The "Nice Guy" and the friendzone, Society's attitude

[The Serbian Empire]

It must mean there is a lot of psychologically damaged people out there.

You're just now figuring this out?

The problem is that they aren't outwardly displaying the damage if one walks by them on the street.

[Dakini]

Oh, I know. They can go fuck themselves. I'm just saying what I've heard. To some people, you can't describe a guy who makes women uncomfortable and acts with inappropriate levels of familiarity with them (or who even follows them around) a "creep" because otherwise, you're creep shaming. These people are idiots, but they still say it.

This notion that I am somehow obligated to teach all the special, delicate little snowflakes how to be fully functioning adults in society is incredibly frustrating.

Yeah I know.

I mean, I know that these same fuckers are the assholes who think that women are supposed to be nurturing and other such asinine ideas, but still.

[Choronzon]

It works against a rather good chunk (although of what size I cannot be too certain of) of the dating field thanks to their attraction to "bad boys". The problem is that a nice guy can't see who is attracted to what type easily on sight.

No. Women are not universally attracted to anyone, let alone "bad boys". I don't even think that most women are attracted to "bad boys" unless you characterize every guy who does something that could be "bad" such as refusing to go to church, having piercings, smoking, drinking, swearing etc as a "bad boy", but then you're just getting into saying that every guy who isn't utterly boring is a "bad boy".

In general, I think it's safe to say that everyone wants someone who will treat them well.

But isn't that usually what it is? "Bad boys" are confident and like fun. They're not necessarily these Fonz like individuals who smoke cigarettes and ride motorcycles.

[Ordya]

No, I was replying directly to the OP. I didn't say that "nice guys" are treated unfairly by women (don't fucking put words in my mouth, that pisses me off), I meant that they should be given more than a fair shake, which doesn't seem to be the case, based on the OP.

Tone down the persecution complex.

I didn't say that nice guys are treated unfairly by women! I just said they're not given a fair shake! Don't put words in my mouth!
I wanted a fight, but I forgot that you weren't the strawman version of you I was mad at.

Mag-fucking-nificent.

Fixed for accuracy.

[Dakini]

I do think that "nice guys" should get better treatment from the opposite sex,

What have they done to deserve it apart from act like they're entitled to a relationship by being nice to a person?

Well, by being "nice" to a person by acting like their friend while secretly pining for more?

[Choronzon]

I didn't say that nice guys are treated unfairly by women! I just said they're not given a fair shake! Don't put words in my mouth!
I wanted a fight, but I forgot that you weren't the strawman version of you I was mad at.

Mag-fucking-nificent.

Fixed for accuracy.

I do think that "nice guys" should get better treatment from the opposite sex

I didn't say that "nice guys" are treated unfairly by women... I meant that they should be given more than a fair shake

Yep. Total strawman.

I think you're done here.

[Ordya]

You're just now figuring this out?

The problem is that they aren't outwardly displaying the damage if one walks by them on the street.

Therapy exists for that very reason. (Plus, it's how I make money).

[Ostroeuropa]

You're just now figuring this out?

The problem is that they aren't outwardly displaying the damage if one walks by them on the street.

Yes, that's why we call them invisible disabilities.

Incidentally I feel the need to point out that if I implied I was ever a criminal badass in the last post, it's not the case.
I was something of the mascot to the culture, if anything.
Fluffy, friendly, etc.
The one who sat on the couch smoking the bong while everyone went about their business and chipped in on occassion with helpful ideas on just how exactly to avoid getting the shit kicked out of you by dealers.
The only times I ever tried my hand at more active crimes, I ended up caught

But I've seen that culture and the type of women you're talking about. I've dated some of them. It's a misconception.

[Saiwania]

Therapy exists for that very reason. (Plus, it's how I make money).

I wonder how many people are prepared and willing to pay for something that may or might not be of any help to them?

[Ordya]

Fixed for accuracy.

I do think that "nice guys" should get better treatment from the opposite sex

Yep. Total strawman.

I think you're done here.

Yes, it is a strawman. As I've already fucking said twice now, I was replying directly to the OP, yet you're trying to twist it to make it sound like it's my overarching opinion on the world--it's pathetic.

[Dakini]

No. Women are not universally attracted to anyone, let alone "bad boys". I don't even think that most women are attracted to "bad boys" unless you characterize every guy who does something that could be "bad" such as refusing to go to church, having piercings, smoking, drinking, swearing etc as a "bad boy", but then you're just getting into saying that every guy who isn't utterly boring is a "bad boy".

In general, I think it's safe to say that everyone wants someone who will treat them well.

But isn't that usually what it is? "Bad boys" are confident and like fun. They're not necessarily these Fonz like individuals who smoke cigarettes and ride motorcycles.

Even then... I know some pretty nerdy people who do one or the other of those and they're also super nice. People who like motorcycles or smoking aren't necessarily troublemakers.

But yeah, usually that's what it is. If you're really boring then people who like to have fun aren't going to want to spend a lot of time with you. If you're not confident enough to approach people then you're not going to meet people who you can then date or be friends with. You don't have to be a cocky asshole who's taking all the drugs. You just have to be interesting (the definition of which varies from person to person) and willing to put yourself out there.

[Choronzon]

Yep. Total strawman.

I think you're done here.

Yes, it is a strawman.

Oh, I see. You're one of those people who thinks that yelling out fallacies without having the slightest clue what they mean is presenting a good argument.

Wonderful.

As I've already fucking said twice now, I was replying directly to the OP, yet you're trying to twist it to make it sound like it's my overarching opinion on the world--it's pathetic.

Yes it turns out that I judge people by what they say, big bad meanie pants that I am.

They're your words. If you don't like the implication, perhaps reevaluate your position.

I do think that "nice guys" should get better treatment from the opposite sex

I didn't say that "nice guys" are treated unfairly by women... I meant that they should be given more than a fair shake

I mean, really, how awful of me to assume that when you said "nice guys should get better treatment from the opposite sex" and that "nice guys should be given more than a fair shake" that you were saying that nice guys are treated unfairly by women. How awful and terrible of me to believe that you actually held the position you claimed to hold.

[Ordya]

Therapy exists for that very reason. (Plus, it's how I make money).

I wonder how many people are prepared and willing to pay for something that may or might not be of any help?

Quite a bit, actually. Most of them, their friends or family made them go, others come of their fruition, because they legitimately want help. Usually, though, most patients work traumatizing jobs (like police, fireman, medic, etc.) others had bad experiences (rape, witnessing a murder, etc.). It's really not something you can quantify that well.

[Ordya]

Yes, it is a strawman.

Oh, I see. You're one of those people who thinks that yelling out fallacies without having the slightest clue what they mean is presenting a good argument.

Wonderful.

As I've already fucking said twice now, I was replying directly to the OP, yet you're trying to twist it to make it sound like it's my overarching opinion on the world--it's pathetic.

Yes it turns out that I judge people by what they say, big bad meanie pants that I am.

They're your words. If you don't like the implication, perhaps reevaluate your position.

Then why are you ignoring the parts where I said I was replying to the OP?

"A straw man or straw person, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally, is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position." - Wikipedia article on "straw man"

[Dakini]

No, but we do have some champions of men around here who will argue that if you pay for dinner you are entitled to her body, and that "No" simply isn't good enough, that sluts owes you an explanation for not letting you inside her.

In fairness, I don't think anyone has said that if you buy her dinner she MUST sleep with you. Nobody has claimed that.

People have claimed that if you know he wants to fuck you, and let him buy you dinner, and then don't sleep with him, you're a thief and should go to prison.

Oh, and if you have sex with someone who buys you food, then you're a prostitute for food.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

No, but we do have some champions of men around here who will argue that if you pay for dinner you are entitled to her body, and that "No" simply isn't good enough, that sluts owes you an explanation for not letting you inside her.

In fairness, I don't think anyone has said that if you buy her dinner she MUST sleep with you. Nobody has claimed that.

People have claimed that if you know he wants to fuck you, and let him buy you dinner, and then don't sleep with him, you're a thief and should go to prison.

Whoever has said that has no fucking clue how dating works.

[Miyager]

The simple solution is to be attractive. And just being "nice" isn't attractive.

There, I said what everybody should have thought.

[Choronzon]

Then why are you ignoring the parts where I said I was replying to the OP?

Because it changes nothing.

"A straw man or straw person, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally, is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position." - Wikipedia article on "straw man"

Which, again, I have not done. You stated your feelings rather clearly. Shrieking "I WAS TALKING TO THE OP" does not at all change the fact that you said "Nice guys should be treated better by the opposite sex," a statement which implies that they normally are treated poorly. If this is not what you're saying, learn to speak more clearly. Don't throw a tantrum because someone had the audacity to judge your position by what you said explicitly.

[Dakini]

In fairness, I don't think anyone has said that if you buy her dinner she MUST sleep with you. Nobody has claimed that.

People have claimed that if you know he wants to fuck you, and let him buy you dinner, and then don't sleep with him, you're a thief and should go to prison.

Whoever has said that has no fucking clue how dating works.

That might have been TJ.

[Ostroeuropa]

In fairness, I don't think anyone has said that if you buy her dinner she MUST sleep with you. Nobody has claimed that.

People have claimed that if you know he wants to fuck you, and let him buy you dinner, and then don't sleep with him, you're a thief and should go to prison.

Whoever has said that has no fucking clue how dating works.

I've maintained previously that people who enter a dating situation fully expecting to reject the other person and intending to do so, but who withhold that information specifically in order to get monetary benefit, are largely just assholes. And it's a thing about intent. They'd have to literally admit it to me that that's what they are doing.
"I know i'm not going to go out with them, but he's going to buy tickets to this thing so i'm going to not mention that til it's done."
I consider this to be a Dick Move (tm.)
I consider it a far more disgusting practice to gold dig, that is, to imply that love is actually present and act as though it is until the credit cards run out.
Both of these behaviours aren't gender specific.

None of it however, ever entitles the person they've done it to to sex.
Only to a pat on the shoulder and a better luck next time from me.
Gold Digging could, in the right circumstances, be good grounds in my opinion for a civil suit if you can demonstrate the fraud actually occured.

[Choronzon]

Whoever has said that has no fucking clue how dating works.

That might have been TJ.

TJ quoting Dr. Daterape.

[The Serbian Empire]

The problem is that they aren't outwardly displaying the damage if one walks by them on the street.

Yes, that's why we call them invisible disabilities.

Incidentally I feel the need to point out that if I implied I was ever a criminal badass in the last post, it's not the case.
I was something of the mascot to the culture, if anything.
Fluffy, friendly, etc.
The one who sat on the couch smoking the bong while everyone went about their business and chipped in on occassion with helpful ideas on just how exactly to avoid getting the shit kicked out of you by dealers.
The only times I ever tried my hand at more active crimes, I ended up caught

But I've seen that culture and the type of women you're talking about. I've dated some of them. It's a misconception.

Those one's are even more invisible than the anxiety disorders that might flash outward symptoms every so often.

[Aequalitia]

The simple solution is to be attractive. And just being "nice" isn't attractive.

There, I said what everybody should have thought.

And be attractive means mostly: Be handsome! And...not all people got that.

People this days don't care anymore about a good person from a inside, but only cares about: Hey, you are handsome! Wait, you work for the government and earns 2500 dollars every month? I love you now!

Meanwhile on the other side: Whoah, you are ugly, but where you work? Oh, just at a small unknown company. How much you earn? 1400 dollars?! Bleh loser, go away from my, freak!

[Ordya]

Then why are you ignoring the parts where I said I was replying to the OP?

(1)Because it changes nothing.

"A straw man or straw person, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally, is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position." - Wikipedia article on "straw man"

(2)Which, again, I have not done. You stated your feelings rather clearly. Shrieking "I WAS TALKING TO THE OP" does not at all change the fact that you said "Nice guys should be treated better by the opposite sex," a statement which implies that they normally are treated poorly. If this is not what you're saying, learn to speak more clearly. Don't throw a tantrum because someone had the audacity to judge your position by what you said explicitly.

1) Actually, yeah, it does, because it means you're willingly and blatantly taking my posts out of context to make them worse than they are.
2) I'm not throwing a tantrum, because I don't throw tantrums on the Internet. (Why would I give cowards the benefit of getting on my nerves when they're hiding behind a computer screen--and no, I'm not calling you a coward).

As for speaking clearly, if you really meant it, then you would've asked what I meant before posting an actual reply or, after I clarified, you would've backed off instead of jumping in farther. You're just trying to back out of it by making yourself seem like the great hero who stood up to an oppressor (who didn't exist, in the first place).

[Choronzon]

People this days don't care anymore about a good person from a inside,

Stop lying.

but only cares about: Hey, you are handsome!

Because unattractive people never breed amirite

Wait, you work for the government and earns 2500 dollars every month? I love you now!

Ah, and how the "WHORES JUST WANT MUH MONEY!" comees out.

Meanwhile on the other side: Whoah, you are ugly, but where you work? Oh, just at a small unknown company. How much you earn? 1400 dollars?! Bleh loser, go away from my, freak!

I sincerely doubt women want nothing to do with you because of where you work or how much money you make.

I think this little display you're putting on is a way better indicator as to why women want nothing to do with you.