Abortion and Capital Punishment

[Mavorpen]

There are completely different questions involved.Children Fetuses have pain impulses and can even be taught games inside of the womb at 23 weeks. Children Fetuses have been scientifically proven to be conscious at five months. However, the brainstem doesn't even form at until seven months.

Fixed.

And even then, it's still bullshit. Fetuses aren't conscious at five months.

[Aethrys]

It's not bloodlust, it's keeping society safe while also adhering to fiscally responsible practices. The ultimate goal is to remove those who cannot be rehabilitated permanently in a way that doesn't result in more wasted resources than those they have already destroyed through their crimes.

And to avoid being executed, you just have to not be a murderer/serial rapist/other equally heinous individual.

Or be wrongfully convicted of being such.

Admittedly some will slip through the cracks. That's a regrettable side effect, but acceptable. The solution would be to bar any prosecutor or judge who winds up executing an innocent from practicing law ever again. Those who fail to do their jobs correctly will be weeded out, and the system will improve with time, resulting in a decrease in wrongful executions.

In this manner, their deaths will serve to improve society, while allowing more dangerous criminals to be eliminated, ensuring a net positive impact on society.

[Frisivisia]

It is not Ironic.

There are completely different questions involved. Children have pain impulses and can even be taught games inside of the womb at 23 weeks. Children have been scientifically proven to be conscious at five months. However, the brainstem doesn't even form at until seven months.

The difference between the two is this:

With abortion, they are getting the consequences of someone else's stupid decision. With the death penalty, they are getting the consequences of their own actions.

Abortion should be allowed in SPECIFIC cases, but all clinics should be up to surgical standards. We don't want to facilitate what happens in the alleys.

They're not children by definition, and the mother has a right to sexual activity without facing the "consequences" of her actions. Should "sluts" have to deal with STDs because they're the consequences of their actions?

[Mavorpen]

The solution would be to bar any prosecutor or judge who winds up executing an innocent from practicing law ever again. Those who fail to do their jobs correctly will be weeded out, and the system will improve with time, resulting in a decrease in wrongful executions.

Great, so you don't understand how the legal system works.

[The Shadow Brotherhood]

It's not bloodlust, it's keeping society safe while also adhering to fiscally responsible practices. The ultimate goal is to remove those who cannot be rehabilitated permanently in a way that doesn't result in more wasted resources than those they have already destroyed through their crimes.

And to avoid being executed, you just have to not be a murderer/serial rapist/other equally heinous individual.

Or be wrongfully convicted of being such.

Efficiency =/= carelessness

[Ceannairceach]

Quicker executions means innocents will be thrown into the pot. Fuck that noise, I'm not dying to sate your bloodlust.

It's not bloodlust, it's keeping society safe while also adhering to fiscally responsible practices. The ultimate goal is to remove those who cannot be rehabilitated permanently in a way that doesn't result in more wasted resources than those they have already destroyed through their crimes.

And to avoid being executed, you just have to not be a murderer/serial rapist/other equally heinous individual.

It is bloodlust; Unless you wish for innocents to be culled along with the "heinous", as will inevitably happen due to the imperfect nature of the courts, life imprisonment is a cheaper choice, thus throwing your "fiscally responsible" and "safe society" bullshit out the window. Resources won't be wasted; They will go towards rehabilitation efforts. That isn't wasting.

Or avoid being framed. Innocents have been put on death row before. And you would have them killed to increase the efficiency at which we kill innocents along with the guilty. No. Fuck that.

[Ceannairceach]

Or be wrongfully convicted of being such.

Efficiency =/= carelessness

Tell that to those who have been put on death row but were innocent.

[Sociobiology]

It is not Ironic.

There are completely different questions involved. Children have pain impulses and can even be taught games inside of the womb at 23 weeks.

Children can't be taught anything inside the womb, children are not found in wombs.

Children have been scientifically proven to be conscious at five months.

usually before that, but what does that have to do with fetuses?

However, the brainstem doesn't even form at until seven months.

No it forms before birth

With abortion, they are getting the consequences of someone else's stupid decision. With the death penalty, they are getting the consequences of their own actions.

or someone else's

Abortion should be allowed in SPECIFIC cases, but all clinics should be up to surgical standards.

why? abortions are not surgical procedures.

[Frisivisia]

Or be wrongfully convicted of being such.

Efficiency =/= carelessness

It sure seems like it when we're knocking off people we know to be innocent.

[Ceannairceach]

Or be wrongfully convicted of being such.

Admittedly some will slip through the cracks. That's a regrettable side effect, but acceptable. The solution would be to bar any prosecutor or judge who winds up executing an innocent from practicing law ever again. Those who fail to do their jobs correctly will be weeded out, and the system will improve with time, resulting in a decrease in wrongful executions.

In this manner, their deaths will serve to improve society, while allowing more dangerous criminals to be eliminated, ensuring a net positive impact on society.

No, that isn't acceptable. Any innocent death is completely unacceptable, and the "punishment" you offer is bullshit. Why are those murderers not subject to the same punishment? And the only thing that will change is the ability of the system to cover up their failures so the corrupt and wrong could keep their jobs.

Any innocent death causes more negative than their sacrifice ever will, especially when execution is a failure as far as deterrence goes when compared to life imprisonment.

[The Shadow Brotherhood]

It is not Ironic.

There are completely different questions involved. Children have pain impulses and can even be taught games inside of the womb at 23 weeks. Children have been scientifically proven to be conscious at five months. However, the brainstem doesn't even form at until seven months.

The difference between the two is this:

With abortion, they are getting the consequences of someone else's stupid decision. With the death penalty, they are getting the consequences of their own actions.

Abortion should be allowed in SPECIFIC cases, but all clinics should be up to surgical standards. We don't want to facilitate what happens in the alleys.

They're not children by definition, and the mother has a right to sexual activity without facing the "consequences" of her actions. Should "sluts" have to deal with STDs because they're the consequences of their actions?

The mother's right to pursuit of happiness does not take precedence over the child's right to life. I don't give a damn (no offense)what the definition says, science says a baby becomes conscious between 7-21 weeks, and that is what I will base my conclusion off of.

Should sluts have to deal with STDs? No, and this is irrelevant, because the STDs do not involve another human life.

[Ceannairceach]

They're not children by definition, and the mother has a right to sexual activity without facing the "consequences" of her actions. Should "sluts" have to deal with STDs because they're the consequences of their actions?

The mother's right to pursuit of happiness does not take precedence over the child's right to life. I don't give a damn (no offense)what the definition says, science says a baby becomes conscious between 7-21 weeks, and that is what I will base my conclusion off of.

Should sluts have to deal with STDs? No, and this is irrelevant, because the STDs do not involve another human life.

There is no legal right to life. Or happiness, for that matter. There is a legal right to privacy and the sovereignty over ones body.

[Frisivisia]

They're not children by definition, and the mother has a right to sexual activity without facing the "consequences" of her actions. Should "sluts" have to deal with STDs because they're the consequences of their actions?

The mother's right to pursuit of happiness does not take precedence over the child's right to life. I don't give a damn (no offense)what the definition says, science says a baby becomes conscious between 7-21 weeks, and that is what I will base my conclusion off of.

Should sluts have to deal with STDs? No, and this is irrelevant, because the STDs do not involve another human life.

The mother gets to determine what happens in her body, not you, not the fetus, just her.

[Aethrys]

The solution would be to bar any prosecutor or judge who winds up executing an innocent from practicing law ever again. Those who fail to do their jobs correctly will be weeded out, and the system will improve with time, resulting in a decrease in wrongful executions.

Great, so you don't understand how the legal system works.

I know how it fails to work, and how it should work.

Law is something far too many people get into for a cushy job and to make a lot of money. It should be for those who wish to assist in carrying out the laws that keep society functional. DAs should be people that wish to ensure a defendant has their side fairly presented, while Prosecutors should wish to contribute to the health of society by cutting out the cancer within it.

[Tlaceceyaya]

They're not children by definition, and the mother has a right to sexual activity without facing the "consequences" of her actions. Should "sluts" have to deal with STDs because they're the consequences of their actions?

The mother's right to pursuit of happiness does not take precedence over the child's right to life. I don't give a damn (no offense)what the definition says, science says a baby becomes conscious between 7-21 weeks, and that is what I will base my conclusion off of.

Should sluts have to deal with STDs? No, and this is irrelevant, because the STDs do not involve another human life.

"Science says" bla bla bla. Where the fuck's the source for that?

[Mavorpen]

science says a baby becomes conscious between 7-21 weeks

No it doesn't.

[The Shadow Brotherhood]

Efficiency =/= carelessness

It sure seems like it when we're knocking off people we know to be innocent.

I can agree with that, but efficiency means improving the current system, without changing how it operates.

Whether that is doable in reality is a different story.

[Mavorpen]

Great, so you don't understand how the legal system works.

I know how it fails to work, and how it should work.

So yeah, you admit you don't understand how it doesn't to work. Cool.

[Ceannairceach]

Great, so you don't understand how the legal system works.

I know how it fails to work, and how it should work.

Law is something far too many people get into for a cushy job and to make a lot of money. It should be for those who wish to assist in carrying out the laws that keep society functional. DAs should be people that wish to ensure a defendant has their side fairly presented, while Prosecutors should wish to contribute to the health of society by cutting out the cancer within it.

No, you don't, if you think summary executions after a sham trial are a good idea.

[Union Of Canadorian Socialists Republic]

If you don't like abortion that's your choice. Don't force your views on everyone, because they also have the right to an opinion. Calling abortion "wrong" is an opinion, not a fact. What's "wrong" is making others live by your teachings.

[Sociobiology]

They're not children by definition, and the mother has a right to sexual activity without facing the "consequences" of her actions. Should "sluts" have to deal with STDs because they're the consequences of their actions?

The mother's right to pursuit of happiness does not take precedence over the child's right to life.

correct, except a zygote is not a child.
A mother's right to pursuit of happiness does take precedence over a zygotes "right" to life.

I don't give a damn (no offense)what the definition says, science says a baby becomes conscious between 7-21 weeks,

source?
and what does that have to do with fetuses?

[Ceannairceach]

It sure seems like it when we're knocking off people we know to be innocent.

I can agree with that, but efficiency means improving the current system, without changing how it operates.

Whether that is doable in reality is a different story.

He wants quicker executions, which means changing the current system. Hell no.

[The Shadow Brotherhood]

The mother's right to pursuit of happiness does not take precedence over the child's right to life. I don't give a damn (no offense)what the definition says, science says a baby becomes conscious between 7-21 weeks, and that is what I will base my conclusion off of.

Should sluts have to deal with STDs? No, and this is irrelevant, because the STDs do not involve another human life.

"Science says" bla bla bla. Where the fuck's the source for that?

http://news.sciencemag.org/2013/04/when ... -conscious
http://www.eheart.com/cesarean/babies.html
http://civilliberty.about.com/od/aborti ... nmyths.htm

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

It is not Ironic.

There are completely different questions involved. Children have pain impulses and can even be taught games inside of the womb at 23 weeks. Children have been scientifically proven to be conscious at five months. However, the brainstem doesn't even form at until seven months.

The difference between the two is this:

With abortion, they are getting the consequences of someone else's stupid decision. With the death penalty, they are getting the consequences of their own actions.

Abortion should be allowed in SPECIFIC cases, but all clinics should be up to surgical standards. We don't want to facilitate what happens in the alleys.

Sources: http://www.eheart.com/cesarean/babies.html
http://news.sciencemag.org/2013/04/when ... -conscious
http://civilliberty.about.com/od/aborti ... nmyths.htm

Source on fetuses having pain impulses during the time when abortion is legal, and being capable of teaching them games. And five months AFTER birth. Read your own damn source.

Abortion is the way women get to protect their bodies from intrusion and exercise their right to bodily autonomy. By saying they can't have an abortion, you are stripping them of their rights and enslaving women.
With the death penalty, you are again stripping people of their rights. Just because they committed a crime in the past does not mean you get to take away their right to life now.

[The Shadow Brotherhood]

If you don't like abortion that's your choice. Don't force your views on everyone, because they also have the right to an opinion. Calling abortion "wrong" is an opinion, not a fact. What's "wrong" is making others live by your teachings.

Yeah! The opinion that grown people have a right to life is wrong too! Murder is ok! Killing other grown people is fine, and if you don't agree with me, you are forcing your rude teachings on us!