Misogynistic porn

[The Parkus Empire]

How reformed though? Are we going to start putting restrictions on what sort of porn can be made using consenting adults while porn itself remains legal?

No, but it would be nice if, say, women weren't required to get body alterations and things like that. It would be nice if porn companies maybe hired women directors and writers more.

[Genivaria]

Another thing, apparently the porn industry is kinda racist.
Inter-racial porn is considered to be 'extreme'.

[Luveria]

Even when the viewer is female?

Yes because porn is made for men, not women.

That's true. Only heterosexual and homosexual men watch porn.

[IshCong]

Even when the viewer is female?

Yes because porn is made for men, not women.

Not all of it.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

How reformed though? Are we going to start putting restrictions on what sort of porn can be made using consenting adults while porn itself remains legal?

Oh no, not that!

But, at the very least, not take advantage of someone's position, and from what I know (although someone correct me if I am wrong) in other countries that are not either America or European countries, they use non-consenting individuals who are forced into the sex trade for it as well. I do think that needs to stop too.

[Occupied Deutschland]

I'll put this over here:

Consent and degradation have everything to do with each other. A woman isn't 'degrading women' by becoming a stripper. Nor is she 'degrading women' if she becomes a pornstar.

Now, one could easily say that in their own view she is degrading herself, but the self is rather far removed from the nebulous concept of 'womanhood' and no one seems to make the opposing claim that MEN in the porn industry are degrading themselves (or, interestingly 'manhood' as a concept). This would seem to suggest that the attitude that women doing so is degrading to womanhood as a whole is, actually, a remnant of sexism itself. I'm unsure if I believe that (I think I do) but that is the counterpoint.

The men in porn tend to just be vicarious incarnations of the viewer.

And?

I mean, the whole concept seems to boil down to women who do [x] taboo/kinky sexual activity are degrading women and this is acting as an empowerment of the male. But if a woman agrees to that act or DOES actually enjoy it I fail to see how it is actually misogynistic or degrading to women. If a woman agrees to getting slapped around in porn...I don't see the problem. If she agrees to a boobjob...I don't see the problem. As long as these things are in her control and she is the one giving the final go-ahead I don't think anything she does can be construed as degrading to women or 'misogynistic' (on a societal or influential level. Now, there are things that are portrayed through that lens (such as the woman-slapping and I'm sure others) but that doesn't actually make it what it is portraying.

It just seems too close to the argument that women stripping is degrading to themselves and womanhood when most people just don't see it that way and, in fact, I would hazard to guess many women doing such work actively enjoy it.

[The Parkus Empire]

So, a man in porn is intended to be the vicarious incarnation of the female viewer.
I'm trying to figure out how that makes sense. Only thing I'm coming up with is a pre-op trans-sexual.

The porno isn't going to change according to the sex of the person viewing. I'm talking about shit like the guy's face not being focused on, only the woman's.

Of course, that response completely avoids the issue of porn made for women.

Naturally. Again, not attacking porn of itself.

[Olthar]

Yes because porn is made for men, not women.

Not all of it.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/negligible

[Warda]

Pretty sure this all anyone is trying to say. Not, "OH NOES ANY WOMAN WHO IS OKAY BEING FILMED DURING SEX IS BEING ABUSED!!!11"

Well, that's how you came across.

Besides, being a projection of the viewer is exactly what porn is meant to do, to provide the window for a sexual fantasy for the viewer. Why the hell else do you think 50 shades of grey was written for?

Because Americans are so uncomfortable with their sexuality poorly written porn stories sell because omg they said porn!!

[IshCong]

How reformed though? Are we going to start putting restrictions on what sort of porn can be made using consenting adults while porn itself remains legal?

Oh no, not that!

But, at the very least, not take advantage of someone's position, and from what I know (although someone correct me if I am wrong) in other countries that are not either America or Europe, they use non-consenting individuals who are forced into the sex trade for it as well. I do think that needs to stop too.

Sexual slavery and the porn industry are two very different things. I mean, I'm all for preventing people from being forced into porn, but if they're doing that job willingly, I find it more difficult to say that they can make porn but not some specific kind of porn.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Not all of it.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/negligible

You kidding? There's loads of porn directed toward specifically women. Hell, there are entire websites devoted toward porn for women.

[Vazdania]

This discussion was threadjacking the niceguy thread, so I brought it here.

Can porn be misogynistic or unhealthy? We go live, to NSG, to find out.

Now PORN is misogynistic?

What's next, pole jumping is misogynistic because it gives the idea that men's member are a sign of vertical superiority and hence it is oppressive and it must therefore be banned from any and all olympic events?!

Because this is, really, what this whole pointing fingers at shit and categorizing it as either misogynistic or not has come down to.

Neither porn nor prostitution is inherently misogynistic. We're talking about misogynistic porn. Porn that degrades women. It's not irregular.

Porn inherently objectifies the person on film.

[IshCong]

Not all of it.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/negligible

1: Your post did not use the word 'negligible'.
2: 50 Shades of Gray amounts to pretty much the same thing. I wouldn't call that negligible.

[Olthar]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/negligible

You kidding? There's loads of porn directed toward specifically women. Hell, there are entire websites devoted toward porn for women.

I watch quite a bit of porn, and I haven't seen any.

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

The men in porn tend to just be vicarious incarnations of the viewer.

Even when the viewer is female?

They are almost never the market focus.

Because it does not generate money.

[Warda]

Y can't u realize one member of a group is one member of a group and can't represent the group?

No one ever says rednecks are racist to whites because they aren't all whites. Women in porn regardless if it's guy focused only represent the women in porn.

[IshCong]

You kidding? There's loads of porn directed toward specifically women. Hell, there are entire websites devoted toward porn for women.

I watch quite a bit of porn, and I haven't seen any.

You mustn't be trying. Really. Because I come across that without trying. And I don't even look at much porn.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Another thing, apparently the porn industry is kinda racist.
Inter-racial porn is considered to be 'extreme'.

...I'm afraid to ask how you know this Geni.

That's really odd though.

[Olthar]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/negligible

1: Your post did not use the word 'negligible'.
2: 50 Shades of Gray amounts to pretty much the same thing. I wouldn't call that negligible.

One book. One. Compared to the millions of other bits of porn out there. Yeah, that's pretty damn negligible.

[The Parkus Empire]

And?

I mean, the whole concept seems to boil down to women who do [x] taboo/kinky sexual activity are degrading women and this is acting as an empowerment of the male. But if a woman agrees to that act or DOES actually enjoy it I fail to see how it is actually misogynistic or degrading to women.

If she's enthusiastic about it, then obviously it's not.

If a woman agrees to getting slapped around in porn...I don't see the problem. If she agrees to a boobjob...I don't see the problem. As long as these things are in her control and she is the one giving the final go-ahead I don't think anything she does can be construed as degrading to women or 'misogynistic' (on a societal or influential level. Now, there are things that are portrayed through that lens (such as the woman-slapping and I'm sure others) but that doesn't actually make it what it is portraying.

Just because they consent doesn't mean they are comfortable with it, and this makes me sad.

It just seems too close to the argument that women stripping is degrading to themselves and womanhood when most people just don't see it that way and, in fact, I would hazard to guess many women doing such work actively enjoy it.

Some do, some don't. Like any other job. But you're not going to be stripping one day and then told by the proprietor, "Okay, now take three dicks up your pooper," and then your job becoming dependent on you doing that.

[The Marxist State]

A great documentary on the subject of misogynism in the pornography industry is The Price of Pleasure.

[IshCong]

So, a man in porn is intended to be the vicarious incarnation of the female viewer.
I'm trying to figure out how that makes sense. Only thing I'm coming up with is a pre-op trans-sexual.

The porno isn't going to change according to the sex of the person viewing. I'm talking about shit like the guy's face not being focused on, only the woman's.

Of course, that response completely avoids the issue of porn made for women.

Naturally. Again, not attacking porn of itself.

That was kind of my point though. A blanket statement like that avoids mention of porn meant for consumption by women.
And while the video of a porno aimed at men obviously can't change once it is made, it's not like a woman can't watch it and still derive pleasure from it. And she probably won't be using the men on-screen as a vicarious incarnation.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Oh no, not that!

But, at the very least, not take advantage of someone's position, and from what I know (although someone correct me if I am wrong) in other countries that are not either America or Europe, they use non-consenting individuals who are forced into the sex trade for it as well. I do think that needs to stop too.

Sexual slavery and the porn industry are two very different things. I mean, I'm all for preventing people from being forced into porn, but if they're doing that job willingly, I find it more difficult to say that they can make porn but not some specific kind of porn.

I agree with that. I wasn't contesting that as much as the fact that there is some fucked up shit that goes on in other countries where porn is not seen kindly upon, and the porn industry remains unregulated (almost to the point of being an underground market) in said countries to the point of seeing women forced into it.

But a consenting individual doing porn is still an individual doing porn, and we have to remember that outside of that video that we (more than likely) masturbate to, they still remain real people and they are probably respected as such.

[The Parkus Empire]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/negligible

1: Your post did not use the word 'negligible'.
2: 50 Shades of Gray amounts to pretty much the same thing. I wouldn't call that negligible.

It's erotica. Not the same thing, since erotica targets women far more and doesn't involve actresses.

[Warda]

Another thing, apparently the porn industry is kinda racist.
Inter-racial porn is considered to be 'extreme'.

...I'm afraid to ask how you know this Geni.

That's really odd though.

It's not its just a type on most sites.