Abortion and Capital Punishment

[Telsia]

Okay, say a 27 year old had an accident thats left him/her in a (near) Vegetative state and the 25 year old sibbling is the only family left to care for him(parents dead) the 25yld would be the legal guardian and required to provide care for the 27yld. The 25yld cant afford a nurse or to place the 27 in a care facility and because the 27 has a family member, so is not entitled governmental care.

So the 25yld is in legal bondage to the disabled sibbling, required by law to care for another human being under threat to their person & liberty.

So would you execute(put-down) the 27year old to placate the 25 year old?

What happened to hospitals?

No hospitals in the west provide permanent care for patients thats nit in their duty of care, why do you think we "pull the plug" on people who are on like support for extended periods of time, "either you take them home or we'll free up the bed our way"

As for Carers:

Estimates suggest that the value of family
caregivers to the health care system is about $196
billion each year, compared to $32 billion per year
spent for paid home care and $83 billion per year
for nursing home care. (Arno et. al., 1999)

About 34% of caregivers say that they get no help
from their family or friends. (The New England
Elder Life Planning Symposium, 1999.)

In 1990, an estimated 83% of those with chronic
conditions under age 65 relied on family
caregivers; for those 65 and older it was 73%.
(Institute for Health and Aging 1996).

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

It's not ironic. One is a person, the other is not.

It is life. It has been proven scientifically that an unborn fetus is a person.

You know how I know you're lying?

Because "personhood" isn't even a scientific concept--it's an ethical one, completely outside the scope of science's competence.

[Solarys]

Abortion I feel should not really be allowed but in certain cases (i.e. rape). If you don't want the child, put them up for adoption.

Capital punishment however should be allowed. There are murderers, rapists, and others that really should not be walking our streets.

Adoption is all well and great, however you're forgetting the part where that doesn't solve the issue of not wanting to be pregnant and give birth, and the fact that just like how a rapist doesn't get the right to use my body, neither does a fetus.

Then you should have refrained from having sex unless you are sure that it won't result in pregnancy or you should be willing to face the consequences.

Equating a fetus to cancer (better alternative to a rapist) is simply disgusting.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

Adoption is all well and great, however you're forgetting the part where that doesn't solve the issue of not wanting to be pregnant and give birth, and the fact that just like how a rapist doesn't get the right to use my body, neither does a fetus.

Then you should have refrained from having sex unless you are sure that it won't result in pregnancy or you should be willing to face the consequences.

Turns out, abortion is a great way of dealing with the consequences of unprotected sex.

Equating a fetus to cancer (better alternative to a rapist) is simply disgusting.

It's not disgusting. What's disgusting is your immoral, depraved, perverse, anti-Christian, murderous, anti-life belief that a non-person is somehow entitled to legal precedence over a person.

[Mavorpen]

Then you should have refrained from having sex unless you are sure that it won't result in pregnancy or you should be willing to face the consequences.

Abortion is facing the consequences.

[Solarys]

Then you should have refrained from having sex unless you are sure that it won't result in pregnancy or you should be willing to face the consequences.

Turns out, abortion is a great way of dealing with the consequences of unprotected sex.

Equating a fetus to cancer (better alternative to a rapist) is simply disgusting.

It's not disgusting. What's disgusting is your immoral, depraved, perverse, anti-Christian, murderous, anti-life belief that a non-person is somehow entitled to legal precedence over a person.

Saying abortion is a great way of dealing with it is like saying killing your employees is a great way of avoiding paying their wages. It is murder, nothing less.

Also life is life, just because it isn't a person yet doesn't mean that you should get to do whatever you want with it. Like i said, accept the consequences or don't attempt risking it.

[Solarys]

Then you should have refrained from having sex unless you are sure that it won't result in pregnancy or you should be willing to face the consequences.

Abortion is facing the consequences.

Oh, ok, i meant accepting it, not dealing with it. (semantics).

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

Turns out, abortion is a great way of dealing with the consequences of unprotected sex.


It's not disgusting. What's disgusting is your immoral, depraved, perverse, anti-Christian, murderous, anti-life belief that a non-person is somehow entitled to legal precedence over a person.

Saying abortion is a great way of dealing with it is like saying killing your employees is a great way of avoiding paying their wages. It is murder, nothing less.

No, it's not, because unlike murder you're not killing a person.

Also life is life,

No, actually, a tumor or E. Coli or an anopheles mosquito is not of equal moral worth to you and I.

Like i said, accept the consequences or don't attempt risking it.

Are you prepared to refuse medical treatment to everyone ever injured in an automobile accident while riding in an automobile?

The simple fact of the matter is, your position is morally bankrupt. It is pure evil, anti-Christian, and anti-life. There is precisely zero rational or moral basis for anything you're arguing for here. All you've got are a bunch of self-contradictory platitudes based on making shit up and pretending reality is something other than it is.

[Mavorpen]

Abortion is facing the consequences.

Oh, ok, i meant accepting it, not dealing with it. (semantics).

And?

[Solarys]

Saying abortion is a great way of dealing with it is like saying killing your employees is a great way of avoiding paying their wages. It is murder, nothing less.

No, it's not, because unlike murder you're not killing a person.

Also life is life,

No, actually, a tumor or E. Coli or an anopheles mosquito is not of equal moral worth to you and I.

Like i said, accept the consequences or don't attempt risking it.

Are you prepared to refuse medical treatment to everyone ever injured in an automobile accident while riding in an automobile?

The simple fact of the matter is, your position is morally bankrupt. It is pure evil, anti-Christian, and anti-life. There is precisely zero rational or moral basis for anything you're arguing for here. All you've got are a bunch of self-contradictory platitudes based on making shit up and pretending reality is something other than it is.

1) Just because it isn't a person yet doesn't mean that it won't become one. If it can't due to medical reasons then sure, abort it. Otherwise you are killing what if allowed to live will become a person.

2) Can a tumor or E.coli become a person ?

3) Anti life will be pro abortion. So will be pure evil. I am advocating for life, not against it. The mother's life isn't any more worth than that of her baby. Also i am neither christian, nor care.

[Solarys]

Oh, ok, i meant accepting it, not dealing with it. (semantics).

And?

Accepting it is letting it grow up to be an adult, not aborting it.

[Mavorpen]

And?

Accepting it is letting it grow up to be an adult, not aborting it.

...And?

[Solarys]

Accepting it is letting it grow up to be an adult, not aborting it.

...And?

You said aborting it is facing the consequences. I was clarifying that by "facing" i actually meant "accepting".


Do i get another ...And?

[Mavorpen]

...And?

You said aborting it is facing the consequences. I was clarifying that by "facing" i actually meant "accepting".


Do i get another ...And?

Yes, you do.

Because I'm not sure why accepting consequences are better than not accepting them. If my finger gets cut off because I mishandled a knife, I won't "accept the consequences," I'll fucking reject it and go to the hospital where I can hopefully reattach it.

[Solarys]

You said aborting it is facing the consequences. I was clarifying that by "facing" i actually meant "accepting".


Do i get another ...And?

Yes, you do.

Because I'm not sure why accepting consequences are better than not accepting them. If my finger gets cut off because I mishandled a knife, I won't "accept the consequences," I'll fucking reject it and go to the hospital where I can hopefully reattach it.

Because in this case not accepting it means basically killing someone or something that could have become someone.

[Mavorpen]

Because in this case not accepting it means basically killing someone or something that could have become someone.

Yes, as is masturbation.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

Yes, you do.

Because I'm not sure why accepting consequences are better than not accepting them. If my finger gets cut off because I mishandled a knife, I won't "accept the consequences," I'll fucking reject it and go to the hospital where I can hopefully reattach it.

Because in this case not accepting it means basically killing someone or something that could have become someone.

So what?

It's not "someone" yet. What it could be has zero moral relevance--all that matters is what it is now.

[Brissia]

I am pro-abortion. A fetus is a living thing, I agree, but it has not achieved consciousness or any other quality that makes it a sentient entity. No memories, no thoughts, just a meat-sack who one day can become a human being. If that 'meat sack' was created through unsafe sex, or rape, than the mother can have an abortion.

I am also pro-capital punishment, but only in the cases of horrid crimes such as murder, rape/murder, and torture.

[Solarys]

Because in this case not accepting it means basically killing someone or something that could have become someone.

Yes, as is masturbation.

False equivalency.

Because in this case not accepting it means basically killing someone or something that could have become someone.

So what?

It's not "someone" yet. What it could be has zero moral relevance--all that matters is what it is now.

And that is where we disagree on. Morals are afterall subjective.

[Brissia]

Yes, as is masturbation.

False equivalency.

So what?

It's not "someone" yet. What it could be has zero moral relevance--all that matters is what it is now.

And that is where we disagree on. Morals are afterall subjective.

It is not a false equivalency. A sperm cell could become a person, but instead, you're sending hundreds of them down the shower drain. What, should we outlaw masturbation?

[Ceannairceach]

I am pro-abortion. A fetus is a living thing, I agree, but it has not achieved consciousness or any other quality that makes it a sentient entity. No memories, no thoughts, just a meat-sack who one day can become a human being. If that 'meat sack' was created through unsafe sex, or rape, than the mother can have an abortion.

I am also pro-capital punishment, but only in the cases of horrid crimes such as murder, rape/murder, and torture.

Tell me, what do you think about those who are wrongly convicted and sentenced to execution? Are they "acceptable casualties"?

[Zottistan]

Yes, as is masturbation.

False equivalency.

So what?

It's not "someone" yet. What it could be has zero moral relevance--all that matters is what it is now.

And that is where we disagree on. Morals are afterall subjective.

And since morality is subjective, women should be allowed to choose whether or not they want to keep the the fetus.

[Brissia]

I am pro-abortion. A fetus is a living thing, I agree, but it has not achieved consciousness or any other quality that makes it a sentient entity. No memories, no thoughts, just a meat-sack who one day can become a human being. If that 'meat sack' was created through unsafe sex, or rape, than the mother can have an abortion.

I am also pro-capital punishment, but only in the cases of horrid crimes such as murder, rape/murder, and torture.

Tell me, what do you think about those who are wrongly convicted and sentenced to execution? Are they "acceptable casualties"?

To me? Yes.

EDIT: Also, so much time passes between the time a punishment is given and when the poison actually goes into someone's vein, it is very possible to prove that the convicted person is innocent.

[Mavorpen]

Yes, as is masturbation.

False equivalency.

Do you not know what sperm cells are...?

[Solarys]

And since morality is subjective, women should be allowed to choose whether or not they want to keep the the fetus.

According to you, but not according to me. I am still going to go by, they should have refrained from sex if they don't want pregnancy and can't ensure proper prevention or not willing to go through with it, incase the prevention fails.

It is not a false equivalency. A sperm cell could become a person, but instead, you're sending hundreds of them down the shower drain. What, should we outlaw masturbation?

Did you just consider the sperm cell and a fetus to be the same ?

That is like equating a pollen and a fruit.