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Abortion and Capital Punishment

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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ALMF
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Posts: 2937
Founded: Jun 04, 2010
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Postby ALMF » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:20 pm

The ivain isles wrote:
Geilinor wrote:Fetus =/= baby, just like child =/= adult. You gain rights as you go from fetus to adult.

Yes, based on the idea of consent, a foetus is incapable of consenting to an abortion.

Because a featous is not an individual and as such has no intrest to wave (waver of interest is the essence of consent).
a left social libertarian (all on a scale 0-10 with a direction: 0 centrist 10 extreme)
Left over right: 5.99
Libertarian over authoritarian: 4.2,
non-interventionist over neo-con: 5.14
Cultural liberal over cultural conservative: 7.6

You are a cosmopolitan Social Democrat. 16 percent of the test participators are in the same category and 5 percent are more extremist than you.

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Blasveck
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Founded: Dec 21, 2010
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Postby Blasveck » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:20 pm

The ivain isles wrote:
Geilinor wrote:Fetus =/= baby, just like child =/= adult. You gain rights as you go from fetus to adult.

Yes, based on the idea of consent, a foetus is incapable of consenting to an abortion.


A fetus isn't a legal person.

End. Of. Story.
Forever a Communist

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The Norgan Alliance
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Founded: Feb 17, 2013
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Postby The Norgan Alliance » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:20 pm

Geilinor wrote:
The ivain isles wrote:
Nope,
Human=human
1=1
Maths fail=maths fail

Fetus=clump of cells in your body. It's no more a legal person than an appendix.

My appendix thinks, moves on it's own, has a unique DNA, and is already human/will eventually become one?
Call me Norga and I'll give you a cookie
|No Left Turn|
"When life gives you lemons, you clone those lemons, and make super lemons." ~ Principle Scudworth, 2003
The Liberated Territories wrote:Ancestry: Murican
Ethnicity: Murican
Race: Murican

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The ivain isles
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Founded: Jun 10, 2008
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Postby The ivain isles » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:21 pm

ALMF wrote:
The ivain isles wrote:
Nope,
Human=human
1=1
Maths fail=maths fail

PHD in it ;)
featous=appendix=/= human therefor featous=/=human. basic math and stuff. :eyebrow:


Lol, and nobody with a phd in maths has ever made a mistake :)

a foetus is a human, composed of its own genetic identity, therefore, human=human and 1 =/= 100
I probably hate everything you stand for. (and on)

My political viewpoint: Social democratic liberal

Why I want to destroy the very fabric of society

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Solarys
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Founded: Aug 11, 2013
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Postby Solarys » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:21 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Solarys wrote:
It is.

Then consent to having your house burned down is consent to not have a reply by the fire department.


Only it is not. Consent to leave the stove burning is consent to having your house burned down. Try again.

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Geilinor
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Founded: Feb 20, 2010
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Postby Geilinor » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:22 pm

The Norgan Alliance wrote:
Geilinor wrote:Fetus=clump of cells in your body. It's no more a legal person than an appendix.

moves on it's own

Fetuses do not move on their own.
Member of the Free Democratic Party. Not left. Not right. Forward.
Economic Left/Right: -1.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.41

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Solarys
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Founded: Aug 11, 2013
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Postby Solarys » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:22 pm

Blasveck wrote:
The ivain isles wrote:Yes, based on the idea of consent, a foetus is incapable of consenting to an abortion.


A fetus isn't a legal person.

End. Of. Story.


So if slaves are not considered legally persons, would you agree ?

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ALMF
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Founded: Jun 04, 2010
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Postby ALMF » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:23 pm

The Norgan Alliance wrote:
Geilinor wrote:Fetus=clump of cells in your body. It's no more a legal person than an appendix.

My appendix thinks, moves on it's own, has a unique DNA, and is already human/will eventually become one?

And "those child sacrificing Jues" deni the divinity the divinity of Crist. Your point?
a left social libertarian (all on a scale 0-10 with a direction: 0 centrist 10 extreme)
Left over right: 5.99
Libertarian over authoritarian: 4.2,
non-interventionist over neo-con: 5.14
Cultural liberal over cultural conservative: 7.6

You are a cosmopolitan Social Democrat. 16 percent of the test participators are in the same category and 5 percent are more extremist than you.

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Solarys
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Founded: Aug 11, 2013
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Postby Solarys » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:23 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Solarys wrote:
So the idea is that lack of consent shouldn't be considered "yes".

It isn't considered a yes.


Then it is a tie.

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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:23 pm

Solarys wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:Then consent to having your house burned down is consent to not have a reply by the fire department.


Only it is not. Consent to leave the stove burning is consent to having your house burned down. Try again.

Cool, then consent to sex isn't consent to pregnancy.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Sociobiology
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Posts: 18396
Founded: Aug 18, 2010
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Postby Sociobiology » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:23 pm

The ivain isles wrote:
ALMF wrote:PHD in it ;)
featous=appendix=/= human therefor featous=/=human. basic math and stuff. :eyebrow:


Lol, and nobody with a phd in maths has ever made a mistake :)

a foetus is a human, composed of its own genetic identity, therefore, human=human and 1 =/= 100

a tumor has its own genetic identity, therefor according to you human with same rights as you.
I think we risk becoming the best informed society that has ever died of ignorance. ~Reuben Blades

I got quite annoyed after the Haiti earthquake. A baby was taken from the wreckage and people said it was a miracle. It would have been a miracle had God stopped the earthquake. More wonderful was that a load of evolved monkeys got together to save the life of a child that wasn't theirs. ~Terry Pratchett

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Geilinor
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Founded: Feb 20, 2010
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Postby Geilinor » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:23 pm

Sociobiology wrote:
The ivain isles wrote:
Lol, and nobody with a phd in maths has ever made a mistake :)

a foetus is a human, composed of its own genetic identity, therefore, human=human and 1 =/= 100

a tumor has its own genetic identity, therefor according to you human with same rights as you.

:rofl: Anthrax has it's own genetic identity as well.
Last edited by Geilinor on Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Member of the Free Democratic Party. Not left. Not right. Forward.
Economic Left/Right: -1.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.41

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The Norgan Alliance
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Founded: Feb 17, 2013
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Postby The Norgan Alliance » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:24 pm

Geilinor wrote:
The Norgan Alliance wrote: moves on it's own

Fetuses do not move on their own.

Have you never seen a baby kick in the womb?
Call me Norga and I'll give you a cookie
|No Left Turn|
"When life gives you lemons, you clone those lemons, and make super lemons." ~ Principle Scudworth, 2003
The Liberated Territories wrote:Ancestry: Murican
Ethnicity: Murican
Race: Murican

Murica

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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:24 pm

Solarys wrote:
Blasveck wrote:
A fetus isn't a legal person.

End. Of. Story.


So if slaves are not considered legally persons, would you agree ?

Of course you would. Slaves by definition are property. Therefore the solution is to free them and THEN they could be persons.
Last edited by Mavorpen on Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Solarys
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Founded: Aug 11, 2013
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Postby Solarys » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:24 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Solarys wrote:
Only it is not. Consent to leave the stove burning is consent to having your house burned down. Try again.

Cool, then consent to sex isn't consent to pregnancy.


Ok, something is wrong with you. I am not going to do this dance.

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ALMF
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Posts: 2937
Founded: Jun 04, 2010
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Postby ALMF » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:24 pm

The ivain isles wrote:
ALMF wrote:PHD in it ;)
featous=appendix=/= human therefor featous=/=human. basic math and stuff. :eyebrow:


Lol, and nobody with a phd in maths has ever made a mistake :)

a foetus is a human, composed of its own genetic identity, therefore, human=human and 1 =/= 100

Restating the new Blood Liable dosen't make it true. :palm:
a left social libertarian (all on a scale 0-10 with a direction: 0 centrist 10 extreme)
Left over right: 5.99
Libertarian over authoritarian: 4.2,
non-interventionist over neo-con: 5.14
Cultural liberal over cultural conservative: 7.6

You are a cosmopolitan Social Democrat. 16 percent of the test participators are in the same category and 5 percent are more extremist than you.

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Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:25 pm

Solarys wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:Cool, then consent to sex isn't consent to pregnancy.


Ok, something is wrong with you. I am not going to do this dance.

It's not my fault you can't remain consistent.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Sociobiology
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Posts: 18396
Founded: Aug 18, 2010
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Postby Sociobiology » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:25 pm

Solarys wrote:
Blasveck wrote:
A fetus isn't a legal person.

End. Of. Story.


So if slaves are not considered legally persons, would you agree ?

if the slaves had the mental development of a tadpole, yes.
I think we risk becoming the best informed society that has ever died of ignorance. ~Reuben Blades

I got quite annoyed after the Haiti earthquake. A baby was taken from the wreckage and people said it was a miracle. It would have been a miracle had God stopped the earthquake. More wonderful was that a load of evolved monkeys got together to save the life of a child that wasn't theirs. ~Terry Pratchett

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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:25 pm

Sociobiology wrote:
Solarys wrote:
So if slaves are not considered legally persons, would you agree ?

if the slaves had the mental development of a tadpole, yes.

That's rather insulting to tadpoles.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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The Norgan Alliance
Minister
 
Posts: 3152
Founded: Feb 17, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Norgan Alliance » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:25 pm

Solarys wrote:
Blasveck wrote:
A fetus isn't a legal person.

End. Of. Story.


So if slaves are not considered legally persons, would you agree ?

According to Hitler Jews aren't people, can I go around killing Jews?
Call me Norga and I'll give you a cookie
|No Left Turn|
"When life gives you lemons, you clone those lemons, and make super lemons." ~ Principle Scudworth, 2003
The Liberated Territories wrote:Ancestry: Murican
Ethnicity: Murican
Race: Murican

Murica

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Geilinor
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Founded: Feb 20, 2010
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Postby Geilinor » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:25 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Sociobiology wrote:if the slaves had the mental development of a tadpole, yes.

That's rather insulting to tadpoles.

:lol:
Member of the Free Democratic Party. Not left. Not right. Forward.
Economic Left/Right: -1.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.41

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Geilinor
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41328
Founded: Feb 20, 2010
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Postby Geilinor » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:26 pm

Solarys wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:Cool, then consent to sex isn't consent to pregnancy.


Ok, something is wrong with you. I am not going to do this dance.

:palm:
Member of the Free Democratic Party. Not left. Not right. Forward.
Economic Left/Right: -1.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.41

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The Norgan Alliance
Minister
 
Posts: 3152
Founded: Feb 17, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Norgan Alliance » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:26 pm

ALMF wrote:
The Norgan Alliance wrote:My appendix thinks, moves on it's own, has a unique DNA, and is already human/will eventually become one?

And "those child sacrificing Jues" deni the divinity the divinity of Crist. Your point?

You did relate your answer in any way to my post therefore your argument is invalid. Try again.
Call me Norga and I'll give you a cookie
|No Left Turn|
"When life gives you lemons, you clone those lemons, and make super lemons." ~ Principle Scudworth, 2003
The Liberated Territories wrote:Ancestry: Murican
Ethnicity: Murican
Race: Murican

Murica

User avatar
The ivain isles
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1138
Founded: Jun 10, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby The ivain isles » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:27 pm

Sociobiology wrote:
The ivain isles wrote:
Lol, and nobody with a phd in maths has ever made a mistake :)

a foetus is a human, composed of its own genetic identity, therefore, human=human and 1 =/= 100

a tumor has its own genetic identity, therefor according to you human with same rights as you.

Yep, and your the lucky father.
I probably hate everything you stand for. (and on)

My political viewpoint: Social democratic liberal

Why I want to destroy the very fabric of society

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Solarys
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Posts: 425
Founded: Aug 11, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Solarys » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:27 pm

Sociobiology wrote:
Solarys wrote:
So if slaves are not considered legally persons, would you agree ?

if the slaves had the mental development of a tadpole, yes.


Even if they don't remain that way for more than 10 months ?

And if your reply is that when that happens, they can be considered persons, then the only problem is that until then they could be legally murdered thus rendered unable to even get to that point in life.

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