IshCong
Senator
 
Posts: 4521
Founded: Aug 12, 2011
Libertarian Police State

Postby IshCong » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:02 pm

Soldati senza confini wrote:
IshCong wrote:How reformed though? Are we going to start putting restrictions on what sort of porn can be made using consenting adults while porn itself remains legal?


Oh no, not that!

But, at the very least, not take advantage of someone's position, and from what I know (although someone correct me if I am wrong) in other countries that are not either America or Europe, they use non-consenting individuals who are forced into the sex trade for it as well. I do think that needs to stop too.


Sexual slavery and the porn industry are two very different things. I mean, I'm all for preventing people from being forced into porn, but if they're doing that job willingly, I find it more difficult to say that they can make porn but not some specific kind of porn.
"I think that Ish'Cong coming back is what actually killed Nations. Not the CAS ragequitting and the Axis being the Axis."
The Identifier
Lt. Plot Spoiler
General Kill-joy
Major Wiki God
Comrade Commissar
Licensed Messenger Boy

User avatar
Nightkill the Emperor
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 88776
Founded: Dec 28, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Nightkill the Emperor » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:02 pm


You kidding? There's loads of porn directed toward specifically women. Hell, there are entire websites devoted toward porn for women.
Hi! I'm Khan, your local misanthropic Indian.
I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith.
P2TM RP Discussion Thread
If you want a good rp, read this shit.
Tiami is cool.
Nat: Night's always in some bizarre state somewhere between "intoxicated enough to kill a hair metal lead singer" and "annoying Mormon missionary sober".

Swith: It's because you're so awesome. God himself refreshes the screen before he types just to see if Nightkill has written anything while he was off somewhere else.

Monfrox wrote:
The balkens wrote:
# went there....

It's Nightkill. He's been there so long he rents out rooms to other people at a flat rate, but demands cash up front.

User avatar
Vazdania
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19448
Founded: Mar 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Vazdania » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:03 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:This discussion was threadjacking the niceguy thread, so I brought it here.

Can porn be misogynistic or unhealthy? We go live, to NSG, to find out.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Now PORN is misogynistic? :eyebrow:

What's next, pole jumping is misogynistic because it gives the idea that men's member are a sign of vertical superiority and hence it is oppressive and it must therefore be banned from any and all olympic events?!

Because this is, really, what this whole pointing fingers at shit and categorizing it as either misogynistic or not has come down to.

Neither porn nor prostitution is inherently misogynistic. We're talking about misogynistic porn. Porn that degrades women. It's not irregular.

Porn inherently objectifies the person on film.
NSG's Resident Constitutional Executive Monarchist!
We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

NSG's Newest Vegetarian!

User avatar
IshCong
Senator
 
Posts: 4521
Founded: Aug 12, 2011
Libertarian Police State

Postby IshCong » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:03 pm



1: Your post did not use the word 'negligible'.
2: 50 Shades of Gray amounts to pretty much the same thing. I wouldn't call that negligible.
"I think that Ish'Cong coming back is what actually killed Nations. Not the CAS ragequitting and the Axis being the Axis."
The Identifier
Lt. Plot Spoiler
General Kill-joy
Major Wiki God
Comrade Commissar
Licensed Messenger Boy

User avatar
Olthar
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59474
Founded: Jun 23, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Olthar » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:03 pm

Nightkill the Emperor wrote:

You kidding? There's loads of porn directed toward specifically women. Hell, there are entire websites devoted toward porn for women.

I watch quite a bit of porn, and I haven't seen any.
The Second Cataclysm: My New RP

Roll Them Bones: A Guide to Dice RPs

My mommy says I'm special.
Add 37 to my post count for my previous nation.

Copy and paste this into your signature if you're a unique and special individual who won't conform to another person's demands.

User avatar
Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10235
Founded: Jul 05, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:04 pm

IshCong wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:The men in porn tend to just be vicarious incarnations of the viewer.


Even when the viewer is female?


They are almost never the market focus.

Because it does not generate money.
Aequalitia's bromancey mancrush.
Test: Seemingly, libertarian communism was renamed "social democracy"
Compass: economic left -9.85, social libertarian -8.97
Socio-Economic Ideology: Democratic Socialist (92% ditto/Marxist, 75% Anarchist/Social democrat, 0% etc)

Born 12/94. Weird in all senses starting at 07/2000. NSG's resident euro-carioca bara-fudanshi useless lazy perv. Agnostic atheist (not anti-religious), bi-affective homosexual/demiheterosexual (and bi-curious i.e. chronologically 95% bisexual-ish but 5% true bi), slightly more masculine of both tad neutral and tad ambiguous gender (human-/oneself-identified genderqueer; he, xe or ou, your preference), naturist, "worker" class, mildly hipster/japanophile, etc.

User avatar
Warda
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1898
Founded: Jun 27, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Warda » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:04 pm

Warda wrote:Y can't u realize one member of a group is one member of a group and can't represent the group?

No one ever says rednecks are racist to whites because they aren't all whites. Women in porn regardless if it's guy focused only represent the women in porn.
Nation Described As
Las Palmeras wrote:Decent enough for the Middle East.

User avatar
IshCong
Senator
 
Posts: 4521
Founded: Aug 12, 2011
Libertarian Police State

Postby IshCong » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:04 pm

Olthar wrote:
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:You kidding? There's loads of porn directed toward specifically women. Hell, there are entire websites devoted toward porn for women.

I watch quite a bit of porn, and I haven't seen any.


You mustn't be trying. Really. Because I come across that without trying. And I don't even look at much porn.
"I think that Ish'Cong coming back is what actually killed Nations. Not the CAS ragequitting and the Axis being the Axis."
The Identifier
Lt. Plot Spoiler
General Kill-joy
Major Wiki God
Comrade Commissar
Licensed Messenger Boy

User avatar
Occupied Deutschland
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18796
Founded: Oct 01, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Occupied Deutschland » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:04 pm

Genivaria wrote:Another thing, apparently the porn industry is kinda racist.
Inter-racial porn is considered to be 'extreme'.

...I'm afraid to ask how you know this Geni. :p

That's really odd though.
I'm General Patton.
Even those who are gone are with us as we go on.

Been busy lately--not around much.

User avatar
Olthar
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59474
Founded: Jun 23, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Olthar » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:05 pm

IshCong wrote:


1: Your post did not use the word 'negligible'.
2: 50 Shades of Gray amounts to pretty much the same thing. I wouldn't call that negligible.

One book. One. Compared to the millions of other bits of porn out there. Yeah, that's pretty damn negligible.
The Second Cataclysm: My New RP

Roll Them Bones: A Guide to Dice RPs

My mommy says I'm special.
Add 37 to my post count for my previous nation.

Copy and paste this into your signature if you're a unique and special individual who won't conform to another person's demands.

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:06 pm

Occupied Deutschland wrote:And?

I mean, the whole concept seems to boil down to women who do [x] taboo/kinky sexual activity are degrading women and this is acting as an empowerment of the male. But if a woman agrees to that act or DOES actually enjoy it I fail to see how it is actually misogynistic or degrading to women.


If she's enthusiastic about it, then obviously it's not.

If a woman agrees to getting slapped around in porn...I don't see the problem. If she agrees to a boobjob...I don't see the problem. As long as these things are in her control and she is the one giving the final go-ahead I don't think anything she does can be construed as degrading to women or 'misogynistic' (on a societal or influential level. Now, there are things that are portrayed through that lens (such as the woman-slapping and I'm sure others) but that doesn't actually make it what it is portraying.


Just because they consent doesn't mean they are comfortable with it, and this makes me sad.

It just seems too close to the argument that women stripping is degrading to themselves and womanhood when most people just don't see it that way and, in fact, I would hazard to guess many women doing such work actively enjoy it.


Some do, some don't. Like any other job. But you're not going to be stripping one day and then told by the proprietor, "Okay, now take three dicks up your pooper," and then your job becoming dependent on you doing that.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
The Marxist State
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1202
Founded: Jul 19, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Marxist State » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:06 pm

A great documentary on the subject of misogynism in the pornography industry is The Price of Pleasure.
THE FREE SOCIALIST PEOPLE OF THE MARXIST STATE
People Before Profits, Children Before War

User avatar
IshCong
Senator
 
Posts: 4521
Founded: Aug 12, 2011
Libertarian Police State

Postby IshCong » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:06 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
IshCong wrote:So, a man in porn is intended to be the vicarious incarnation of the female viewer.
I'm trying to figure out how that makes sense. Only thing I'm coming up with is a pre-op trans-sexual.


The porno isn't going to change according to the sex of the person viewing. I'm talking about shit like the guy's face not being focused on, only the woman's.

Of course, that response completely avoids the issue of porn made for women.


Naturally. Again, not attacking porn of itself.


That was kind of my point though. A blanket statement like that avoids mention of porn meant for consumption by women.
And while the video of a porno aimed at men obviously can't change once it is made, it's not like a woman can't watch it and still derive pleasure from it. And she probably won't be using the men on-screen as a vicarious incarnation.
"I think that Ish'Cong coming back is what actually killed Nations. Not the CAS ragequitting and the Axis being the Axis."
The Identifier
Lt. Plot Spoiler
General Kill-joy
Major Wiki God
Comrade Commissar
Licensed Messenger Boy

User avatar
Soldati Senza Confini
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 86050
Founded: Mar 11, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:06 pm

IshCong wrote:
Soldati senza confini wrote:
Oh no, not that!

But, at the very least, not take advantage of someone's position, and from what I know (although someone correct me if I am wrong) in other countries that are not either America or Europe, they use non-consenting individuals who are forced into the sex trade for it as well. I do think that needs to stop too.


Sexual slavery and the porn industry are two very different things. I mean, I'm all for preventing people from being forced into porn, but if they're doing that job willingly, I find it more difficult to say that they can make porn but not some specific kind of porn.


I agree with that. I wasn't contesting that as much as the fact that there is some fucked up shit that goes on in other countries where porn is not seen kindly upon, and the porn industry remains unregulated (almost to the point of being an underground market) in said countries to the point of seeing women forced into it.

But a consenting individual doing porn is still an individual doing porn, and we have to remember that outside of that video that we (more than likely) masturbate to, they still remain real people and they are probably respected as such.
Last edited by Soldati Senza Confini on Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:07 pm

IshCong wrote:


1: Your post did not use the word 'negligible'.
2: 50 Shades of Gray amounts to pretty much the same thing. I wouldn't call that negligible.

It's erotica. Not the same thing, since erotica targets women far more and doesn't involve actresses.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Warda
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1898
Founded: Jun 27, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Warda » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:08 pm

Occupied Deutschland wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Another thing, apparently the porn industry is kinda racist.
Inter-racial porn is considered to be 'extreme'.

...I'm afraid to ask how you know this Geni. :p

That's really odd though.

It's not its just a type on most sites. :p
Nation Described As
Las Palmeras wrote:Decent enough for the Middle East.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dimetrodon Empire, Maineiacs, Pridelantic people, Rusozak, The Jamesian Republic, Vylumiti

Advertisement

Remove ads