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Abortion and Capital Punishment

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The ivain isles
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Founded: Jun 10, 2008
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Postby The ivain isles » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:09 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
The ivain isles wrote:
Yes, but in the time it takes for them to pass through the door, can I kill them?

No. What a stupid fucking question.


How is it, the foetus is in the process of leaving, as the child is. If they don't get out fast enough, can I kill them?
I probably hate everything you stand for. (and on)

My political viewpoint: Social democratic liberal

Why I want to destroy the very fabric of society
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Solarys
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Postby Solarys » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:09 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:If consent to sex is consent to pregnancy, consent to cooking is consent to fire.
If you are not allowed to revoke consent, then you are not allowed to have a response from the fire department because clearly you wanted to have your house on fire.

And consent to running is consent to falling. :p


Yes, indeed.

Seitonjin wrote:
The Norgan Alliance wrote:And it's not like the baby kills the mother, so if anything the fire analogy is the bad one.

Ah but the fetus could potentially kill the mother.


In the case of medical complications, by all means, allow it.
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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:10 pm

Seitonjin wrote:
The Norgan Alliance wrote:And it's not like the baby kills the mother, so if anything the fire analogy is the bad one.

Ah but the fetus could potentially kill the mother.

Cue the "but modern medicine" argument...again...
Member of the Free Democratic Party. Not left. Not right. Forward.
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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:10 pm

The ivain isles wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:No. What a stupid fucking question.


How is it, the foetus is in the process of leaving, as the child is. If they don't get out fast enough, can I kill them?

Could you rephrase this in English?
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman
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The ivain isles
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Postby The ivain isles » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:10 pm

Geilinor wrote:
The ivain isles wrote:
Yes, but in the time it takes for them to pass through the door, can I kill them?

Fetus =/= pizza delivery guy


Human=human
I probably hate everything you stand for. (and on)

My political viewpoint: Social democratic liberal

Why I want to destroy the very fabric of society
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ALMF
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Founded: Jun 04, 2010
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Postby ALMF » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:10 pm

Ceannairceach wrote:
The ivain isles wrote:
So, if I were to have a one second old baby, I can revoke my consent by killing it?

Nope. The baby was born, and is thus not in violation of your rights anymore. Even if you wanted to get rid of it, the legal course of action then would be adoption, not abortion.

No: one is a baby the other is an appendix for all intents and porpoises.
a left social libertarian (all on a scale 0-10 with a direction: 0 centrist 10 extreme)
Left over right: 5.99
Libertarian over authoritarian: 4.2,
non-interventionist over neo-con: 5.14
Cultural liberal over cultural conservative: 7.6

You are a cosmopolitan Social Democrat. 16 percent of the test participators are in the same category and 5 percent are more extremist than you.
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The Norgan Alliance
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Postby The Norgan Alliance » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:10 pm

Seitonjin wrote:
The Norgan Alliance wrote:And it's not like the baby kills the mother, so if anything the fire analogy is the bad one.

Ah but the fetus could potentially kill the mother.

I think we all agree that that is an okay time to abort the fetus.

Nice try :)
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|No Left Turn|
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Seitonjin
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Postby Seitonjin » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:11 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Seitonjin wrote:Ah but the fetus could potentially kill the mother.

Cue the "but modern medicine" argument...again...

Sorry. :c

I should drown myself in a vat of chocolate THAT I WON'T BE SHARING c:
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ALMF
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Postby ALMF » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:11 pm

The ivain isles wrote:
Geilinor wrote:Fetus =/= pizza delivery guy


Human=appendix

fixed
a left social libertarian (all on a scale 0-10 with a direction: 0 centrist 10 extreme)
Left over right: 5.99
Libertarian over authoritarian: 4.2,
non-interventionist over neo-con: 5.14
Cultural liberal over cultural conservative: 7.6

You are a cosmopolitan Social Democrat. 16 percent of the test participators are in the same category and 5 percent are more extremist than you.
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The ivain isles
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Postby The ivain isles » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:12 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
The ivain isles wrote:
How is it, the foetus is in the process of leaving, as the child is. If they don't get out fast enough, can I kill them?

Could you rephrase this in English?


Sure, the foetus is in the process of leaving, as the child is in the process of leaving my house. If they don't leave fast enough, can I kill them?
I probably hate everything you stand for. (and on)

My political viewpoint: Social democratic liberal

Why I want to destroy the very fabric of society
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Solarys
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Postby Solarys » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:12 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Solarys wrote:
Because B and C are not interrelated unlike A and B ?

Consenting to having your home burned down DOESN'T mean you don't want the house to be saved? Holy shit you're bad at this.


I don't see anything wrong with that. Just like i won't be so against abortion if the fetus instead of killed was just moved outside the mother's body and grown in an artificial environment.
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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:13 pm

The ivain isles wrote:
Geilinor wrote:Fetus =/= pizza delivery guy


Human=human

Fetus =/= baby, just like child =/= adult. You gain rights as you go from fetus to adult.
Member of the Free Democratic Party. Not left. Not right. Forward.
Economic Left/Right: -1.13
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The ivain isles
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Postby The ivain isles » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:14 pm

ALMF wrote:
The ivain isles wrote:
Human=appendix

fixed


Nope,
Human=human
1=1
Maths fail=maths fail
I probably hate everything you stand for. (and on)

My political viewpoint: Social democratic liberal

Why I want to destroy the very fabric of society
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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:14 pm

The ivain isles wrote:Sure, the foetus is in the process of leaving, as the child is in the process of leaving my house. If they don't leave fast enough, can I kill them?

What in the world do you mean by "in the process of leaving?"

That's called a birth and thus you can't kill them.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman
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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:15 pm

Solarys wrote:I don't see anything wrong with that.

Cool, so consent to sex isn't consent to pregnancy.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman
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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:15 pm

The ivain isles wrote:
ALMF wrote:fixed


Nope,
Human=human
1=1
Maths fail=maths fail

Fetus=clump of cells in your body. It's no more a legal person than an appendix.
Member of the Free Democratic Party. Not left. Not right. Forward.
Economic Left/Right: -1.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.41
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The ivain isles
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Founded: Jun 10, 2008
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Postby The ivain isles » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:15 pm

Geilinor wrote:
The ivain isles wrote:
Human=human

Fetus =/= baby, just like child =/= adult. You gain rights as you go from fetus to adult.

Yes, based on the idea of consent, a foetus is incapable of consenting to an abortion.
I probably hate everything you stand for. (and on)

My political viewpoint: Social democratic liberal

Why I want to destroy the very fabric of society
Top
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ALMF
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Posts: 2937
Founded: Jun 04, 2010
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Postby ALMF » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:17 pm

The ivain isles wrote:
ALMF wrote:fixed


Nope,
Human=human
1=1
Maths fail=maths fail

PHD in it ;)
featous=appendix=/= human therefor featous=/=human. basic math and stuff. :eyebrow:
a left social libertarian (all on a scale 0-10 with a direction: 0 centrist 10 extreme)
Left over right: 5.99
Libertarian over authoritarian: 4.2,
non-interventionist over neo-con: 5.14
Cultural liberal over cultural conservative: 7.6

You are a cosmopolitan Social Democrat. 16 percent of the test participators are in the same category and 5 percent are more extremist than you.
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The ivain isles
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Founded: Jun 10, 2008
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Postby The ivain isles » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:18 pm

Geilinor wrote:
The ivain isles wrote:
Nope,
Human=human
1=1
Maths fail=maths fail

Fetus=clump of cells in your body. It's no more a legal person than an appendix.


Human= a clump of cells which form a body, yet corporations are legal persons too.
I probably hate everything you stand for. (and on)

My political viewpoint: Social democratic liberal

Why I want to destroy the very fabric of society
Top
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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:18 pm

The ivain isles wrote:
Geilinor wrote:Fetus =/= baby, just like child =/= adult. You gain rights as you go from fetus to adult.

Yes, based on the idea of consent, a foetus is incapable of consenting to an abortion.

And?
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman
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Solarys
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Founded: Aug 11, 2013
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Postby Solarys » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:19 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Solarys wrote:I don't see anything wrong with that.

Cool, so consent to sex isn't consent to pregnancy.


It is. I never said nor implied otherwise. If you thought otherwise, you are just unable to comprehend my posts, that is all. If that is the case, then maybe you should stop replying to me as i don't think it will change.
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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:19 pm

The ivain isles wrote:
Geilinor wrote:Fetus=clump of cells in your body. It's no more a legal person than an appendix.


Human= a clump of cells which form a body, yet corporations are legal persons too.

And?
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman
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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:20 pm

Solarys wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:Cool, so consent to sex isn't consent to pregnancy.


It is.

Then consent to having your house burned down is consent to not have a reply by the fire department.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman
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Solarys
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Postby Solarys » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:20 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
The ivain isles wrote:Yes, based on the idea of consent, a foetus is incapable of consenting to an abortion.

And?


So the idea is that lack of consent shouldn't be considered "yes".
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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:20 pm

Solarys wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:And?


So the idea is that lack of consent shouldn't be considered "yes".

It isn't considered a yes.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman
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