Florida accidentally bans all computers

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

The section of the bill in question:

Section 4. Section 849.16, Florida Statutes, is amended to read:
849.16 Machines or devices which come within provisions of law defined.—

(1) As used in this chapter, the term "slot machine or device" means any machine or device or system or network of devices is a slot machine or device within the provisions of this chapter if it is one that is adapted for use in such a way¹ that, upon activation, which may be achieved by, but is not limited to, as a result of the insertion of any piece of money, coin, account number, code, or other object or information, such machine or device or system is directly or indirectly caused to operate or may be operated and if the user, whether by application of skill or² by reason of any element of chance or of any other outcome of such operation unpredictable by the user him or her, may:

(a) Receive or become entitled to receive any piece of money, credit, allowance, or thing of value, or any check, slug, token, or memorandum, whether of value or otherwise, which may be exchanged for any money, credit, allowance, or thing of value or which may be given in trade; or

(b) Secure additional chances or rights to use such machine, apparatus, or device, even though the device or system it may be available for free play or, in addition to any element of chance or unpredictable outcome of such operation, may also sell, deliver, or present some merchandise, indication of weight, entertainment, or other thing of value. The term "slot machine or device" includes, but is not limited to, devices regulated as slot machines pursuant to chapter 551.

(2) Nothing contained in This chapter may not shall be construed, interpreted, or applied to the possession of a reverse vending machine. As used in this section, the term a "reverse vending machine" means is a machine into which empty beverage containers are deposited for recycling and which provides a payment of money, merchandise, vouchers, or other incentives. At a frequency less than upon the deposit of each beverage container, a reverse vending machine may pay out a random incentive bonus greater than that guaranteed payment in the form of money, merchandise, vouchers, or other incentives. The deposit of any empty beverage container into a reverse vending machine does not constitute consideration, and nor shall a reverse vending machine may not be deemed to be a slot machine as defined in within this section.

(3) There is a rebuttable presumption that a device,system, or network is a prohibited slot machine or device if it is used to display images of games of chance and is part of a scheme involving any payment or donation of money or its equivalent and awarding anything of value.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/20 ... ext/er/PDF

---

1: Yeah, no, this doesn't apply to "all computers." Y'all are arguin' over things that need not be argued over.

2: The use of "or" here can, in my non-lawyer-y opinion, be construed to mean that day traders (if they were ever so obliged to do their work in an Internet cafe) or other people that earn money by working online would be operating such a machine. But I'm not sure if that would pass muster in a court of law - or if my opinion is even correct.

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

Now watch as a post that actually examines the heart of the legislation, rather than an OP based on an article based on what amounts to a lawyer's opinion of a law and hearsay, is completely ignored by people that read the OP and don't think critically!

[Breadknife]

Kudos to the guy that wrote that bill. He managed to troll an entire state. His degree of failness is second only to the conservative Costa Rican politicians that don't read bills.

The next step is someone someone there to make a bill to solidify the Federal status, or something...

"Florida, with respect to the greater part of the Union, hereby asserts that it shall
1) Never gonna give you up,
2) Never gonna let you down,
3) Never gonna run around and desert you,
..."

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

Additionally, the first line in a different HuffPo article makes it seem as though the so-called "Internet cafes" were actually nothing of the sort:

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — Up to 1,000 strip-mall parlors where people can play slot-like computer games became illegal Wednesday in Florida, with the governor signing a ban on the heels of a federal investigation into a charity that authorities say was an illegal gambling front.

Furthermore, the Internet cafe in question has not, to my knowledge, been shut down - in fact, the complaint argues that the legislation may harm the company in the future "because the Amended Statutes have rendered the Plaintiff’s business practices arguably unlawful."

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/files/in ... plaint.pdf

[Gandoor]

I think this is a good idea.

Computers are stupid anyway.

[Breadknife]

The section of the bill in question:

Section 4. Section 849.16, Florida Statutes, is amended to read:
....that is adapted for use in such a way¹ that,

1: Yeah, no, this doesn't apply to "all computers." Y'all are arguin' over things that need not be argued over.

I personally read that as being covering "Has had an internet browser installed." Or any other element under the IP stack or from the bottom of the OS on upwards, if one considers the origianal "machine" being a bare, stand-alone PC/mac/smartphone.

Depending on what's not already on there, install a network card or wi-fi dongle or other hardware, add an OS and relevent drivers, then put on the browser (where not already embedded) and everything. Congratulations, you've adapted the device to allow the user to access such 'forbidden delights'.

(Not saying that's a waterproof interpretation, towards the overly-wide interpretation, but the lawyer with the largest balls could probably persuade a jury, for good or ill.)

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

The section of the bill in question:

Section 4. Section 849.16, Florida Statutes, is amended to read:
....that is adapted for use in such a way¹ that,

1: Yeah, no, this doesn't apply to "all computers." Y'all are arguin' over things that need not be argued over.

I personally read that as being covering "Has had an internet browser installed." Or any other element under the IP stack or from the bottom of the OS on upwards, if one considers the origianal "machine" being a bare, stand-alone PC/mac/smartphone.

Depending on what's not already on there, install a network card or wi-fi dongle or other hardware, add an OS and relevent drivers, then put on the browser (where not already embedded) and everything. Congratulations, you've adapted the device to allow the user to access such 'forbidden delights'.

(Not saying that's a waterproof interpretation, towards the overly-wide interpretation, but the lawyer with the largest balls could probably persuade a jury, for good or ill.)

Considering that computers are already manufactured to include the usage of the Internet (thank you, Internet Explorer and Opera), and sold under that guise, I'd have a really hard time as a judge buying that interpretation.

In addition - and maybe I should've red texted this as well - the adaptation is defined as one that, "upon activation, which may be achieved by, but is not limited to, as a result of the insertion of any piece of money, coin, account number, code, or other object or information..." The notion here is clear that the user must pay the operator some fee to operate the computer.

[InuYashastan]

That's unconstitutional! No way they would do this on purpose though. Anybody that values freedom values the internet.

[Shofercia]

Florida, is this what you do in your spare time, when there are no presidential elections?

[Breadknife]

Considering that computers are already manufactured to include the usage of the Internet (thank you, Internet Explorer and Opera), and sold under that guise, I'd have a really hard time as a judge buying that interpretation.

At some point a PC (let's be "hardware-ist" for a moment) is anything as little as a collection of bits that does not have the ability to communicate with the outside world, whether that's because it hasn't had Windows/Linux installed and is so far unformatted or before the network hardware is installed (or both) or at the other end of the process hasn't yet had the appropriate wi-fi settings applied. Whenever the browser goes on (merely one level of the process, although IE is still added at the time of Windows installation and Opera/Firefox/whatever ditto at the time of a Linux install) may not even be a significant part of the chain, technically, but could still be focussed upon.

So, by one of several measures (depending on what arguments you want to use) at some point it has been changed from 'legal' to 'illegal'. Because if you want to argue "are already manufactured to include..." then all you need to get around the law's actual intent may be to ensure that the (blatent) internet slot-machines that you install in your establishment have been pre-configured at the factory end (out of state?) with whatever software and software configurations you'd have been illegal in setting up on 'vanilla' machines in your own establishment, and claim that you haven't adapted them at all thus you're blameless.

In addition - and maybe I should've red texted this as well - the adaptation is defined as one that, "upon activation, which may be achieved by, but is not limited to, as a result of the insertion of any piece of money, coin, account number, code, or other object or information..." The notion here is clear that the user must pay the operator some fee to operate the computer.

I don't think it stipulated money at all. I suggest "code" or "information" can cover Wifi Passwords or Website Passwords (not necessarily a gambling one, by my reading... Hello NationStates forums!), while "other object" could include a dongle (LAN or mobile broadband or bluetooth) or ethernet cable end... in not even that much of a pinch! And, besides, you generally pay someone (somehow) in some way in order to gain access, whether that be the coffee shop's local brew or your home's telecom or alternate internet service provider for the broadband/dial-up/IPoAC link.

I'm not saying that's a good interpretation of the rules, but it's no less bad at what it attempts to do than the original scattergun approach to surgical targetting that was attempted. I'm used to not explaining myself properly. When I've written Guidance Notes and P&Ps and SOPs and Aides Memoire and the like I'm always adding clarifications and sub-clauses and the like to deal with all foreseen misinterpretations (depending on the intended audience), and invariable somebody else in the review-team involved will point me in the direction of a loophole. Or some overgeneralisation in a prohibitive phrase that would scupper something that should have been allowed. Not usually as wide-open a generalisation ('goatse'-like!) as the above seems to be, of course.

(Also somewhat reminiscent of the old phrase that "bad cases make bad laws". They obviously had a scandal on their hands and hurriedly tried to block off an (apparent?) gap in legislation by plugging the gap. Badly.)

[Planeia]

I live in Florida. NSA, why aren't you knocking down my door yet?

[Immoren]

Good going Florida!

[Thaipursia]

Only in Florida...

When Florida lawmakers recently voted to ban all Internet cafes, they worded the bill so poorly that they effectively outlawed every computer in the state, according to a recent lawsuit.

In April Florida Governor Rick Scott approved a ban on slot machines and Internet cafes after a charity tied to Lt. Governor Jennifer Carroll was shut down on suspicion of being an Internet gambling front -- forcing Carroll, who had consulted with the charity, to resign.

Florida's 1,000 Internet cafes were shut down immediately, including Miami-Dade's Incredible Investments, LLC, a café that provides online services to migrant workers, according to the Tampa Bay Times.

The owner, Consuelo Zapata, is now suing the state after her legal team found that the ban was so hastily worded that it can be applied to any computer or device connected to the Internet, according to a copy of the complaint obtained by The Miami Herald.

The ban defines illegal slot machines as any "system or network of devices" that may be used in a game of chance.

And that broad wording can be applied to any number of devices, according to the Miami law firm of Kluger, Kaplan, Silverman, Katzen & Levine, who worked with constitutional law attorney and Harvard professor Alan Dershowitz.

The suit maintains that the ban was essentially passed "in a frenzy fueled by distorted judgment in the wake of a scandal that included the Lieutenant Governor’s resignation" and declares it unconstitutional.

Read the full complaint here.

Reminds me of the country that accidentally legalized same-sex marriage. Also, I hope they get this corrected soon and, you know, actually consider the implications of the wording of these laws, because seriously .

The country in question is Costa Rica, but at least their mistake actually benefited a group of people, by recognising their civil rights, at no expense to others.

[Salandriagado]

I personally read that as being covering "Has had an internet browser installed." Or any other element under the IP stack or from the bottom of the OS on upwards, if one considers the origianal "machine" being a bare, stand-alone PC/mac/smartphone.

Depending on what's not already on there, install a network card or wi-fi dongle or other hardware, add an OS and relevent drivers, then put on the browser (where not already embedded) and everything. Congratulations, you've adapted the device to allow the user to access such 'forbidden delights'.

(Not saying that's a waterproof interpretation, towards the overly-wide interpretation, but the lawyer with the largest balls could probably persuade a jury, for good or ill.)

Considering that computers are already manufactured to include the usage of the Internet (thank you, Internet Explorer and Opera), and sold under that guise, I'd have a really hard time as a judge buying that interpretation.

And slot machines are manufactured to include the ability to gamble, in exactly the same way.

In addition - and maybe I should've red texted this as well - the adaptation is defined as one that, "upon activation, which may be achieved by, but is not limited to, as a result of the insertion of any piece of money, coin, account number, code, or other object or information..." The notion here is clear that the user must pay the operator some fee to operate the computer.

"or information" is the awkward one there. You could argue that account number/code works with login details as well.

[Geilinor]

The ban defines illegal slot machines as any "system or network of devices" that may be used in a game of chance.

We really need some computer literate people in government. Any computer connected to the Internet can access online gambling sites.

[Surfistan]

Kudos to the guy that wrote that bill. He managed to troll an entire state. His degree of failness is second only to the conservative Costa Rican politicians that don't read bills.

The next step is someone someone there to make a bill to solidify the Federal status, or something...

"Florida, with respect to the greater part of the Union, hereby asserts that it shall
1) Never gonna give you up,
2) Never gonna let you down,
3) Never gonna run around and desert you,
..."

Ah yes, the Floridan "abandon the draft" bill, something conservatives love.

[Benuty]

:rofl:

The ban defines illegal slot machines as any "system or network of devices" that may be used in a game of chance.

We really need some computer literate people in government. Any computer connected to the Internet can access online gambling sites.

Why not gamble porn?

[Great Biscay]

I would have voted against the legislation anyway. I don't see why internet cafes should have been banned because if I go on holiday I need internet cafes to use the internet, & Florida is a popular tourist destination, isn't it.

PS: I like penny-in-the-slot machines

[The Soodean Imperium]

This reminds me of the time someone proposed a WA resolution that defined "Chemical Weapons" as "any device that uses chemicals to cause harm to people."

Depending on how you define "chemicals," that would have outlawed explosives, gunpowder, steel, and possibly the human body.

[Regnum Dominae]

This reminds me of the time someone proposed a WA resolution that defined "Chemical Weapons" as "any device that uses chemicals to cause harm to people."

Depending on how you define "chemicals," that would have outlawed explosives, gunpowder, steel, and possibly the human body.

And water.

[Rio Cana]

So with all the technology we have today Florida decides to ban internet Café since they might connect to gambling sites. Would it not have been better if the State of Florida had required these internet cafes to pass all there connections via a state server which would make sure no gambling sites were accessed.


Florida needs to move that State Capital from that Northern rural location not far from Georgia to Central Florida.

This is a map which shows Southern English. When it comes to Florida, it seems to be found in the Northern Part of the State which is also the location of the State Capital



I would think that non-green area which makes up most of Florida would consists of Northern English, Caribbean Spanish and French Creole.

[Gauthier]

:rofl:

We really need some computer literate people in government. Any computer connected to the Internet can access online gambling sites.

Why not gamble porn?

Strip Poker is dime-a-dozen at this point.

[Regnum Dominae]

So with all the technology we have today Florida decides to ban internet Café since they might connect to gambling sites. Would it not have been better if the State of Florida had required these internet cafes to pass all there connections via a state server which would make sure no gambling sites were accessed.


Florida needs to move that State Capital from that Northern rural location not far from Georgia to Central Florida.

This is a map which shows Southern English. When it comes to Florida, it seems to be found in the Northern Part of the State which is also the location of the State Capital

(Image)

I would think that non-green area which makes up most of Florida would consists of Northern English, Caribbean Spanish and French Creole.

No. That's called spying.

[Benuty]

So with all the technology we have today Florida decides to ban internet Café since they might connect to gambling sites. Would it not have been better if the State of Florida had required these internet cafes to pass all there connections via a state server which would make sure no gambling sites were accessed.


Florida needs to move that State Capital from that Northern rural location not far from Georgia to Central Florida.

This is a map which shows Southern English. When it comes to Florida, it seems to be found in the Northern Part of the State which is also the location of the State Capital

(Image)

I would think that non-green area which makes up most of Florida would consists of Northern English, Caribbean Spanish and French Creole.

No. That's called spying.

More like Titanic pontypooling.

[Blakk Metal]

Because all the South is the same. There are no regional differences.

North Carolina actually used to be very different, particularly in areas of providing quality education and attracting the tech industry. Fuck, man, even our Republicans liked healthcare, the environment, and public education. But then Satan Southern Karl Rove Art Pope used his money to get crazy people elected and it's gone down the shitter.

NC has already adopted the new abortion restrictions from Texas, the "arrest anyone who dares protest us" line from Wisconsin, and the Mississippi approach to funding public education. They're going to see this crazy law in Florida and think "Hey! Let's do that next!"

You got I was sarcastic, right?

The section of the bill in question:

Section 4. Section 849.16, Florida Statutes, is amended to read:
....that is adapted for use in such a way¹ that,

1: Yeah, no, this doesn't apply to "all computers." Y'all are arguin' over things that need not be argued over.

I personally read that as being covering "Has had an internet browser installed." Or any other element under the IP stack or from the bottom of the OS on upwards, if one considers the origianal "machine" being a bare, stand-alone PC/mac/smartphone.

Depending on what's not already on there, install a network card or wi-fi dongle or other hardware, add an OS and relevent drivers, then put on the browser (where not already embedded) and everything. Congratulations, you've adapted the device to allow the user to access such 'forbidden delights'.

(Not saying that's a waterproof interpretation, towards the overly-wide interpretation, but the lawyer with the largest balls could probably persuade a jury, for good or ill.)

This is the state which has executed 6+ innocent people. Of course the prosecutor is going to do that.

I personally read that as being covering "Has had an internet browser installed." Or any other element under the IP stack or from the bottom of the OS on upwards, if one considers the origianal "machine" being a bare, stand-alone PC/mac/smartphone.

Depending on what's not already on there, install a network card or wi-fi dongle or other hardware, add an OS and relevent drivers, then put on the browser (where not already embedded) and everything. Congratulations, you've adapted the device to allow the user to access such 'forbidden delights'.

(Not saying that's a waterproof interpretation, towards the overly-wide interpretation, but the lawyer with the largest balls could probably persuade a jury, for good or ill.)

Considering that computers are already manufactured to include the usage of the Internet (thank you, Internet Explorer and Opera), and sold under that guise, I'd have a really hard time as a judge buying that interpretation.

In addition - and maybe I should've red texted this as well - the adaptation is defined as one that, "upon activation, which may be achieved by, but is not limited to, as a result of the insertion of any piece of money, coin, account number, code, or other object or information..." The notion here is clear that the user must pay the operator some fee to operate the computer.

Most ISPs in the US require you to pay for internet access.

So with all the technology we have today Florida decides to ban internet Café since they might connect to gambling sites. Would it not have been better if the State of Florida had required these internet cafes to pass all there connections via a state server which would make sure no gambling sites were accessed.

But that's COMMUNISM!

Florida needs to move that State Capital from that Northern rural location not far from Georgia to Central Florida.

How 'bout Raiford? It'll be easier to lynch those stupid ass politicians there.

This is a map which shows Southern English. When it comes to Florida, it seems to be found in the Northern Part of the State which is also the location of the State Capital

(Image)

But not in Raiford.

I would think that non-green area which makes up most of Florida would consists of Northern English

lol